Me pretending at musicianship

[Levitat0r]

This is probably a better place to post this stuff than the other thread. I'm sick of talking at people, and I thought I'd try music, even though I'm not at all good at it.

Need to breathe better in the outro. It's always something, and then later something else takes a turn as a totally glaring problem.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

You have talent and have accomplished much. When I record my music, there is always something wrong. What I've found is most listeners will not notice the gaff. We are our own worst critics.

 

[Levitat0r]

You have talent and have accomplished much. When I record my music, there is always something wrong. What I've found is most listeners will not notice the gaff. We are our own worst critics.

That's very nice of you, the perfect thing to say, and I even wish it were true.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I'm no musician, but noticed I do have a very good ear tor what's good my cousin is one through a drummer even he is starting to admit I have gifts many musicians have but never pursued he finally noticed my taste in music now matches his whereas in the past stuff I thought was amazing, he knows realizes I could pick it out he thought it was crap time at time has shown being me correct. His band at the time did a cover of a buddy holly song handed upped the tempo put it on a cassette gave it could have been a hit but nobody. noticed. now it's gone. and he is a hairdresser. minor star had couple of local hits. "See cats can fly".

 

[Neri]

I've listened to some of your stuff and you're not bad. I like your passion, your gravelly vocal qualities and your playing style.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

That's very nice of you, the perfect thing to say, and I even wish it were true.

I am an austic individual with integrity. I do not lie. I also have considerable music training, so I consider my opinion reasonably reliable.

I had my voice lesson today and afterwards, driving into town, I realized that what my teacher is trying to get me to do, is what you do, seemingly effortlessly. You sing with your whole heart and to all the world that might be listening. (While I am a mouse worrying that even the books on the bookcase might be offended by my voice.)

 

[Levitat0r]

I am an austic individual with integrity. I do not lie. I also have considerable music training, so I consider my opinion reasonably reliable.

I had my voice lesson today and afterwards, driving into town, I realized that what my teacher is trying to get me to do, is what you do, seemingly effortlessly. You sing with your whole heart and to all the world that might be listening. (While I am a mouse worrying that even the books on the bookcase might be offended by my voice.)

That's really sweet. I'm sorry I came off dubious. I feel like it's such a struggle to connect with people, and when it finally happens, it's like "Ok, they just got sick of watching me flail, so they decided to say something". I've really never been at such a low point in my life.

Where I am took a lot of practice. I do hundreds of takes, and I am constantly conscious that my problem is that I am feeling and playing the song as parts, but it's supposed to be done as one continuous statement. I was a kid of the sort where commentary about walking and chewing gum was pertinent, and I was terrible at sports, and they were always guaranteed humiliation. Except one time, I remember blocking someone at basketball, and it was someone else's turn to be told that their shot got "stuffed" by someone otherwise incompetent at sports ,and it was directed to them with much shame implied.

So, if you are playing guitar, you're doing something considerably different with each hand, and then attempting to sing over it, and it's really hard to get into a zone where it comes together whole. It takes a lot of practice, and I'm nowhere nearly done. I hear a lot of problems, and just because I came in at the right moment, doesn't mean the phrase closed where it was supposed to. I think this stuff is hard for everyone.

Someone else was commenting on how they seemed to notice me experience an epiphany playing the rhythm to Be Good, and I felt really good about that, because something about it clicked and it came out better than the other stuff I play, like something continuous, and not bunch of jerky bits glued together.

What you mention about singing loud, and throwing yourself into it is a different issue. I used to hang out at an open mic, and I never had the courage to finally play there, ever. But, before I left town, someone told me something magical that helped me a lot. He told me that the goal is to go up onstage and "jump out of your skin". We tend to expect a lot of technical analysis in order to do something better, but the spirit of music is not like that. You need to lean into it like you're taking a feeling and directly belting it out. I followed the "jump out of your skin" advice, and initially found that my voice was total trash and it was a horrible sound. I also found the range was really limited, so I spent a lot of time making horrible screeching noises until my range improved. You get around this awkward stage by practicing somewhere private, that way you're not inhibited by the fear of embarrassing yourself. It's only you that hears the experimental mess. If you play guitar, a capo is tremendously helpful for finding the proper pitch for your voice, because it makes a huge difference. I usually find there's maybe one half-step of give, at most, and everywhere else it sounds worse.

Also, I've found that a lot of the emotive effects that you hear in professional music can't even be done unless you're singing with commitment. It sounds really weak and affected if you're quiet, versus if you're screaming your heart out, it just comes out the way it's supposed to. The gravel in my voice is natural, I did not know that I could do it, and I thought people affected it. I'm just pushing myself, and it comes out that way, and I guess that's not surprising because I choose songs for how I actually feel.

 

[Levitat0r]

I listened to it again and I'm back to hating it. It sounds so much better while I'm playing it.

That's really sweet. I'm sorry I came off dubious. I feel like it's such a struggle to connect with people, and when it finally happens, it's like "Ok, they just got sick of watching me flail, so they decided to say something". I've really never been at such a low point in my life.

Where I am took a lot of practice. I do hundreds of takes, and I am constantly conscious that my problem is that I am feeling and playing the song as parts, but it's supposed to be done as one continuous statement. I was a kid of the sort where commentary about walking and chewing gum was pertinent, and I was terrible at sports, and they were always guaranteed humiliation. Except one time, I remember blocking someone at basketball, and it was someone else's turn to be told that their shot got "stuffed" by someone otherwise incompetent at sports ,and it was directed to them with much shame implied.

So, if you are playing guitar, you're doing something considerably different with each hand, and then attempting to sing over it, and it's really hard to get into a zone where it comes together whole. It takes a lot of practice, and I'm nowhere nearly done. I hear a lot of problems, and just because I came in at the right moment, doesn't mean the phrase closed where it was supposed to. I think this stuff is hard for everyone.

Someone else was commenting on how they seemed to notice me experience an epiphany playing the rhythm to Be Good, and I felt really good about that, because something about it clicked and it came out better than the other stuff I play, like something continuous, and not bunch of jerky bits glued together.

What you mention about singing loud, and throwing yourself into it is a different issue. I used to hang out at an open mic, and I never had the courage to finally play there, ever. But, before I left town, someone told me something magical that helped me a lot. He told me that the goal is to go up onstage and "jump out of your skin". We tend to expect a lot of technical analysis in order to do something better, but the spirit of music is not like that. You need to lean into it like you're taking a feeling and directly belting it out. I followed the "jump out of your skin" advice, and initially found that my voice was total trash and it was a horrible sound. I also found the range was really limited, so I spent a lot of time making horrible screeching noises until my range improved. You get around this awkward stage by practicing somewhere private, that way you're not inhibited by the fear of embarrassing yourself. It's only you that hears the experimental mess. If you play guitar, a capo is tremendously helpful for finding the proper pitch for your voice, because it makes a huge difference. I usually find there's maybe one half-step of give, at most, and everywhere else it sounds worse.

Also, I've found that a lot of the emotive effects that you hear in professional music can't even be done unless you're singing with commitment. It sounds really weak and affected if you're quiet, versus if you're screaming your heart out, it just comes out the way it's supposed to. The gravel in my voice is natural, I did not know that I could do it, and I thought people affected it. I'm just pushing myself, and it comes out that way, and I guess that's not surprising because I choose songs for how I actually feel.

I just listened to it and now I hate it again. It sounds so much better while I'm doing it. Just like how we think we're doing fine socializing, but the other person saw a trainwreck, which is why they got confused and wandered to the other end of the venue.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

Thank you for talking about how you have developed your singing voice. This is helpful to me, to push me to where I should be. It is surprisingly difficult for me.

I also don't like listening to my recorded voice. My voice sounds better from inside my head. But my teacher says I have a lovely voice and we work to improve it. I suppose I should believe her and the very few others who have heard me sing. I am dreadfully afraid of being the kind of singer who is loud and screeches off key and everyone cringes.

I play banjo while I am singing, so I do understand the issue of doing different things with different parts of your body. I have more trouble with piano than banjo, having each hand doing different things, and also when each had has a melodic line like in Bach fugues.

 

[Levitat0r]

That's exactly what I don't do, is all of that classical elaborateness. The composers were analogous to the kind of computer programmer I was trying to be, where they were all wrapped up in the technical details and underpinning. I'm fed up with that life. It never went anywhere, it never accomplished anything, and it never brought me closer to anybody. You don't need elaborate structures to convey a feeling. I respect beauty and intricacy just fine, but that's not what I have burning inside to express. What you lack in intricacy, you can convey with passion.

 

[Levitat0r]

Thank you for talking about how you have developed your singing voice. This is helpful to me, to push me to where I should be. It is surprisingly difficult for me.

I also don't like listening to my recorded voice. My voice sounds better from inside my head. But my teacher says I have a lovely voice and we work to improve it. I suppose I should believe her and the very few others who have heard me sing. I am dreadfully afraid of being the kind of singer who is loud and screeches off key and everyone cringes.

I play banjo while I am singing, so I do understand the issue of doing different things with different parts of your body. I have more trouble with piano than banjo, having each hand doing different things, and also when each had has a melodic line like in Bach fugues.

Then the other really puzzling thing; the way you perceive your own self-expression during delivery is very different from how it comes out. You're focused on the act of expressing yourself, on the "doing" part, so you think you're "doing" fine, but meanwhile what matters is the output, which you're not outside yourself to see. So you go back and watch a video, and oops! You're a big dork. And I actually like myself, and have affection for people who are the same way. It's the being alone part I'm unable to cope with anymore. I remember being a kid and having gone to counseling, and they wanted me to watch a video of myself. I flat out refused. I'd been beaten down and humiliated so much, especially by my parents. I was like "What, do you want me to watch a video of myself for, so that I can feel like garbage?"

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

Well, there's a difference between me sounding like a big dork and actually being one.

I was trying to let you know that I also hear my voice differently when I am singing vs when I am listening to a recording of my singing.

I believe you said that you also don't like listening to your recordings. But it may not sound that way to others listening. You've had several nice comments on your singing. For heaven's sake, there is almost no worse recorded voice than Dylan's and everyone thinks he is great. I think you need to listen to others' input as well as your own in evaluating your music.

I understand wanting to simplify music so it is playable by me. Just because I worked on Bach's fugues, doesn't mean I played them very well. But working on them has a certain beauty and opens up understanding. I am not doing that at the present. I did that in the past.

I play banjo instead of guitar because there are only four strings (well, four and a half) instead of six. My fingers can't manage six strings. My fingers can't manage fast finger picking, so I just have a slow steady rhythm to accompany my singing. I have not been able to figure out how to strum the banjo. I know it is done, but can't manage it myself.

I've also been working on my music for decades, since I was about in second grade or so. I don't learn quickly and it has been embarassing over my lifetime to have people who expected greatness from me (because of my mother's amazing talent and ability). It has been a lot of hard work just to let myself play music in my own way at my own pace.

When I listen to myself, I am listening as if I were listening to any other artist. And I note the problems.

I agree, I have trouble getting the emotion out. I have done it on occasion, quite well. But most of the time, not.

 

[Levitat0r]

Well, there's a difference between me sounding like a big dork and actually being one.

I was trying to let you know that I also hear my voice differently when I am singing vs when I am listening to a recording of my singing.

I believe you said that you also don't like listening to your recordings. But it may not sound that way to others listening. You've had several nice comments on your singing. For heaven's sake, there is almost no worse recorded voice than Dylan's and everyone thinks he is great. I think you need to listen to others' input as well as your own in evaluating your music.

I understand wanting to simplify music so it is playable by me. Just because I worked on Bach's fugues, doesn't mean I played them very well. But working on them has a certain beauty and opens up understanding. I am not doing that at the present. I did that in the past.

I play banjo instead of guitar because there are only four strings (well, four and a half) instead of six. My fingers can't manage six strings. My fingers can't manage fast finger picking, so I just have a slow steady rhythm to accompany my singing. I have not been able to figure out how to strum the banjo. I know it is done, but can't manage it myself.

I've also been working on my music for decades, since I was about in second grade or so. I don't learn quickly and it has been embarassing over my lifetime to have people who expected greatness from me (because of my mother's amazing talent and ability). It has been a lot of hard work just to let myself play music in my own way at my own pace.

When I listen to myself, I am listening as if I were listening to any other artist. And I note the problems.

I agree, I have trouble getting the emotion out. I have done it on occasion, quite well. But most of the time, not.

I think everyone hears themselves differently, if only because the acoustics of your head are different from what the microphone picks up. But I tend to be surprised at how uncoordinated my face is when I talk, and then when I asked here, someone commented; yep, that's what you look like. And as I told yet someone else, I look at it and go "Hrm. That's slightly awkward.". I think other people think "Yep, he's an idiot", because they want nothing to do with me. It's very frustrating to discuss because it's embarrassing to think, here you are 44, dealing with basically puberty-grade problems, but it's also a measure of how the world never grows up enough to stop judging you. It's an objective fact that I've gone decades looking for people to connect to, and can't. I wound up sleeping on the street on Christmas. If there's basically nobody in my life, what else am I going to contemplate? How about bonding with you lovely oddballs? It's an idea.

I absolutely relate to studying something independently of mastering it. As you said, it's a valuable exercise. I find it interesting that you haven't been able to learn to strum. I'm going to guess that's due to the tendency to perceive the strings as very individual things, and you can't get comfortable with the idea of one unit motion that's going to strike them one after the other in a consistent way. Strumming, to me, is the easy thing I find intuitive. The basic goal is to swing the pick with your arm and wrist so that it strikes the strings one after the other. It's just a sweeping motion, and the pick needs to collide with all of the strings. There is a certain kung-fu to it, where you just have to build the muscle memory that does it as one single action.

That's basic strumming. From there, you may need to skip some strings because they're not being played for a certain chord, and that's almost the same motion. If you have trouble with that, you can resort to muting unplayed strings with your fret hand, but that can make for a muted string noise, but it's not terrible. After you can hit all the strings successfully and consistently, the first problem to resolve is the quality of the sound. The beginners' tendency is to twang the strings like rubber bands, and that produces very poor sound. Going back to the kung-fu analogy, you want to develop enough velocity that the strings ring like a bell; more like a hammer, less like a rubber band going "boing". If you apply good velocity to the strum, the pick does not need to have a lot of bite against the strings, because it's more about the impact, and less about a pulling or yanking motion. I don't mean it takes a lot of strength. It's something that you have to work on making an automatic, and continuous motion, like tossing a can across the room. What we seem to have trouble with is specifically that tendency to do everything as parts, rather than as a whole.

It's a recurring theme, to the point where I even feel it's what God tells me. You needn't compare yourself to anyone else. Have fun, make some sounds you enjoy, and if someone puts their head up and tells you they enjoyed it, then it's great to connect with somebody. At this point in the message, you will be shocked to hear I have wasted a great many, many words, and that's why I'm preoccupied with music. To quote the band Extreme, music is "more than words".

 

[Levitat0r]

I just got back from playing at the local artists' shack. I played with a drummer for the first time since high school. I had moments where I had a raucous amount of fun, and moments where all I discovered is that I need to spend some quality time with a metronome, especially if I'm not going to be the deadweight among those way more accomplished. I think I also discovered a cheat for that wholeness/consistency problem. You need a metronome or a drummer, and it does wonders.

EDIT: Incidentally, a proper artist would probably instead refer to "wholeness" or "flow" as having the quality of "groove".

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

A jazz musician maybe. Old time music calls it…can’t remember now. Different of genre of music use different words.

I have the opposite problem. I was taught to play rigidly to the beat, with a metronome and it killed the inner spirit of the music. I spend a lot of energy making the music flow instead of being a march: 1-2-3-4

Tonight I belted out songs and played loudly and even added an occasional strum, all in your honor, Levitator. Many mistakes of course, but something to strive toward. Sometimes you (editorially) have to let some stuff go while working on something different.

Good for you getting out and playing with others.