music education?

[Ihaveaspergers]

I have question for people who have taken music lessons. I play piano.
It is often said that music lesson is very good for aspies. So far I agree. What I don't agree with is much of how music is being taught.
Many pianists are aspies. They took traditional piano lessons and it worked for them. I hasn't really worked for me.
I find that teaching me how to read sheet music and then play the notes is not working very well. I probably need more than just sitting down with a teacher and read some sheet music and play. It's a wonder to me that many aspies actually suceeded with this method.
Both focusing on reading and playing was too much for me as a beginner I think. Some people have argued that this is too much for beginners. How can some aspies do this as beginners?

I guess those aspies also had a very good control of their bodies at a young age. They probably did not have issues with motor kills at all. Perhaps through practice before taking music lessons.

Then how did they learn to see all the patterns in the music? This is something I do by playing by ear. I mean, it's like learning a language for me. Perhaps some aspies are super good at just seeing patterns without actually understanding it. I started to see the patterns in my mother tongue by doing it "by ear". By imitation and making up sentences myself.

Traditional music education forces you to have good executive functioning.
It's a wonder aspies get good at smething by the traditional music methods.
If I am not very easy to understand it is because I am a bit confused myself.
What do you as a musician think?

 

[Trophonius]

I'm musically untalented. I can understand most people's struggles when learning music.

What are exactly your issues when learning piano? Because many beginners feel disappointed at their slow progress, but it takes time for everyone, learning music is a VERY slow process except for prodigies.

The traditional method may be boring, little exciting, but it is the best way to acquire a solid technique from the start, covering technical elements of music. Simply playing without too much care is not as much study as it is enjoying yourself, but if you want to improve you'll have to go through classical studies at some point.

What method are you following? With which books are you working? How much do you practice at home?

 

[Amphilyke]

So let me start by saying I have not taken lessons (so take this with a grain of salt). However, as I am learning guitar, I think I have a bit of an advantage over other instruments, since guitars have a sort of geographical notation system, tabs are very easy to look up, because they tell you which strings to hold, and what fret to hold them on. Songsterr is a website that's also been very helpful, since I can autoplay the tabs and watch how fast the notes are played by following the cursor. Sheet music has the advantage of telling you, per se, which note to strike, but it doesn't tell you how to play it on a specific instrument. Guitar tabs are kinda the opposite lol.

I don't know if there's a similar geographical system for piano, but since it's all laid out in a line there may not be very much you can do there. Still, I have seen some learner pianos with the keys labelled with the musical notation as well as the name of the note they produce. Be a nice cheat sheet for you to memorize the keys. There's probably also got to be at least some programs or websites that have sheet music that you can autoplay, and watch the specific notes you are meant to be striking in real time.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pistachio]

I think if you know typical sequences of notes in piano music, and chords, probably from practicing chords and scales, arpeggios, or just more songs, then it's easier to sight read. But if you're truly a beginner at any instrument, it's more difficult to sight read, and maybe your teacher doesn't expect you to do that, just go home and practice?

I could never learn an instrument just by ear though. I don't know how people do that. Same with languages, I need a textbook, glossary, anything or I'll never learn a language just by listening, being immersed in it.

 

[Fino]

I studied piano in college and it was always easy for me to read and play.

 

[Ihaveaspergers]

I studied piano in college and it was always easy for me to read and play.

did you focus on technique, reading, finding the notes on the piano all at the same time as a beginner? If so you cannot have issues with executive functioning.

 

[Ihaveaspergers]

I'm musically untalented. I can understand most people's struggles when learning music.

What are exactly your issues when learning piano? Because many beginners feel disappointed at their slow progress, but it takes time for everyone, learning music is a VERY slow process except for prodigies.

The traditional method may be boring, little exciting, but it is the best way to acquire a solid technique from the start, covering technical elements of music. Simply playing without too much care is not as much study as it is enjoying yourself, but if you want to improve you'll have to go through classical studies at some point.

What method are you following? With which books are you working? How much do you practice at home?

it's not always the best way to acquire technique. I mean, it works if you already have good control of your body. I had asperger issue ith body control when I started taking lessons. I don't recall anyone actually trying to help me with this. THey just expected that I had learned how to use my body before.
I have always had motor skills issues. And I don't recall anyone being interested in helping me play by ear. It was all: sit down and play from a score.
You only learn from that if you already have previous skills that you learned before taking lessons.
So: piano lessons are mostly stupid and bad!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ihaveaspergers]

Same with languages, I need a textbook, glossary, anything or I'll never learn a language just by listening, being immersed in it.

It must have been a lot of frustration in your home. I mean, you parents not being able to teach you your mother tongue before you were taught the grammar and had text books.
How does that work? Did you speak when you were very young but sounded very "bad" or were you quiet until you were taught the grammar?
I assume you did speak but used poor grammar and got extremely missunderstood. I have heard abou people who couldn't even learn their first language until they were taught grammar and had speech therapy. I have never understood how this works.

 

[Major Tom]

I had no problems learning clarinet, and the various saxophones with sheet music, but the guitar was a wholly different experience. I absolutely cannot do sheet music with the guitar. I learn by watching, or by playing by ear. I think this is because you are playing chords much like with the piano, which are comprised of multiple notes. At least in my case.

 

[Fino]

did you focus on technique, reading, finding the notes on the piano all at the same time as a beginner? If so you cannot have issues with executive functioning.

No, I started without reading, by copying people on youtube.

 

[Ihaveaspergers]

I had no problems learning clarinet, and the various saxophones with sheet music, but the guitar was a wholly different experience. I absolutely cannot do sheet music with the guitar. I learn by watching, or by playing by ear. I think this is because you are playing chords much like with the piano, which are comprised of multiple notes. At least in my case.

You don't like reading many notes at the same time? This is an asperger issue?

No, I started without reading, by copying people on youtube.

You must be a very young person. When I started there was no Youtube.
An imitation method?
Were you also extremely interested in learning The final countdown? I understand that beginners really want to learn the intro. I played it.

I read somewhere that some teachers ask students to focus on many things at once. When you have to focus on how to sit, hand positions, fingerings, the weight of you arms, notes in the score, listening and so on it is too much.
I honestly think it is better to wait with sheet music until a student can play piano a little. It is a wonder to me that people with asperger's syndrom can learn piano when they are forced to focus on many things at once. Some of them I guess did actually learn piano at home before taking formal lessons.
It's so confusing to me.

 

[Senitypy]

If playing by ear and spotting patterns feels natural to you, I’d stick with that for now.

 

[thejuice]

I have question for people who have taken music lessons. I play piano.
It is often said that music lesson is very good for aspies. So far I agree. What I don't agree with is much of how music is being taught.
Many pianists are aspies. They took traditional piano lessons and it worked for them. I hasn't really worked for me.
I find that teaching me how to read sheet music and then play the notes is not working very well. I probably need more than just sitting down with a teacher and read some sheet music and play. It's a wonder to me that many aspies actually suceeded with this method.
Both focusing on reading and playing was too much for me as a beginner I think. Some people have argued that this is too much for beginners. How can some aspies do this as beginners?

I guess those aspies also had a very good control of their bodies at a young age. They probably did not have issues with motor kills at all. Perhaps through practice before taking music lessons.

Then how did they learn to see all the patterns in the music? This is something I do by playing by ear. I mean, it's like learning a language for me. Perhaps some aspies are super good at just seeing patterns without actually understanding it. I started to see the patterns in my mother tongue by doing it "by ear". By imitation and making up sentences myself.

Traditional music education forces you to have good executive functioning.
It's a wonder aspies get good at smething by the traditional music methods.
If I am not very easy to understand it is because I am a bit confused myself.
What do you as a musician think?

I found music education actually made me worse, I'm not joking. I learned most by copying records.and playing in bands. Everything I learned in the class room.was.thrown out as soon as I started gigging regularly. The old heads made it clear what worked and what didn't.

 

[Senitypy]

If playing by ear and spotting patterns feels natural to you, I’d stick with that for now.

Once you’re more comfortable, you can ease into sheet music—it’ll feel less like a chore and more like a way to try new things. That’s how I got into it, and it made a big difference.
There are some great options for music lessons online that mix it up, so you’re not stuck doing just one thing. You can focus on what you’re already good at and slowly add in stuff like reading sheet music when you’re ready.