Musicians And Negative Feedback

[total-recoil]

I was involved in an interesting thread on a music site about how to handle negative feedback. I mean, those of us who write our own material need feedback clearly because music is about sharing creativity with an audience who you hope will enjoy what you put together. Every musician or even film producer or actor is going to get feedback and what is certain is sometimes it may be negative.
Anyway, I had to laugh at one or two amusing stories shared by musicians. One guy shared he spent hours and hours rehearsing a number he was asked to perform in front of a live audience as part of the evening entertainment. His was like a warm-up act. Evidently, he walked out onstage with his guitar quite confident and everything prepared like clock work. Halfway through the song he suddenly heard a girl in the audience say to her friend, "God this is boring! I wish this guy would hurry up and get off stage!" The comment apparently destroyed his composure to the point he himself couldn't wait to get offstage - the girl's negative comment playing on his mind. Fortunately, having left the stage pretty downbeat, an old guy then approaches and says, "Young man, that was really amazing stuff! I thoroughly enjoyed it!"
Another musician reveals he once decided to invite some friends round and figured he'd let them listen to one of his own recordings to get some feedback. He says they were all gathered around and he said, "O.K. this is one of my own numbers." He then played the track. They listened politely till the track winded up and then someone says, "Well, great! That was different. Now, let's listen to a real group. (Owch!)
To wrap this up, I'd like to ask any musicians around here (I think there may be a a few) if you have either positive or negative feedback from your music? Also, how do you go about asking for an opinion and who would you ask?
And my own take on this is I guess I am kind of touchy if I get negative feedback that isn't actually constructive or suggesting anything concrete. I don't mind someone saying they don't like a track but would like to know why specifically, be it the chords, the melody, the bass line or whatever.

 

[King_Oni]

I had both negative and positive feedback with any musical endeavors in the past. If people can't be constructive I brush it off quite easily. And even more easy if it's someone who gives me crap and of whom I know he/she never touched an instrument herself. It's easy to complain and criticize others if you don't have a clue what it is someone is doing. And that goes for any form of art.

And if it's comments online, I wouldn't put much value in it, since comments sections online are often the worst ever. Unless someone is willing to sit down with me and discuss what's "wrong" with my musicpiece I'm not interested in negative feedback.

The flipside obviously is that I don't put much value in positive feedback either, unless someone can tell me why my stuff is good. "I just like it" doesn't cut it for me (it never did).

There is however a select group of people of whom I can appreciate those "superficial" comments a bit more. Those are old bandmates mostly. Back when I left a band (or was booted out, matter of perspective, lol) I went on to do my own thing. 3 years later I finally got a small gig as a "try-out" of sorts. My former band was among the crowd and they pretty much told me they were blown away by my new stuff. That's pretty much all they said and that was nice to hear, without being all "how so?".

On the other hand, I might be way to "arrogant" to even consider something actual feedback, unless it's a technical matter. Music is a form of expression and I willingly use dissonant chords and people don't like it... so what? Bite me... this is the way my piece is intended. But I guess this shows why I'm not a commercial musician in any way, lol. That being said; I'm not really interested in other peoples opinions that much either. If people want to share how they feel about it, that's fine. Even when I'm at the demo-ing stage I'll keep, what some might call tunnelvision, and just go for what I intended. I'm confident enough to know it'll work out how I intended it, and that in the end is what I want to put out; music the way I intended it, not neccesarily music that's full of nice melodies that cater to the biggest audience. If I have only 2 people listening to my stuff, that's fair enough... would I like more, sure. Do I go out of my way to reach more... no.

 

[total-recoil]

I don't know if you're the same but I like my own music and I make material for myself primarily. I have no intention of falsifying my music to try and please masses of people who may be dumbed down to modern rap or fake radio stuff that all sounds the same. I don't wish to be tied down to any specific musical genre or rules but I want to just do what comes from inside. For example, at the moment I'm mixing sitar, piano and percussion and although the sound is pretty weird, to me it sounds O.K. I had originally binned the sitar track as not being good enough to develop any further but then the other day I was playing about going through old material and I thought, "Wow! This is really a nice sound." So, yes, I will be doing this track with the sitar bits but really no idea at all how listeners would react. I like and respect criticism but I have to have some explanation to go by not just "Your music sucks!" or "That's very good!"
I confess to being sensitive, though. Very much so as when you create music, I think it's very private because it's part of you (from inside). However, one musician online taught me that you have to grow a thick skin fast because you will most certainly get bad feedback. This guy said he was once crushed by someone who rubbished his music till he took the decision to write for his own enjoyment and then if other people liked it too, fine. When I started to hear stories from other musicians, I guess there was a funny side. Like the jazz band who were asked by a club owner when they were "going to play a proper tune". There was also one guy who was wary of biased feedback (people being too polite to be honest) so he would play them his stuff and say he had just found it on SoundCloud.
Maybe you will agree it really is so much harder trying to do music by yourself. The hardest thing is maybe you are tougher on yourself than may be constructive - more inclined to bin material too quickly. It's so much easier if there is someone who really understands music who can pass a valid opinion, maybe change a chord a bit or more sustain or even go away with what you have and add something. By yourself, though, you have to try and be objective and also try to develop confidence as well as be patient.

I had both negative and positive feedback with any musical endeavors in the past. If people can't be constructive I brush it off quite easily. And even more easy if it's someone who gives me crap and of whom I know he/she never touched an instrument herself. It's easy to complain and criticize others if you don't have a clue what it is someone is doing. And that goes for any form of art.

And if it's comments online, I wouldn't put much value in it, since comments sections online are often the worst ever. Unless someone is willing to sit down with me and discuss what's "wrong" with my musicpiece I'm not interested in negative feedback.

The flipside obviously is that I don't put much value in positive feedback either, unless someone can tell me why my stuff is good. "I just like it" doesn't cut it for me (it never did).

There is however a select group of people of whom I can appreciate those "superficial" comments a bit more. Those are old bandmates mostly. Back when I left a band (or was booted out, matter of perspective, lol) I went on to do my own thing. 3 years later I finally got a small gig as a "try-out" of sorts. My former band was among the crowd and they pretty much told me they were blown away by my new stuff. That's pretty much all they said and that was nice to hear, without being all "how so?".

On the other hand, I might be way to "arrogant" to even consider something actual feedback, unless it's a technical matter. Music is a form of expression and I willingly use dissonant chords and people don't like it... so what? Bite me... this is the way my piece is intended. But I guess this shows why I'm not a commercial musician in any way, lol. That being said; I'm not really interested in other peoples opinions that much either. If people want to share how they feel about it, that's fine. Even when I'm at the demo-ing stage I'll keep, what some might call tunnelvision, and just go for what I intended. I'm confident enough to know it'll work out how I intended it, and that in the end is what I want to put out; music the way I intended it, not neccesarily music that's full of nice melodies that cater to the biggest audience. If I have only 2 people listening to my stuff, that's fair enough... would I like more, sure. Do I go out of my way to reach more... no.

 

[King_Oni]

I don't know if you're the same but I like my own music and I make material for myself primarily. I have no intention of falsifying my music to try and please masses of people who may be dumbed down to modern rap or fake radio stuff that all sounds the same. I don't wish to be tied down to any specific musical genre or rules but I want to just do what comes from inside. For example, at the moment I'm mixing sitar, piano and percussion and although the sound is pretty weird, to me it sounds O.K. I had originally binned the sitar track as not being good enough to develop any further but then the other day I was playing about going through old material and I thought, "Wow! This is really a nice sound." So, yes, I will be doing this track with the sitar bits but really no idea at all how listeners would react. I like and respect criticism but I have to have some explanation to go by not just "Your music sucks!" or "That's very good!"

Yeah, that's kinda what I was getting at. I like to put my music out though, but I don't care if people don't like it. I put it out since I feel like writing a piece. If I have to change my style and preference just to please masses I could just as well quit doing music, since you should love what you're doing (and even more so if it's a hobby and not your job).

I confess to being sensitive, though. Very much so as when you create music, I think it's very private because it's part of you (from inside). However, one musician online taught me that you have to grow a thick skin fast because you will most certainly get bad feedback. This guy said he was once crushed by someone who rubbished his music till he took the decision to write for his own enjoyment and then if other people liked it too, fine. When I started to hear stories from other musicians, I guess there was a funny side. Like the jazz band who were asked by a club owner when they were "going to play a proper tune". There was also one guy who was wary of biased feedback (people being too polite to be honest) so he would play them his stuff and say he had just found it on SoundCloud.

Anything you do will be met with critics. It's not just music. If you paint, or write (or whatever you do) it's the same. You just can't please everybody. And as long as there's at least someone enjoying it (including yourself), there's clearly some kind of interest for it.

Maybe you will agree it really is so much harder trying to do music by yourself. The hardest thing is maybe you are tougher on yourself than may be constructive - more inclined to bin material too quickly. It's so much easier if there is someone who really understands music who can pass a valid opinion, maybe change a chord a bit or more sustain or even go away with what you have and add something. By yourself, though, you have to try and be objective and also try to develop confidence as well as be patient.

Yes, I agree with that. Being on your own... you scrap so much stuff, whereas, when you're with a group, most ideas stick since others will give their twist to it and make it fit in somehow. It's an interesting experience in that sense to see how others create something you don't really like (but might stem from your own creativity) and turn it into something you actually would enjoy.

 

[total-recoil]

I just wrote a track over 2 days time and then played it for a woman (just a mobile recording) and asked what she thought. She said the track I had put together sounded very nineteen sixties and wondered if anyone would buy into it. I told her it was meant to sound like nineteen sixties music - I had done it on purpose. Most of the music I listen to is Beach Boys, early Santana, later Beatles and, of course, the early Rolling Stones. To get that sixties sound I'd used a synthesised Hammond Organ and lots of choppy chords. To me it sounds great and I'm not bothered about trying to fit into some trend or era. Anyway, I think she did like it but just found it a bit dated perhaps.

Yeah, that's kinda what I was getting at. I like to put my music out though, but I don't care if people don't like it. I put it out since I feel like writing a piece. If I have to change my style and preference just to please masses I could just as well quit doing music, since you should love what you're doing (and even more so if it's a hobby and not your job).



Anything you do will be met with critics. It's not just music. If you paint, or write (or whatever you do) it's the same. You just can't please everybody. And as long as there's at least someone enjoying it (including yourself), there's clearly some kind of interest for it.



Yes, I agree with that. Being on your own... you scrap so much stuff, whereas, when you're with a group, most ideas stick since others will give their twist to it and make it fit in somehow. It's an interesting experience in that sense to see how others create something you don't really like (but might stem from your own creativity) and turn it into something you actually would enjoy.

 

[King_Oni]

I just wrote a track over 2 days time and then played it for a woman (just a mobile recording) and asked what she thought. She said the track I had put together sounded very nineteen sixties and wondered if anyone would buy into it. I told her it was meant to sound like nineteen sixties music - I had done it on purpose. Most of the music I listen to is Beach Boys, early Santana, later Beatles and, of course, the early Rolling Stones. To get that sixties sound I'd used a synthesised Hammond Organ and lots of choppy chords. To me it sounds great and I'm not bothered about trying to fit into some trend or era. Anyway, I think she did like it but just found it a bit dated perhaps.

With people giving feedback like that I sometimes wonder if they understand what they're listening to. It's like letting a random person listen to my heavy metal band and them telling me "the lyrics are incomprehensible and the music is way too loud to get any actual radio airplay". Within the target audience it might be a good product.

So in that regard, it's not only the feedback you get. It might also be asking for feedback to the correct audience.

 

[total-recoil]

I guess the ideal is to win people over to your sound. I myself have become a lot fonder of psychadelic, hippy music which was something Brian Wilson experimented with a lot as well as The Stones. It might well be out of date now but that doesn't stop me being very curious and hopefully helping people understand it. I don't mind if they don't quite understand something but what matters is does it sound good? I am hoping soon to put my stuff on the net and that should be fun, I guess. I have no intention of trying to be popular, just want to do my own thing and share it. Yes, I followed a few heavy metal and blues bands. If you look up Fire Clown on YouTube I used to go to their gigs back in the eighties. Saw them many times performing. I am very open to all sorts of bands.

With people giving feedback like that I sometimes wonder if they understand what they're listening to. It's like letting a random person listen to my heavy metal band and them telling me "the lyrics are incomprehensible and the music is way too loud to get any actual radio airplay". Within the target audience it might be a good product.

So in that regard, it's not only the feedback you get. It might also be asking for feedback to the correct audience.

 

[anne.bc]

I used to write songs. I know my songs suck. My fiance gave me harsh criticism anyway...
I haven't written since. I have plenty to write about now, though.

 

[Mellotron]

I guess I care if someone says something negative about my music. Playing in bands in college I would play shows and get an idea from audience response if people liked the music or not. Sometimes playing to 5 uninterested people was depressing in a way and felt like a waste of energy afterwards. I remember my first gig ever and I was in this punk band (I don't really like punk, was in the band to fill in for a friend) and we played this one non-punk song which was more of a jam for solos. One guy in the audience after that song yelled "hey play songs with words!" and I thought that was kind of annoying. Not that I make my music for other people to like, its just for me, but negative comments sometimes can be a bummer.

 

[total-recoil]

Maybe you're being a bit hard on yourself prematurely? So far as I've come to understand, people have their own ways of writing songs and not everybody uses the same approach. And, more to the point of the post, did your fiance say why he wasn't impressed by your song? Without some positive, constructive detail with the criticism, you can't move forwards. Remember, music is subjective and someone else might have liked your song.
Of course, nobody wants flattery or to be patronised. I don't mind anyone saying they dislike a song I've written. I do get touchy, though, if they call my attempt "rubbish" but then have no knowledge or ability to go into detail. Anyway, if there are people here who are interested in developing song-writing potential, my advice is this:
(1) Listen carefully to music on radio or background to films. Make a note of what you like and how it's played and think about how you can learn from it it.
(2) Be bold and write your song whether it turns out good or average. Come back to it later with an analytical mind and ask yourself how you might make it better (as the song goes "take a sad song and make it better".
(3) Get opinions off people who have some idea and if they say they don't like it, find out why.
(4) Give yourself time because songwriting like maths or language is developed over time. Nobody just learns to write novels or essays in a couple of weeks and the same goes for music.
(5)Only consider songwriting is not for you if you turn out to be tone death, no sense of timing and you just don't like music.
Finally a good indication is if you always enjoyed music and listen to music a lot in private, there is a strong bet you have some musical chemistry in your soul and the secret is to develop your own abilities.

I used to write songs. I know my songs suck. My fiance gave me harsh criticism anyway...
I haven't written since. I have plenty to write about now, though.

 

[PennySings]

Oh, my gosh. I hate that. I've developed enough that I don't mind--in fact, I even like constructive criticism. But 90% of people just aren't going to be helpful. Unless it is their profession, or obsession, most neurotypical people will say very general, very useless things, when you ask about your work. I've probably crippled myself here, but I've stopped asking for now. Luckily I've had some experiences, through school, mostly, that have helped me improve my skills and technique, but that's pretty much it.

 

[total-recoil]

One of the Jazz Fusion/Progressive bands I followed only ever had one mainstream hit. Most of what they have done in the past has been instrumental and I have never heard anything similar blaring out of passing vehicles. Sadly, most of what I do hear in the street is pretty horrible rap which all sounds the same. Fortunately these jazz fusion or progressive rock or even Indie groups manage to make a bit of money performing to a select following.
Anyway, I'm aware it's a complex situation. I think audiences and listeners these days are entirely different from what there was in the sixties or even the eighties. I take the same view as yourself that it's best to enjoy expressing yourself through your own music and not to get too hung up on negative feedback (or even lack of feedback). A lot of musicians get depressed about it, though, and I can understand why. I mean, when Brian Wilson did Pet Sounds in 1966, he faced a lot of opposition, even from people who liked the Beach Boys. I think he was pretty much out on his own with stuff like Good Vibrations which deviated hugely from the regular California Girls tracks. I heard it almost split the band apart when Brian began to experiment with new psychedelic. I can only imagine he must have had a struggle to push ahead in the face of a lot of negativity. And not all musicians had that success. I don't think any of the Beatles offspring have found a home amongst mainstream music, except maybe James McCartney who has a solid rock band and does basic rock music.
A final point as well is I don't see music being used in the way it was in the sixties where it was really a very powerful, mass influential tool. That is, you had the whole hippy scene mixed in with the Maharashi and TM movement and music had a lot of meaning. Today, a lot of it is often just commercial, conformist, superficial material although some non mainstream music is better.

With people giving feedback like that I sometimes wonder if they understand what they're listening to. It's like letting a random person listen to my heavy metal band and them telling me "the lyrics are incomprehensible and the music is way too loud to get any actual radio airplay". Within the target audience it might be a good product.

So in that regard, it's not only the feedback you get. It might also be asking for feedback to the correct audience.