Narcissismology

[Krazie243]

So let's see here, there may be some dispute over whether or not Narcissism is a theological concept. I suppose it depends on how much a person values themselves, lol. But the ultimate topic for today is this: Are Narcissist good people? YES! Allow me to explain:

A Narcissist (not to be confused with a mere narcissist) is someone who holds true to the pure form of the narcissistic ideals. That is to mean that a Narcissist will desire to self-fulfill by ensuring that their value is obtained and maintained. Basically, why be the best of 5 bums when you can be the best of 5 billionaires? Even though in both cases a Narcissist is the best person within the group, there is just something so much better about the second case. Thus, a Narcissist will seek to become the best of better groups of people. Now here is where the interesting part comes in. What if there are no better groups? Well, a Narcissist will make his current group better. In other words, a man will make his buddies better so that he can claim to be the best of a group that is better than the group he was a part of before (even if that group contains within it the same previous members)

As a result of this goal, Narcissists will assist the increase in value of all the people within their local (as a means of achieving a greater superiority) and will therefor be doing a service to the nearby society by enhancing them in every way available to the Narcissist. So while the Narcissist arrogantly perceives themselves as better than everyone, they will actively improve others as a means of self-worth inflation. For this reason, Narcissists are a value to society as a whole and anyone who is a Narcissist can acknowledge this positive effect on society and realize that they are all the better because of it. Not only are they the best for reasons of skill, but they are even better for being valuable members of our species.

A couple things to note: Typical narcissists will seek to prove their superiority over others by degrading them. This is a perversion of the art of Narcissism. Degrading others only harms the maximum superiority available to be earned and thus limits the narcissist and what height he can reach. This self-defeating practice is harmful to society and is frowned upon by true Narcissists. In addition to this fact, a Narcissist knows that it is of far greater value to be superior to a person in their natural element than it is to be superior to them in a decreased perspective. So a Narcissist will NEVER seek to demean other people as a means of obtaining superiority. Rather, a Narcissist will enhance themselves knowing that while they may not currently have superiority, they have superior potential and they will at some point reach it.

Therefor, a Narcissist is a blessing to mankind. The practice of loving oneself to extremes is given a bad name by those lousy narcissists who think they can delude themselves into believing the are better than anyone else while remaining lazy, condescending bums.

So, who would like to become a part of Narcissismology?

 

[Shiroi Tora]

I think a man's mind is his own. I look at actions and in-actions in life as the true measure of the man. The ultimate results are what matter. To love oneself is not bad...it is essential to live and love fully. To strive for excellence, to better the world through your achievements or through the pushing others to excellence (Professors), or to ease the pains of those around you...all worthy causes to pursue.

So long as the "Narcissist" IS better than everyone else around him...he isn't vain...he is self confident.

I agree with you...IF your definition of Narcissist is used.

What if...however...it comes to self sacrifice....such as in Parent to Child. Who is the most important? Will a Narcissist make the sacrifices of self to ensure his child will flourish and eventually surpass him? If not...the Narcissist could be valuable to others...but not to his family. They could be valuable to society in other ways....just not as parents.

 

[Krazie243]

Interesting question. Have you ever watched the TV Sci-fi Andromeda? The Nietzschean race held a very similar style of belief.

Basically, children are representations of your genetic code and how well you teach and raise people. They are basically a purified form of all the things you do for society. So in a way they are your masterpiece. The idea is that a Narcissist parent would put more focus into their children than others that are not their children because their kids would essentially be much better bragging rights. And one can sometimes claim that anything accomplished by a child reflects on the parent. So by looking towards the advancement of their kids, Narcissistic parents would be able to hold to a far greater value in themselves.

At the same time, a Narcissistic parent would be caught in a paradox: Believing that they are superior they would constantly work to be better than their children to maintain that superiority. But at the same time they would be required to put the best effort into their kids developement as possible to sustain that superiority as the greatest parent. But by progressing both themselves and their kid they find themselves 'racing' against themselves in terms of maintaining superiority. While this paradox would exist, it would be fun and competitive. It would result in extremely fast and profitable growth. =)

 

[Shiroi Tora]

Well..the important thing is progress.

I don't watch much TV. I don't know the show to which you are referring.

So long as good results for the long term are achieved...it just becomes a matter of how efficiently they are achieved.

 

[Krazie243]

No one else has any interesting comments?

 

[142857]

A narcissist does not seek to be the best. The narcissist is in love with him/her self. A narcissist believes that they are so great that the only person worthy of their love is themself.

Seeking to be the best of 5 billionaires, if that can be seen to be a noble goal, is ambition rather than narcissism.

In Bl;ighty they would also use the word "tosser" as a euphemism for narcissist. In Australia we tend to prefer the word "wanker".

 

[Krazie243]

A narcissist does not seek to be the best. The narcissist is in love with him/her self. A narcissist believes that they are so great that the only person worthy of their love is themself.

Seeking to be the best of 5 billionaires, if that can be seen to be a noble goal, is ambition rather than narcissism.

In Bl;ighty they would also use the word "tosser" as a euphemism for narcissist. In Australia we tend to prefer the word "wanker".

You are wrong. I love to say that. Especially after you got a decent debate locked out by insulting me rather than arguing. =)

Please visit Wiki and see that not only do they include a section on 'healthy narcissism' and that it is the first subsection of the entire description, BUT that the definition is ultimately the love of oneself.

(1) You say that narcissist do not seek to be the best? Why would someone who loves themselves (A LOT) NOT want to be the best? Your logic is not agreeable to me, I find it lacking.

(2) You say that a narcissist thinks they are the only ones that deserve love? Wrong again. Narcissism is not the love of oneself ONLY. It is the love of oneself more than others. As defined by this site and others, narcissism is essentially 'excessive self love' as the simplest definition. The definition states NO references at all to the amount of love attributed to others. Thus, to say that NO love is given to others is ONE possibility, but not necessarily the factual existence of ALL possibilities.

(3) Putting together narcissist and tosser/wanker is not an appropriate use of the thesaurus. They do not have the same definition. In fact, they are nowhere near (except by crude metaphor) as 'tossing'/'wanking' is not 'love' in terms of what love really is.

(4) I never said that seeking to be the best of 5 billionaires is Narcissistic - I said that as a natural consequence of Narcissism, such a goal could arise. For example, I do not care to be a billionaire so I do not seek that, but someone who thinks that being a billionaire is what defines a person as being truly valuable would seek that out of love for themself. If you love yourself excessively you will make it your goal to have the most of what you think is valuable. Think of it this way: you will give gifts and presents to friends, family and lovers because you love them. If you love them excessively you might throw so many gifts around that they have no room for them. If you love yourself, same deal.

 

[142857]

A narcissist is one who thinks that they are the best. One who seeks to be the best is ambitious. Why stretch definitions when there are perfectly good terms and categories already out there?

Tosser/wanker can be used to describe one who self pleasures, but more widely those terms are used to describe a variety of character traits that a tosser or wanker has in common with a narcissist.

I shall now visit wiki in order to further my knowledge on the subject, at risk of being seen to be talking through my butt, and I shall not take grave offence or have a hissy fit at the suggestion.

 

[142857]

Okay, I'm back again.

From Wikipedia:

In certain social contexts such as initiating social relationships, and with certain outcome variables, such as feeling good about oneself, healthy narcissism can be helpful. In other contexts, such as maintaining long-term relationships and with other outcome variables, such as accurate self-knowledge, healthy narcissism can be unhelpful.[8]

So even a healthy naricissist, which is a term that tries to put the most positive spin on the subject, is very likely to lack accurate self-knowledge. I can see that. Accurate self knowledge is kind of important to me, so I will skip on even the healthy narcissism thanks.

The term narcissist covers a whole range of behaviours and thought patterns, most of which would be best described as negative. If we are simply picking the best aspects of Narcissism and ignoring the best in order to promote an agenda that narcissism is a great thing, then we are being no different to the Aspie supremacists that many of us think are wankers.

I could be wrong, but the tone of your responses seems to indicate that you are trying to goad me. Good luck with that.

 

[Krazie243]

142857:

A narcissist is one who thinks that they are the best. One who seeks to be the best is ambitious. Why stretch definitions when there are perfectly good terms and categories already out there?

I did not say that being ambitious and narcissistic are synonymous. Please read my statements carefully. I'm saying that a habit of a Narcissist is to be ambitious (among many habits) because the more you love yourself, the more you want to please yourself, the more you want to do for yourself, the more you want to give yourself. So the truer the Narcissist, the more ambitious they will be. It is an inherit attribute.

So even a healthy naricissist, which is a term that tries to put the most positive spin on the subject, is very likely to lack accurate self-knowledge. I can see that. Accurate self knowledge is kind of important to me, so I will skip on even the healthy narcissism thanks.

Seems you are spouting cultural inclinations like a robot here. In the same way that the vast majority of people have simply ruled out Narcissism as being good because of a few narcissists (please note the capitals or lack of) you have failed to see my point: Excessive self-love (as the simplest definition) does NOT imply innaccurate self-knolwedge. In fact, the more a Narcissist gets to know about themselves, the more they will fall in love. A Narcissist will seek out the most accurate information about themselves that they possibly can. If they find things that are not to their preference they will change them so that they can love themselves even more. And they will love that fact that they are honest with themselves, and love themselves even more for their ability to discard undesirable aspects of themselves.

To put it simplest: narcissism drive a lot of competition. Everyone wants the highest score, the most items, the coolest car. Everyone has a little bit of belief that they are the best - or at the very least, they matter the most. Feminist philosophers may disagree a bit with that statement but regardless of a community minded approach, even a 'typical' woman will still look to her own needs above another's when only one person's needs can be met (there are exceptions, but very few) It is pretty much ingrained into us from birth - the thing that we sometimes call a survival instinct. "I will save your life if it doesn't cost me mine" is pretty much the same as saying "I matter more than you".

So without narcissism society would crash and burn. The problem is that in our disgusting western society, narcissism is taken to an ugly extreme. The excessive self-love is the ONLY thing these stupid narcissist enjoy. But any truly self-respecting Narcissist would see that the typical behaviours of today's narcissists is not an accurate way to love oneself. So I urge you to begin considering the possibility that Narcissism is not narcissism and that while the dictionary definition of both is identical, the application of that definition is different based on the use of logic or emotion.

 

[142857]

I don't know, you give me a link to research and then you have a go at me for quoting it.

Going on the excellent information in the link you gave me, a narcissist lacks accurate self knowledge. Therefore a narcissist has no way of knowing if he is a healthy narcissist or a pathological narcissist. Only one who observes the narcissist's behaviour can determine that, not the narcissist him/her self.

Of course ANYONE can lack accurate self knowledge, but being a narcissist effectively precludes it.

I'll not hijack or derail your thread further with my ramblings and robot spoutings. I will try to say something nice. Let's not get caught up in the terminology. Narcissism = Self Love, and Self Love is a good thing. And I can say with absolutely no reservation that every time I read one of your posts I can see a whole lot of self love going on. In fact in all the forums I have spent time on, the countless hours of discourse, I have never seen a bigger self-lover than you.

Anyway, my circuits are telling me that I need an oil change. I'll leave you to your self love, for want of a better word.

 

[Krazie243]

142857:

Only one who observes the narcissist's behaviour can determine that, not the narcissist him/her self.

You suggest that a Narcissist cannot observe their own behaviour. This is the misconception. Excessive self love and delusion are two different things. To love yourself to a ridiculous amount is in a completely different field than the idea that you are the best thing in existence. While today's narcissist typically exercise both features simultaneously, a true Narcissist would see the act of being uninformed and delusional as a bad quality and would be incapable of valuing himself if he were to fall prey to it. Thus a true Narcissist operates under the definition of excessive self love but with intelligent application (because Narcissists would value intelligence, and thus desire to have it)

Of course ANYONE can lack accurate self knowledge, but being a narcissist effectively precludes it.

Like above, self knowledge is independant of self love. You can love something while having an accurate read on it or without. Thus Narcissism is possible without delusion. This is the essence of my theory. Narcissism differs from narcissism by separating the accidentally instinctive stupidity of taking it to the level of thinking they are superior by default to all others around them.

Let's take an interesting example: A man marries a woman and is completely in love with her and vows to love her for the rest of his life. Regardless of what temptations come his way, his love is secure and belongs to the woman. Now, the man might also love the woman excessively, but this does not mean he thinks she is the best woman in the world. He could easily know that better woman exist, but that for some reason or another he was unable to have them. Additionally, since everyone has strengths and weaknesses, the man could know that his wife may be the best at some things but the worst at others (logically correct) and thus realize that despite his excessive love for her that she is not superior to all people. Now, replace the woman with a man's self. You now have Narcissism.

And I can say with absolutely no reservation that every time I read one of your posts I can see a whole lot of self love going on. In fact in all the forums I have spent time on, the countless hours of discourse, I have never seen a bigger self-lover than you.

Of course =)
Why wouldn't I be a Narcissist if I put so much work into the theory?
Now I just gotta get a woman to love me as much as I love myself =)

 

[142857]

Why wouldn't I be a Narcissist if I put so much work into the theory?
Now I just gotta get a woman to love me as much as I love myself =)

Okay, forgive me for being a little slow. What you are talking about here is making a conscious and rational decision to be a narcissist, and taking ownership of what being a narcissist is all about. Which would rule out many of the preconceptions about narcissism, such as those in the link you gave me.

Correct me if I am wrong (why do I get the feeling that that is a redundant statement :ball: ).

I would not set my sights so high as to try to find a woman who loves you quite that much. If you find a woman who loves you even half as much as you love yourself then you will have greatly exceeded what most people achieve even if they do find "the love of their life".

Just a suggestion - during your search for the woman who loves you that much, try not to mention "self love" on the first date. Wait until you really get to know her. :rofl:

 

[Krazie243]

lol. I think that if I ever talk about being a Narcissist I'll do it in the same philisophical way I did with you. That way she'll know that I'm not some deluded weirdo.