NT and Aspie needing to improve their communication...

[Cordelia]

My boyfriend (31) and I (26) have been together about a year and in general things have gone well. He's usually caring and responsible. He's never been officially diagnosed with Asperger's/ASD, but he has many traits that put him on the spectrum. He's aware of it, and he explained it to me quite early on. It took some adjustment on my part, but with time I came to accept (and in some cases, appreciate) many of his autistic traits. I listen when he wants to talk about his passions (plants and physics, the latter of which is his job), and I can find it interesting. I've learned how to help him in social situations where he's prone to getting overwhelmed. I've bought him language-independent board games that he can learn quickly and enjoy playing. Etc.

But there are some traits that have always caused friction and I'm starting to wonder how we can come to terms with that. Most of them have to do with the way he handles conversations. It sometimes seems like he doesn't hear what the other person is saying - his responses are usually about himself, or some other topic entirely, which often doesn't give the other person an opening to have a turn to express themselves.

This happens somewhat routinely when I try to discuss my experiences. When it happened yesterday (as I was trying to explain some difficulties I was having at work), I felt like I had to point it out to him somehow. He immediately got defensive and angry and told me that he didn't want me to stay over with him that evening, even though I had been counting on that. He said he needed time and space to chill out after I'd been mean to him. (By the time we had this discussion, I'd missed the last bus to my own part of town and had to walk a couple miles to get there, which he knew.)

I can kinda understand why he wanted to be alone, because he'd had a stressful week, and I don't want him having a panic attack or anything. But I was hurt by his coldness towards me and his seeming unwillingness to consider how supportive he is as a partner. When I bring up things like this, most of the time he says that I'm "picking on him for being autistic".

He also describes himself as "married to his work". His desire to work a lot, and the amount of time it takes for him to stop thinking about it once he's left work, has been impinging more and more on the time that we spend together.

I can accept that I have to be the person who makes the larger number of compromises in this relationship, but the extent of it can feel like a huge weight sometimes. Are there things that we can do to improve the quality of our conversations and make our together time more meaningful? Or am I being unreasonable?

 

[Tom]

What you describe is very characteristic of an unresponsive HFA. Its true that the autism pushes you in certain directions, towards certain types of responses. Its not true they are stuck with that, and some are negative behaviors and should be changed/modified.

For comparison, most all NT children will start off with selfish or illogical behaviors. They will take toys from other kids, want to go where they want regardless of others preferences, cry to get what they want, etc. There is a strong selfish vein in everyone. And it has to be corrected and the right social behavior taught.

Its no different for HFAs, although it will be a longer learning curve. But a lot of autistic people do not critically examine it all and just assume an attitude of that is the way they are. Its my opinion they have it completely backwards. In reality the autism has control and runs their lives only to gratify itself. The real person they are meant to be is buried under it. To be their real self they have to be able to distinguish between logical thought and autistic responses and choose not to follow the autistic desires when it is negative to do so.

Besides basic attraction, relationships need to be two way streets and rooted in a solid sense of equality and fairness. He has several problem areas in this. Not all may be autism caused, but some I feel sure are. This is not something you can fix and putting up with it will not help and may make it worse in the long run. This is on him and up to him to recognize and do something about.

On your side you can share what the problems are as you see it and honestly reassess things if he gives reasonable reasons. Sometimes it is seeking out a compromise. But his 'this is how I am and you just have to put up with it' is BS franky. You also have to be firm and not put up or accept the negative things in your relationship. If you don't fix them now at the beginning it will only get harder later on if not impossible. And if he doesn't care enough to respond you have to be willing to walk away. Your needs are just as important as his - that is the critical point he must see and accept. Giving up on your own needs and happiness in the beginning, just to keep him happy and around is like keeping something alive on life support.

 

[Tia Maria]

My boyfriend (31) and I (26) have been together about a year and in general things have gone well. He's usually caring and responsible. ..... It sometimes seems like he doesn't hear what the other person is saying - his responses are usually about himself, or some other topic entirely, which often doesn't give the other person an opening to have a turn to express themselves.

This happens somewhat routinely when I try to discuss my experiences. When it happened yesterday (as I was trying to explain some difficulties I was having at work), I felt like I had to point it out to him somehow. He immediately got defensive and angry

I am 'NT' & I am sure you will receive some helpful guidance from other AC members who are on the spectrum.

But I do want to share my opinion that I think your bf should make an effort to also be supportive of you .... which means 'hearing' what you say & being interested in you & your well being, as you are in his.

Perhaps there are days or times when he is not able to listen to you talk about your work or other experiences, but then there should be times (maybe during the weekend?) when he could make the effort to be there for you. I understand he has special needs & you make accommodations for those in your relationship, but a relationship cannot be a 'one way street'. One way, unconditional love relationships are what adults should have with children, not what adult partners have with each other. You also have needs, & should have them met as well, otherwise over time you will become dissatisfied & unhappy in the relationship, & rightfully so.

Assuming you expressed your feelings in a calm & rational way yesterday, your bf becoming defensive & angry is not an unusual response, but it is immature. It would be great if he was interested in becoming more self aware so that he could understand & acknowledge why he reacted that way, & work on more mature behavior for the future. If he cannot prevent an initial immature reaction but was able to re-assess the situation sometime afterwards when he's in a more relaxed state & address things with you later .... that would be good.

If he is not able to hear or be interested in other people that will limit other people's interest in him & he may end up with few friends or social opportunities, & that is fine. But it is not okay to be that way with one's gf or bf.

He immediately got defensive and angry and told me that he didn't want me to stay over with him that evening, even though I had been counting on that. He said he needed time and space to chill out after I'd been mean to him. (By the time we had this discussion, I'd missed the last bus to my own part of town and had to walk a couple miles to get there, which he knew.)

I can kinda understand why he wanted to be alone, because he'd had a stressful week, and I don't want him having a panic attack or anything. But I was hurt by his coldness towards me and his seeming unwillingness to consider how supportive he is as a partner. When I bring up things like this, most of the time he says that I'm "picking on him for being autistic".

What the hell?!?! You had to WALK home a COUPLE OF MILES?!?! It must have been in the evening as it was after work & there was no more bus service. So you had to WALK HOME, ALONE, several MILES, in the evening, & he KNEW that yet sent you off?!?!? Hopefully the area you live in is at least VERY SAFE.

If you were my daughter or my niece I would be FURIOUS at any man who did this to you!!!! And if your area is in the least bit unsafe, my anger towards this fellow would be exponentially increased.

Okay he could not be there for you when you felt the need to share your work difficulties with him; he was only able to respond with an immature reaction of anger & defensiveness when you explained that he was not listening or being there for you (versus stating that it was not a good time for that so please hold your thoughts & discussion until say, maybe the weekend); & then he needed space to avoid a panic attack .... so he sent you out into the evening to walk home a couple of miles unattended. Because you were "mean" to him? OMG. He is a 31 year old man.

I am sorry but autism or not, this is just unacceptable because he could have put your safety at risk.

If it is a VERY safe area & was good weather in the middle of the day & you don't mind walking - & assuming you were wearing comfortable walking shoes - the situation would be less serious.

Could he not have let you at least sleep on the couch? If you had a car, or he drove you home, or he called & paid for a cab, I would not condemn his need to be alone & asking you to leave despite your very legitimate disappointment.

But the fact that you had to WALK home several MILES in the evening just trumps everything IMO.

I can accept that I have to be the person who makes the larger number of compromises in this relationship, but the extent of it can feel like a huge weight sometimes. Are there things that we can do to improve the quality of our conversations and make our together time more meaningful? Or am I being unreasonable?

Other members here will be able to suggest ways for you & your bf to hopefully improve the quality of your conversations, but he must be equally interested in doing so because successful communication requires the participation of both parties.

My comments are really just a confirmation that NO, you are NOT being unreasonable. If he were an NT bf I would recommend definitely dumping him for his selfishness, self centeredness & immaturity alone.

Good luck Cordelia, & I do hope your conversations & communication with this bf can improve. And please remember that you both need & deserve to be cared for & supported.

 

[Tia Maria]

I was typing, & just after I posted I saw that Tom had already posted a very thoughtful & excellent reply. I am still fixated on the thought of you WALKING HOME!!!

 

[Cordelia]

Thank you both for your perspectives! I will definitely keep these things in mind.
Tia Maria, about the walking, I should add that our town is fairly safe, and it was late in the day but not dark yet. I was on the phone with him for part of the time that I was walking, and he also texted me to check that I got home ok. (Not trying to make excuses for him, just trying to create a fair picture.)
Thanks again.

 

[Judge]

Kind of sad that he's self-aware of being on the spectrum, yet doesn't seem to want to do anything to improve his relationships with Neurotypicals in general. His challenge is to learn to work on what he can that is in his best interest, and to accept what he can't change. But according to what you've posted, it seems he's not even considering such issues.

It's true we need our space and solitude at times in ways NTs aren't likely to understand. But dang...if he's self-aware he should understand that it can't all be one-way. That's just plain selfish. It's as if he's hiding behind being on the spectrum. And making you walk home...that's outrageous. He certainly sounds bright enough to be able work on his own traits and behaviors to some extent. Time for him to put the excuses aside.

Just bear in mind that there's no guarantee as to how much "heavy-lifting" an Aspie can do in a relationship with an NT, but neither can we expect the other person to do all the lifting in a relationship. That's just plain toxic.

If he adamantly remains "married to his work" and unwilling to compromise with you, perhaps you should consider moving on. All my relationships with NTs failed, but at the time neither myself or my girlfriends had a clue that I was on the spectrum.

Being self-aware now, I look back with much sadness and lamentation for what I might have been able to do had I been self-aware and more in control back then. For most of us, self-awareness should translate to self-improvement.

 

[Tia Maria]

Thank you both for your perspectives! I will definitely keep these things in mind.
Tia Maria, about the walking, I should add that our town is fairly safe, and it was late in the day but not dark yet. I was on the phone with him for part of the time that I was walking, and he also texted me to check that I got home ok. (Not trying to make excuses for him, just trying to create a fair picture.)
Thanks again.

Thank you for providing those details. That does make it much better, BUT I still think it was unacceptable. He is 31 & works in some type of physics job .... couldn't he afford to send you home by cab? After all, he was requiring you to leave after the buses ended so he should accept the responsibility of seeing you got home safely. He spoke to you by phone for part of your walk & texted to ensure you arrived home. That was the bare MINIMUM that someone should have done so at least he did that. But to be honest it is kind of 'high school', not adult behavior, & I think you should hold him to a higher standard because anyone would deserve better.

 

[Tom]

Its very hard to deal with a person who has a mental condition, but hasn't yet faced it and what it means. And if you try and nudge him in the direction he may resent it. Been there, been resented. But I also know I resisted it too. Its something he has to get thru though if he is going to make any significant progress. And its not so bad once you break thru that barrier and accept it. It can be a big relief actually as much of the confusion is sorted out.

You don't necessarily have to take it head on as far as the Aspergers goes. Really that is a task for a professional with Aspie experience. But I think, for your sake you have to throw up the flag and say 'time out' this isn't working for me and this is why. And don't accept denials or excuses. I mean he can do that, but you can also say 'ok, I hear you, but that is not good enough for me.' In other words you may force the issue and its up to him to decide now if he wants to fix this, what ever that might entail, or remain in ignorance. But he should know clearly it will not include treating you as he sees fit.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I am still fixated on the thought of you WALKING HOME!!!

I second this. Any guy reading this right now, this kind of acting for a man is inexcusable. He should have either driven you home or made sure to make arrangements for a taxi to take you home. Texting you as you walk home is not going to help if someone else actually comes along. He first needs to act like a gentleman before he is ready for any relationship. Stuff like that angers me. You walking by yourself at night while he is safe at home. (Normally I would keep going and going and going on my angry tirade about this, but you get the point.) Now lets carry on with life.

 

[Tom]

Cordelia, if you get a panicked call from your bf in the near future saying 'There's a mob with torches and pitchforks! in front of the house'. Just say "I think I know who they are and I am sure I can reason with them. I'll be right over!.... oh wait... I can't. I missed the last bus."

 

[Tia Maria]

Cordelia, if you get a panicked call from your bf in the near future saying 'There's a mob with torches and pitchforks! in front of the house'. Just say "I think I know who they are and I am sure I can reason with them. I'll be right over!.... oh wait... I can't. I missed the last bus."

"Like" "Funny" & "Agree"

 

[Judge]

Cordelia, if you get a panicked call from your bf in the near future saying 'There's a mob with torches and pitchforks! in front of the house'. Just say "I think I know who they are and I am sure I can reason with them. I'll be right over!.... oh wait... I can't. I missed the last bus."

Or just tell him to avoid going up the windmill.

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

I can't improve/add anything to the above comments.

 

[sisselcakes]

My boyfriend (31) and I (26) have been together about a year and in general things have gone well. He's usually caring and responsible. He's never been officially diagnosed with Asperger's/ASD, but he has many traits that put him on the spectrum. He's aware of it, and he explained it to me quite early on. It took some adjustment on my part, but with time I came to accept (and in some cases, appreciate) many of his autistic traits. I listen when he wants to talk about his passions (plants and physics, the latter of which is his job), and I can find it interesting. I've learned how to help him in social situations where he's prone to getting overwhelmed. I've bought him language-independent board games that he can learn quickly and enjoy playing. Etc.

But there are some traits that have always caused friction and I'm starting to wonder how we can come to terms with that. Most of them have to do with the way he handles conversations. It sometimes seems like he doesn't hear what the other person is saying - his responses are usually about himself, or some other topic entirely, which often doesn't give the other person an opening to have a turn to express themselves.

This happens somewhat routinely when I try to discuss my experiences. When it happened yesterday (as I was trying to explain some difficulties I was having at work), I felt like I had to point it out to him somehow. He immediately got defensive and angry and told me that he didn't want me to stay over with him that evening, even though I had been counting on that. He said he needed time and space to chill out after I'd been mean to him. (By the time we had this discussion, I'd missed the last bus to my own part of town and had to walk a couple miles to get there, which he knew.)

I can kinda understand why he wanted to be alone, because he'd had a stressful week, and I don't want him having a panic attack or anything. But I was hurt by his coldness towards me and his seeming unwillingness to consider how supportive he is as a partner. When I bring up things like this, most of the time he says that I'm "picking on him for being autistic".

He also describes himself as "married to his work". His desire to work a lot, and the amount of time it takes for him to stop thinking about it once he's left work, has been impinging more and more on the time that we spend together.

I can accept that I have to be the person who makes the larger number of compromises in this relationship, but the extent of it can feel like a huge weight sometimes. Are there things that we can do to improve the quality of our conversations and make our together time more meaningful? Or am I being unreasonable?

 

[sisselcakes]

I am having similar experiences and had to laugh out loud, not at your expense, but because I can relate. I'm far from an expert, but having been in your place, I have some observations. I think it's great you have been flexible enough to try to understand him and his quirks. Sounds like he's worth the effort. You are not being unreasonable. You have needs and you deserve to have them met. BUT, having said that, you may be able to get some needs me elsewhere, like discussing certain subjects/issues with girlfriends, co-workers, or family members who understand them. About his wanting to be alone, it can hurt to hear someone say they want to be alone because it sounds like the don't want to be with us. This, however, is not necessarily the case. It may just mean they need time to recoup their energy. Your relationship will probably be the better for some alone time on his part. I 100%, COMPLETELY understand the way things are said can come across as callous and cold. That is really hard for me to deal with. Sometimes I will laugh about it because I know he doesn't mean to sound that way and sometimes I actually find it endearing, but not if I'm feeling sensitive that day or if it is a raw, emotional subject. Thanks for sharing. Good luck!

P.S. I just joined this forum, so got so excited about responding to you that I had missed the walking home part. I don't necessarily have a strong opinion about that because I'm not sure how he was perceiving things, but it's worth considering if you are getting your needs met. That's the bottom line. Also, I think in any relationship with someone who has a condition/disability, etc. (I have depression, for example), you have to consider whether the behavior is related to the condition or if someone is "hiding behind it" as an earlier user posted.

 

[Mr. Cat]

He definitely sounds like an aspie.

 

[Beverly]

Understanding that we need our alone time to process things is one thing. If we use that as an excuse not to make an effort to give our partners what they need, that is another matter.

Yes I am an Aspie, yes I have my share of unavoidable issues that affect any relationship I may be in but, I do not use that as an excuse when I do things that hurt or upset my partner. When I do that, whether or not my ASD is to blame is irrelevant, I messed up, I hurt someone I care about PERIOD! I am an intelligent, thinking human being, regardless of what my first, gut, instinctive, thing to say or do may be, I have a brain in my head, I know how to use it and, I don't have to say or do the first thing that comes to me. I can and should consider how it will affect my loved one(s) first.

I know what they need from me and, if I can push myself nearly to the point of having a breakdown for my work, I can push a little for them to and, put my own needs and desires aside temporarily to meet theirs. It's rare that I am already so close to breaking that I cannot push a bit longer that day and, on those rare days, I expect them to give for me just as I will push for them.

As Tom pointed out, ASD should not rule us, we should rule it. We can think, we can choose and we can learn.