ok, I'm the one with Aspergers - but it's not a NT:ND relationship...

[MarcusAuralius]

You'd think my aspergers diagnosis was the reason for the stress in the relationship, and yes it probably is - at my end of the room.
But I've been looking. hard stares into books like paddington would. and what I see is this very accurate description here:

Adult ADHD and Relationships - HelpGuide.org

This describes the utter frustration of ADHD and a neurotypical partner. It describes the gaping void of differences that occur then.



My partner has not been diagnosed with ADHD, but the descriptions in the link above are almost as if someones written a play about our relationship (except they missed the bit about her moving out a month ago for "space!" (because that'll solve it).
Anyway, in the article I'd be the neurotypical one, which of course is ironic because I'm the aspergers one.

But consider this - the gap between ADHD and an Aspergers partner is even wider.
Read the description of what goes on in the above link - and then imagine it at least twice as bad. Well some of you will know that.

And then - realise that her ADHD, whilst it's *always* been there, hasn't really been all that bad until her perimenopause started. And then the low Oestrogen and dopamine just makes the ADHD a million times worse, like a massive magnifying catalyst.
ADHD and the perimenopause and menopause Booklet -


So - what you have at the bear minimum for our relationship construct is
[Peri-menopause * ADHD] versus/working with [Aspergers].

But wait, what's that you ask ? didn't you say she was Aspergers too ? (yes but in denial about that one) - with her photographic memory, maths and triple science A levels, engineering degree, outdoor clothing fashion style, ultra competitive, international table tennis, hyper focus capable, introverted socially witheld poor eye contact traits ? (as a short summary).
Yes - very probably. But she doesn't like it.

So what we really have is :
[Female Aspergers] + [Peri-menopause]* [ADHD] -Versus/working with - [Male Aspergers].

I think the end equation of this is something like {x=0}

For my part, mentally I've come on leaps and bounds since giving up gluten - which blocks dopamine receptors, and exercise helps clear them off (but then fresh gluten protein gets in and does it again). But neurologically wise - dopamine is a massive problem if it's not going where it should or being made when its needed - and that's a problem for ADHD patients too, again making their anxiety and symptoms much worse.

So the "simple" solution would be for the wife to take the *right* (aka - more) HRT, and also go gluten free, and for the love of her and the family - embrace this as the problem, and not live in denial and accept things so we can get on with things.
HRT - That will lessen the magnifying effect of the menopause, and help get us all back into a place of mutual understanding and trying to work things out with a purpose.

But anyone else out there in a complex ADHD+ND : ND relationship and any advice and tips ?
Because I'm exhausted, she's moved out (but only for four months apparently), and I'm just sat here working on things as a single parent now, talking to the walls...

 

[Thinx]

This all sounds hard, sorry you are up against this. Well everyone is different, and have other aspects apart from our neurology, like our levels of security and confidence in relationships, often based on our experiences in our families of origin,for example. Also gender norms in upbringing and ongoing, and personality and so on. My partner is likely ADHD but it's not really a problem to us in getting along, I am likely ASD1, possibly ADHD too but not the hyper kind.

But whatever the reasons sounds like you 2 are not on the same page. Did you think about counselling, with a counsellor who understands neurodiversity? What age are your children? How are they doing, do they have contact with you both? It's good that you are here speaking about this. As there any family or friends who help?

 

[Stuttermabolur]

Greetings! I have been in a relationship with someone with ADHD who is also a savant, and I can relate to some difficulties which made things strained for us, though a bigger struggle were her bipolar disorder and untreated PTSD.

To be honest, I'm not sure if or how I can help. We lasted two years, but ultimately, I think we were just not right for each other. I feel much more satisfied by myself, though we are still good friends. It felt like we both had needs the other person wasn't able to provide, and we talked through each other a lot. She had a need of security, someone who made life easier for her and who she could have fulfilling conversations with. I wanted space, a good friend I could cuddle with and understanding without judgement. I also didn't want pressure and expectations, which is kinda hard to get away from in a relationship.

Several of my family members have ADHD so I might have just gotten used to it, but I didn't relate overly much to the problems mentioned in the first link. I do think one problem is that since she is a big achiever and very ambitious, I always felt like I wasn't up to her standards and had pretty low confidence. You mention your wife being a high achiever as well, so that could be a problem for you too. I have put a lot of work into my confidence since the relationship ended and feel much happier about myself now, but I think it would have helped to work on that earlier. She could also get very angry, which is not something I can connect to since my emotions tend to be subdued.

Perhaps you can talk with her about your confidence if you see it as a problem. There might be some things you can work on together, as you both have different strengths and weaknesses. I don't think it's a good idea to talk much about the autism stuff if she isn't receptive. She won't change her attitude towards it out of the blue. However, I see value in allowing yourself to be vulnerable, and talking about issues without giving them "names".

I wish I could have been of more help, but as I said, the relationship didn't last in my case. Personally, I don't recommend staying in an unhappy relationship. By that I'm not telling you to break up, but just pointing out that you don't "need" to salvage the relationship no matter what or else you'll be alone forever. If you do really love her and want to stay, then make sure to work with her to improve the relationship, instead of seeing her as an antagonist. I honestly see the vast majority of problems as stemming from counterintuitive communication. I suspect there are some truths you are too afraid to name, and there probably are for her as well. I suggest revealing them; Perhaps it's something she's been secretly hoping you would mention.

 

[Aspychata]

It sounds like you miss her, sounds like you want her to take responsibility for some things she is currently going thru? The denial pill is very easy to become addicted to. If l deny all these issues, and go away, then it's not a problem anymore. Perhaps a conversation is long overdue between the two of you about the relationship?

 

[MarcusAuralius]

This all sounds hard, sorry you are up against this. Well everyone is different, and have other aspects apart from our neurology, like our levels of security and confidence in relationships, often based on our experiences in our families of origin,for example. Also gender norms in upbringing and ongoing, and personality and so on. My partner is likely ADHD but it's not really a problem to us in getting along, I am likely ASD1, possibly ADHD too but not the hyper kind.

But whatever the reasons sounds like you 2 are not on the same page. Did you think about counselling, with a counsellor who understands neurodiversity? What age are your children? How are they doing, do they have contact with you both? It's good that you are here speaking about this. As there any family or friends who help?

Thank you Thinx,

well yes on the counselling, for the past 7 years, (from 2016 when - she started peri-menopause but it went undiagnosed until december 2021) then I got diagnosed in november 2022, and the counsellor said she had no idea on aspergers/autism, so I changed immediately to one that is. The wife stayed with her - but moved out on me !

I don't know how much relationship counselling would help with us at the moment - simply because having someone there that isn't on the same page makes it sort of pointless. I'm completely up for it - but if it's all how I need to modify my behaviours (but we are all making allowances or changes just for my aspergers) then that's not a fair way to tackle what is a two-people-make-a-relationship thing.

So yes, my counsellor understands.
Kids are doing ok, and yes contact etc is ok - the eldest doesn't want to stay away overnight, the youngest is doing a few nights a week.
Just wanting to know if anyone here who is Aspergers/autism has an ADHD partner and has any tips ?

this link really describes the difficulty exactly as we are
Adult ADHD and Relationships - HelpGuide.org
(but without the added aspergers for the "normal" adult in the room!)

frankly until she realises that she is adhd and wants to get onboard with it - yes - we are definitely not on the same page !

 

[MarcusAuralius]

It sounds like you miss her, sounds like you want her to take responsibility for some things she is currently going thru? The denial pill is very easy to become addicted to. If l deny all these issues, and go away, then it's not a problem anymore. Perhaps a conversation is long overdue between the two of you about the relationship?

There's the classic point by Tony Attwood - if you put an aspergers person in a room on their own - all the problems go away - because - all the problems are about socialisation...
Yes a long overdue conversation is due, I've been asking her to talk to me for the past five years, and she simply won't / can't / is unable to express herself / doesn't want to / fears something I don't know.

For insight into exactly where we are - this is the best account I've found - and it's a tough read !
Adult ADHD and Relationships - HelpGuide.org

Hopefully someone here has some experience of ADHD -&- Autism relationships and where the easy compromises can be found.
I should have mentioned we had been together for 25 years. IT's only since last june when her HRT medication wasn't enough that things *really* went downhill - so part of the solution is getting that back and right, but then the hard work of relationship repair needs to start. But pointless if her HRT isn't sorted out.

 

[MarcusAuralius]

Greetings! I have been in a relationship with someone with ADHD who is also a savant, and I can relate to some difficulties which made things strained for us, though a bigger struggle were her bipolar disorder and untreated PTSD.

To be honest, I'm not sure if or how I can help. We lasted two years, but ultimately, I think we were just not right for each other. I feel much more satisfied by myself, though we are still good friends. It felt like we both had needs the other person wasn't able to provide, and we talked through each other a lot. She had a need of security, someone who made life easier for her and who she could have fulfilling conversations with. I wanted space, a good friend I could cuddle with and understanding without judgement. I also didn't want pressure and expectations, which is kinda hard to get away from in a relationship.

Several of my family members have ADHD so I might have just gotten used to it, but I didn't relate overly much to the problems mentioned in the first link. I do think one problem is that since she is a big achiever and very ambitious, I always felt like I wasn't up to her standards and had pretty low confidence. You mention your wife being a high achiever as well, so that could be a problem for you too. I have put a lot of work into my confidence since the relationship ended and feel much happier about myself now, but I think it would have helped to work on that earlier. She could also get very angry, which is not something I can connect to since my emotions tend to be subdued.

Perhaps you can talk with her about your confidence if you see it as a problem. There might be some things you can work on together, as you both have different strengths and weaknesses. I don't think it's a good idea to talk much about the autism stuff if she isn't receptive. She won't change her attitude towards it out of the blue. However, I see value in allowing yourself to be vulnerable, and talking about issues without giving them "names".

I wish I could have been of more help, but as I said, the relationship didn't last in my case. Personally, I don't recommend staying in an unhappy relationship. By that I'm not telling you to break up, but just pointing out that you don't "need" to salvage the relationship no matter what or else you'll be alone forever. If you do really love her and want to stay, then make sure to work with her to improve the relationship, instead of seeing her as an antagonist. I honestly see the vast majority of problems as stemming from counterintuitive communication. I suspect there are some truths you are too afraid to name, and there probably are for her as well. I suggest revealing them; Perhaps it's something she's been secretly hoping you would mention.

we're very equal on the achievement fronts, which is one of the reasons we're together in the first place, she got a distinction in her MBA, and I didn't but otherwise - I guess I only made National level competitive sports - so both pretty well up there academically and business and hobbies.
it just all falls down where she's just unable to talk about relationships and emotions - and that's really really common for female aspergers as far as I have been able to research. Add in the ADHD which is off the scale due to peri-menopause - then the whole thing has collapsed into this (description on the link)

https://www.helpguide.org/articles/add-adhd/adult-adhd-attention-deficit-disorder-and-relationships.htm
So, really looking for anyone who knows the compromises that worked for ADHD & aspergers - because I can't find the overlap in the venn diagram ! and until I do - there's not much point in getting back together - so anyone here with ADHD that knows what worked for them ? how do they like their partner to support them - or have you all moved out and live on your own in your own chaos ?..... (ok perhaps I need a more supportive perspective of what sort of structured life they live)...

help !

 

[Aspychata]

Active compromise, not lip service, and if she isn't going to sit down and talk, which she hasn't done for apparently forever, and both of you allowed it to stay this way. So if you can't talk about the issues, there truly is no compromise, aand there is no relationship. There is just the two of you in a disjointeness. The heart of all of this is communication and it's at a stripped level. You need to tell her the HRT has to be sorted out, or this is it. Put down your boundary. Maybe you didn't want to hear this. Sorry. We are all supportive of you, and these relationships are difficult, and when it works its the most beautiful thing. Maybe talking through your feelings here will help you move on to the next realization?

 

[MarcusAuralius]

Active compromise, not lip service, and if she isn't going to sit down and talk, which she hasn't done for apparently forever, and both of you allowed it to stay this way. So if you can't talk about the issues, there truly is no compromise, aand there is no relationship. There is just the two of you in a disjointeness. The heart of all of this is communication and it's at a stripped level. You need to tell her the HRT has to be sorted out, or this is it. Put down your boundary. Maybe you didn't want to hear this. Sorry. We are all supportive of you, and these relationships are difficult, and when it works its the most beautiful thing. Maybe talking through your feelings here will help you move on to the next realization?

Hi Aspychata - to be honest - that's exactly where I am and have been for about 3 years - told her to communicate with me because things were just getting worse and worse, and in the end with her increasing impulsiveness and loss of executive function decided to rent a house and move out.

I've told her the HRT needs fixing - but that's apparently none of my business - so I gave her the feedback that when she "experimented" with double dose that even the kids noticed a difference in her, so it's up to her to assess the risk of "just a little too much", instead of "a little of something to get by, but not anything like enough".

It doesn't help that it's a self reported capability thing to the GP - because any HRT is better than none (for her), so the self reporting is always "better than it was", so the doctor just says "ok that'll do", instead of "but are you back to your best self?" - because that question is obviously - "not in a million years" at the minimum dosages she is on.

I had a girlfriend do almost the same thing when I was 24, she said "no it's ok I'll move out and then we can chat about it and I can then move back", to which I said "no" - "because if you do that, how can I trust you that you won't just do that again in a few years time. If you want to work on it, lets work on it and then you don't have to move out - but if you leave, you've left." She moved out, and was surprised when I said (I guess very unemotionally in my then undiagnosed aspergers way) "no, it's over, you moved out, which bit didn't you understand about what I said"....


So, I've sort of been here before, and yes, it's the same, if she won't communicate and it's just functional for the kids logistics, then that's all she can bring to the table, then I will move on.

Nobody needs being treated like a doormat, and half of this processing I'm going through is actually realising how crap this is for me.

So I think you're on the money Aspychata

 

[Aspychata]

Sorry. Relationships are so difficult. Sorry l was so blunt.

 

[paloftoon]

HRT and any type of medication should be your partner's decision alone.
I would suggest a more natural solution. And you can sign up with her.
www.jewelneverbroken.com
1. say "Simon B." referred you
2. Try Jewel's work course
3. Go at your own pace.

If you're not able to work with her in this current situation after trying or lack of trying things for awhile, maybe it's time to break it off and move on.

 

[MarcusAuralius]

Sorry. Relationships are so difficult. Sorry l was so blunt.

not at all, it was spot on !

 

[MarcusAuralius]

HRT and any type of medication should be your partner's decision alone.
I would suggest a more natural solution. And you can sign up with her.
www.jewelneverbroken.com
1. say "Simon B." referred you
2. Try Jewel's work course
3. Go at your own pace.

If you're not able to work with her in this current situation after trying or lack of trying things for awhile, maybe it's time to break it off and move on.

yeah the HRT is indeed her decision, she didn't tell me anything about it and I was not involved/included or advised of her fears worries anxieties depression or anything, except just giving me the brunt of it - or not as the communication fell to zero. And when I ask her if she's aware that when she took more it worked out better for everyone and even the kids noticed - then it's still up to her what she does with the HRT. I think it's ok to point out to someone when their behaviour is better and more acceptable, and how it's exactly coincidental with their HRT medication levels. Knowledge is power, and it's up to her to use that knowledge wisely.

Effectively she has broken the relationship off by moving out (although breaking off from a relationship where you don't actually communicate is a very small bit of breakage to be honest) - I'm working on my boundaries and red-lines of what needs to be sorted from my perspective if she ever thinks she's going to move back in. and yes communication is up there as a must-have. But that's not really happened in 10 years, so I am not optimistic about that changing now, just because she's had some space.
She doesn't have any plan, idea, or steps in place to use the next 4 months of house rental to actually do any constructive self development. She's floating around in a foggy head of confusion, she says she doesn't know what she wants.

I have nothing but compassion and sympathy for her self created situation, but I have to put some boundaries in place- my aspergers sanity really demands that for my own functioning.

 

[paloftoon]

yeah the HRT is indeed her decision, she didn't tell me anything about it and I was not involved/included or advised of her fears worries anxieties depression or anything, except just giving me the brunt of it - or not as the communication fell to zero. And when I ask her if she's aware that when she took more it worked out better for everyone and even the kids noticed - then it's still up to her what she does with the HRT. I think it's ok to point out to someone when their behaviour is better and more acceptable, and how it's exactly coincidental with their HRT medication levels. Knowledge is power, and it's up to her to use that knowledge wisely.

Effectively she has broken the relationship off by moving out (although breaking off from a relationship where you don't actually communicate is a very small bit of breakage to be honest) - I'm working on my boundaries and red-lines of what needs to be sorted from my perspective if she ever thinks she's going to move back in. and yes communication is up there as a must-have. But that's not really happened in 10 years, so I am not optimistic about that changing now, just because she's had some space.
She doesn't have any plan, idea, or steps in place to use the next 4 months of house rental to actually do any constructive self development. She's floating around in a foggy head of confusion, she says she doesn't know what she wants.

I have nothing but compassion and sympathy for her self created situation, but I have to put some boundaries in place- my aspergers sanity really demands that for my own functioning.

That's bad that she didn't tell you her decision as it sounds like you and her were more serious in your relationship earlier. Maybe you two did communicate better before or it was just more noticeable as time went on. These things are never easy. I'm glad to hear you have found a path that is working for you.

 

[MarcusAuralius]

That's bad that she didn't tell you her decision as it sounds like you and her were more serious in your relationship earlier. Maybe you two did communicate better before or it was just more noticeable as time went on. These things are never easy. I'm glad to hear you have found a path that is working for you.

"more serious" ? do you mean as in, we've been together for 25 years and married for 18 ? Yes I'd say we were more serious !
But what were small traits or inconveniences, the small bits of AD of ADHD, slowly and then suddenly get significantly worse when the HRT and low eastrogen start taking place. And we have had peri-menopause undiagnosed from 2016 until late 2021, and starting the HRT basically on too low a dosage for the past 14 months.
Yes it's all come into focus rapidly and somewhat destructively as a massive loss of executive function and impulsiveness and then stubborness.

Her AD (of ADHD) is the polar opposite of my Aspergers needs, and my HD (of ADHD) is probably the polar opposite of her (unaccepted) Aspergers needs.
The magnification due to low Oestrogen makes what was a bearable relationship - totally unbearable.~ and yet she can medicate and also educate herself about it and then take action herself - if she wants to (but currently she doesn't - because she accepts none of it)
.
I can only educate myself and take actions to help myself and reduce the stress it causes me.
The OP was - what actions have anyone else in this situation done - does anyone have any top tips ?

 

[paloftoon]

"more serious" ? do you mean as in, we've been together for 25 years and married for 18 ? Yes I'd say we were more serious !
But what were small traits or inconveniences, the small bits of AD of ADHD, slowly and then suddenly get significantly worse when the HRT and low eastrogen start taking place. And we have had peri-menopause undiagnosed from 2016 until late 2021, and starting the HRT basically on too low a dosage for the past 14 months.
Yes it's all come into focus rapidly and somewhat destructively as a massive loss of executive function and impulsiveness and then stubborness.

Her AD (of ADHD) is the polar opposite of my Aspergers needs, and my HD (of ADHD) is probably the polar opposite of her (unaccepted) Aspergers needs.
The magnification due to low Oestrogen makes what was a bearable relationship - totally unbearable.~ and yet she can medicate and also educate herself about it and then take action herself - if she wants to (but currently she doesn't - because she accepts none of it)
.
I can only educate myself and take actions to help myself and reduce the stress it causes me.
The OP was - what actions have anyone else in this situation done - does anyone have any top tips ?

Yes, that is what I mean by more serious.
I try to read many posts on top of my regular work and life balance.
So, if you said some things that are normally obvious, I might be a bit overwhelmed by info. overload, but hey I try.
Thanks for those details!
As to your other question, you should not be forcing medication on her. You can look for more natural options that are non-medication. In the end, it's her decision. So remember that. However, if it's unfairly interfering with your life in the choices she makes, you have to find a reasonable way(s) to tolerate the situation or move on.

 

[MarcusAuralius]

Yes, that is what I mean by more serious.
I try to read many posts on top of my regular work and life balance.
So, if you said some things that are normally obvious, I might be a bit overwhelmed by info. overload, but hey I try.
Thanks for those details!
As to your other question, you should not be forcing medication on her. You can look for more natural options that are non-medication. In the end, it's her decision. So remember that. However, if it's unfairly interfering with your life in the choices she makes, you have to find a reasonable way(s) to tolerate the situation or move on.

I'm not sure pointing out to her that when she takes (a higher dose of the very standard medication) 4doses she's human and when she takes just the 2 doses of her HRT she's an ADHD chaos nightmare, snappy and forgetful and loses her entire life/work/fun/joy balance - qualifies as forcing medication on anyone.
Giving someone a third party externally verified objective observations - which given the condition it's arguable they have no idea what's going on - is at worst - sharing with someone you care about the minimum of kindness to help them and ensure they do actually have all the facts to hand.
Trouble is - with where her brain is at - she couldn't tell you what a fact was even if it was on a list of obvious facts.

And all that is polar opposite of where my aspergers likes things to be - so yeah - perhaps I am better off without having to worry about her, and her not having any executive function. Pass me the heartless glass half empty...

 

[paloftoon]

Your partner probably has ADHD, but you need an authorized doctor or psychiatrist to confirm this. So, unless that is you. . . .Sorry I'm having trouble following your posts. It seems that you and her cannot stand each others quirks or "quirks". A few here and there, that's a part of any relationship and finding ways to tolerate and deal with others' differences and how they handle or want to handle things. It sounds like this is a bad match and you need to break it up romantically sadly.

 

[MarcusAuralius]

Hi Paloftoon
Basically its my male aspergers +HD (of ADHD) versus her female aspergers + AD (of ADHD) (magnified by lack of oestrogen)
Both behaviours/traits are polar opposites of each other (I'd say they are more than quirks). I've met a few similar relationships now as I am trying to learn how they all get on - and the main think is they are both aware of it and so both try to work on it.
~ my problem is I have a partner against my diagnosis and so far away from being able to see the slightest possibility that she isn't NT - and so it's all my fault.
As for romance - not a lot of it - as we're both aspergers... and never really has been in 25 years.

So - yeah - it's not quirks, it's bigger than that.