Physical punishment as conditioning.

[Neia]

Hi everyone.

One question I have is: Would being beaten and forced fed food, condition an autistic person to not refuse or dislike foods?

When I was a kid, 5 or thereabouts, I didn't want to eat some foods, but my mother would beat me up and force me to eat.
In time I started not refusing any food that was placed in front of me.

Today, the only things I have difficulty eating are meat (because I hate how meat tastes) and crispy things (because they make my teeth ticklish in a very unpleasant way).
I always like to leave cookie packs open for a while so they go soft

There are other things that I used to do when I was a kid, that I think were beaten out of me.

 

[Xinyta]

That depends on the person. But it's a dang good way to traumatize a child for life. All that does is teach a child that they WILL BE punished for disliking any food. Which is a very dangerous way to teach a child to not be picky.

I immediately think of food allergies. If a parent forces a child to eat food they are allergic to. That's effectively attempted murder. Or forced suicide. Depending on how you want to look at it.

Any child, autistic or not, would be affected by this. This is through and through child abuse. Not just for force feeding you. But also assaulting you for refusing to eat certain food.

 

[Neia]

That depends on the person. But it's a dang good way to traumatize a child for life. All that does is teach a child that they WILL BE punished for disliking any food. Which is a very dangerous way to teach a child to not be picky.

I immediately think of food allergies. If a parent forces a child to eat food they are allergic to. That's effectively attempted murder. Or forced suicide. Depending on how you want to look at it.

Any child, autistic or not, would be affected by this. This is through and through child abuse. Not just for force feeding you. But also assaulting you for refusing to eat certain food.

I did have a close call when I was around 13.

At Christmas time we always visited my grandmother, and our Christmas meal was the traditional (for our country) salted cod fish cooked with potatoes and vegetables.

I always had a bad reaction to the salted cod, but I when I trued to refuse eating it I was told I was being a brat and I had to eat the same as everyone else.

I got a really bad reaction that time, to the point of not being able to breathe properly. My mother freaked out and started giving me all the stuff she could think of to help me. That's when they all finally believed that I couldn't eat the salted fish.

 

[jsilver256]

Well, another perspective: my oldest kid is NT but has extreme food issues. Parents told me "a kid will never starve themselves" but it is a lie. He is better about it now, albeit still extremely small and thin for his age. But there was definitely a period where he was below the 0 percentile and we were desperate to get calories in. The next step was to surgically get a feeding tube in.

We never "beat up" him though. I don't know the circumstances of what happened to you, but maybe it wasn't dissimilar.

 

[Xinyta]

I did have a close call when I was around 13.

At Christmas time we always visited my grandmother, and our Christmas meal was the traditional (for our country) salted cod fish cooked with potatoes and vegetables.

I always had a bad reaction to the salted cod, but I when I trued to refuse eating it I was told I was being a brat and I had to eat the same as everyone else.

I got a really bad reaction that time, to the point of not being able to breathe properly. My mother freaked out and started giving me all the stuff she could think of to help me. That's when they all finally believed that I couldn't eat the salted fish.

It's good at least that it was recognized you have a allergy to it and didn't try to pull some of the strange stuff I've read that neglectful parents use.

But autistic food problem should be taken seriously too. If it doesn't badly affect your enjoyment of the food, then it's just adjusting to it. But there are flavors, textures, and feels of food that set us off that we cannot get around, no matter what. Those can be seen as juvenile, but it's part of how we are mentally wired. It cannot be helped.

So some of your aforementioned issues with meat and the crunchy texture of some food, isn't abnormal. It's things you just find displeasing. And that's perfectly fine. No sense trying to force changes where they don't need to be.

 

[Neia]

Well, another perspective: my oldest kid is NT but has extreme food issues. Parents told me "a kid will never starve themselves" but it is a lie. He is better about it now, albeit still extremely small and thin for his age. But there was definitely a period where he was below the 0 percentile and we were desperate to get calories in. The next step was to surgically get a feeding tube in.

We never "beat up" him though. I don't know the circumstances of what happened to you, but maybe it wasn't dissimilar.

I'm sorry to hear about your son's condition.

My problem was that I just didn't like some foods, they disgusted me. But my mother would put the plate in front of me and each time I refused to eat she'd hit me. She'd say "You don't eat one way you'll eat the other." While she beat me.
In Portuguese to eat can mean to be beaten.

I started just swallowing the food without chewing it, just so she wouldn't beat me.

 

[jsilver256]

Yeah, that's just abusive. Sorry this happened to you. I think a lot of people were raised this way. I can't tell you how often I've gotten the advice to just let my son starve himself.

 

[Neia]

Yeah, that's just abusive. Sorry this happened to you. I think a lot of people were raised this way. I can't tell you how often I've gotten the advice to just let my son starve himself.

I'm glad you didn't give up on your little boy.

 

[jsilver256]

I'm glad you didn't give up on your little boy.

We did take some harsh measures, because we did want to avoid surgery. Which is why I played devil's advocate. What seems like cruelty to a child, is often rational/logical to the parent.

And as for food aversion and autism - it varies across the members here, is my take. Some can eat only one food at a time. Others are fine with any food. My ASD2 son is a much more adventurous eater than my NT son. But sensory issues one way or another are always involved. They just might not be food.

 

[Outdated]

One question I have is: Would being beaten and forced fed food, condition an autistic person to not refuse or dislike foods?

I think @Xinyta said it right with it very much depends on the child. My father tried that on me and it didn't go down very well. I was always a good eater, I'll even eat brussels sprouts, but I won't eat peas. I like them fresh out of the pod but as soon as you cook them they're inedible to me. I also can't stand anything with vinegar in it, which includes most salad dressings.

In my case my father was just being a bully, and even at age 6 I understood this, I used to hang around the kitchen while Mum was cooking and I'd eat all the vegetable peelings as well as eat any other food put in front of me, and go back for seconds if any were available, just not peas.

I later found out that I'm the same with beans, it's a texture thing, so I've never in my life tried Mexican food and likely never will. I love string beans and snake beans but those things they put in Mexican food are disgusting.

At a later date my father told me that if I didn't toe his line he wouldn't feed me any more, and I got belted when I got caught stealing food and eating it outside. But at that stage I was earning a bit of money myself and I supplemented that with a few five finger discounts, I fed myself and fed my brother and sister too so that none of us would have to submit to his style of crap.

 

[Neia]

I think @Xinyta said it right with it very much depends on the child. My father tried that on me and it didn't go down very well. I was always a good eater, I'll even eat brussels sprouts, but I won't eat peas. I like them fresh out of the pod but as soon as you cook them they're inedible to me. I also can't stand anything with vinegar in it, which includes most salad dressings.

In my case my father was just being a bully, and even at age 6 I understood this, I used to hang around the kitchen while Mum was cooking and I'd eat all the vegetable peelings as well as eat any other food put in front of me, and go back for seconds if any were available, just not peas.

I later found out that I'm the same with beans, it's a texture thing, so I've never in my life tried Mexican food and likely never will. I love string beans and snake beans but those things they put in Mexican food are disgusting.

At a later date my father told me that if I didn't toe his line he wouldn't feed me any more, and I got belted when I got caught stealing food and eating it outside. But at that stage I was earning a bit of money myself and I supplemented that with a few five finger discounts, I fed myself and fed my brother and sister too so that none of us would have to submit to his style of crap.

I'm so sorry you were treated like that.

I know now that some parents are bullies. Power/control-hunger bullies. It took me most of my life to realise that.

 

[jsilver256]

I think @Xinyta said it right with it very much depends on the child. My father tried that on me and it didn't go down very well. I was always a good eater, I'll even eat brussels sprouts, but I won't eat peas. I like them fresh out of the pod but as soon as you cook them they're inedible to me. I also can't stand anything with vinegar in it, which includes most salad dressings.

In my case my father was just being a bully, and even at age 6 I understood this, I used to hang around the kitchen while Mum was cooking and I'd eat all the vegetable peelings as well as eat any other food put in front of me, and go back for seconds if any were available, just not peas.

I later found out that I'm the same with beans, it's a texture thing, so I've never in my life tried Mexican food and likely never will. I love string beans and snake beans but those things they put in Mexican food are disgusting.

At a later date my father told me that if I didn't toe his line he wouldn't feed me any more, and I got belted when I got caught stealing food and eating it outside. But at that stage I was earning a bit of money myself and I supplemented that with a few five finger discounts, I fed myself and fed my brother and sister too so that none of us would have to submit to his style of crap.

Amazing. Your food issues seem to line exactly up with mine.

I was fine with almost any food except those made with beans/peas. And naturally that eliminated most Mexican food.

String bean-type stuff was fine, oddly enough.

 

[Aspychata]

Physical punishment is just sadistic. Don't buy into the sadistic agenda.

 

[SusanLR]

I would never put up with any of that physical punishment stuff.
A few push backs and refusals to accept it soon put an end to it.
Some parents would beat a child very abusively if they rebelled, but thankfully mine just learned the physical punishments didn't work.
Talk was the best correction for me.

Food textures and foods running together were a problem for me along with clothing. Mom learned to let me pick what I wore by the age of five.

 

[Neia]

I would never put up with any of that physical punishment stuff.
A few push backs and refusals to accept it soon put an end to it.
Some parents would beat a child very abusively if they rebelled, but thankfully mine just learned the physical punishments didn't work.
Talk was the best correction for me.

Food textures and foods running together were a problem for me along with clothing. Mom learned to let me pick what I wore by the age of five.

My mother couldn't put up with anything I did that would "shame her".

She'd get so mad she would just beat me.

I remember a situation where I had an exchange of words with the mother of a neighbour kid when I was about 9.

She was constantly saying things like "Rita's dad gave her this. Your dad doesn't give you anything, does he?"
I ended the conversation with "Well, at least my dad never slept with his sister-in-law!"

(Her kid's father was her sister's husband.)

My mother was livid and ordered me to apologise to the woman. I said no!

Mom started beating me as she ordered me to apologise. It came to the point that the woman begged my mother to stop. Told her that it didn't matter, that I was just a kid.

Later on my mother complained that I had shamed her so much...

Sometimes after beating me for something, She'd say "At least no one can say I don't educate you."

 

[Cryptid]

There were two things used as punishment by teachers: Exercise and Writing.

My Phys Ed teachers seemed to enjoy making me do calisthenics for being clumsy and slow until I puked, passed out, or both. Teachers, especially English teachers, assigned essays and reports to punish me for being shy and inarticulate, while also telling me that they would fail me for the entire marking period if I did not comply.

Thus I learned to associate both of those punishments with physical and emotional discomfort. To this day, the thought of going to a gym or having to even fill out a form puts me in a bad mood, and I will do almost anything to avoid them.

 

[Neia]

There were two things used as punishment by teachers: Exercise and Writing.

My Phys Ed teachers seemed to enjoy making me do calisthenics for being clumsy and slow until I puked, passed out, or both. Teachers, especially English teachers, assigned essays and reports to punish me for being shy and inarticulate, while also telling me that they would fail me for the entire marking period if I did not comply.

Thus I learned to associate both of those punishments with physical and emotional discomfort. To this day, the thought of going to a gym or having to even fill out a form puts me in a bad mood, and I will do almost anything to avoid them.

I refused to take part in PE exercises I thought were useless. Like dodge ball. I'd rather be sent to do detention in the library.

 

[UFO]

Would being beaten and forced fed food, condition an autistic person to not refuse or dislike foods?

Others have already covered everything I would have wanted to say, so I just add a comment about my experience:

All that corporal punishment ever did to me, was that I learned to avoid getting caught.

However, in kindergarten there was a strict policy, that if you refuse to eat something, they put you to eat it so much that you develop lifelong hatred towards it. It worked as I couldn't eat plain cheese until adulthood (didn't have issues with hamburgers, though). Still can eat only certain types of cheese (ones they use in hamburgers, mainly).

Edit: It seems that "plain cheese" is a type of cheese in English language. I meant to say "cheese, that is so invisible part of cuisine that you don't even think about eating cheese, like with hamburger"

 

[Neia]

Others have already covered everything I would have wanted to say, so I just add a comment about my experience:

All that corporal punishment ever did to me, was that I learned to avoid getting caught.

However, in kindergarten there was a strict policy, that if you refuse to eat something, they put you to eat it so much that you develop lifelong hatred towards it. It worked as I couldn't eat plain cheese until adulthood (didn't have issues with hamburgers, though). Still can eat only certain types of cheese (ones they use in hamburgers, mainly).

I learnt to swallow food whole, not chew the things I found unpleasant.

I will still do that to this day, if I'm trying not to offend someone.

I hate cilantro, but forced myself to eat a stew cooked with it. I didn't feel that good afterwards.

Need to stop being afraid of people.

 

[MildredHubble]

Physically "punishing" me for struggling to eat something was one of my mother's go to "solutions". She wasn't really punishing me so much as using me as a punch bag for her frustrations.

Despite my mother's enthusiasm for this strategy, it never worked. The irony was that I was quite a good eater. Even if I didn't enjoy something I'd do my best to eat it.

But there were a fair few things I had done very definite texture issues with. One was potatoes, and they are still difficult for me to eat these days. It's like potatoes have to be 100% in a certain state, in other words 100% boiled but not on the verge of turning into mash. Or 100% mashed without the tiniest bit of unmashed potato.

If the potatoes deviate even slightly I feel like vomiting. When I was a kid l, I'd start heaving if I encountered a texture that was too unpleasant. I'd be accused of "putting it on", then my mother would get "triggered". She couldn't understand it was involuntary.

Tinned potatoes (potatoes from a can) will always provoke immediate vomiting.

Marrow Fat peas make me want to vomit too.

At least as an adult I can avoid the food that makes me feel awful.

I have issues with fruit. Tinned/canned fruit is an ordeal. I also can't eat bananas or apples unless they have been refrigerated. This is the polar opposite of everyone else in the house who like fruit at room temperature.

One food that was absolutely horrific for me as a kid was pasta. It doesn't appear to have been a texture or taste thing. I actually quite enjoyed it. The thing is that I'd get halfway through a pasta meal and then begin throwing up like a fountain and would feel like I'd been poisoned until the next day and often get a migraine.

Of course the first time this happened my mother got "triggered" as she did the next two or three times. Eventually I wasn't given pasta as I'd imagine sitting at a table across from someone projectile vomiting the very same meal you are attempting to enjoy could be rather off putting.

I don't think using violence towards kids or anyone is an acceptable way of trying to modify behaviour. It's just stupid.