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Psychiatrist are certainly strange creatures

Suzanne

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
So, I went to one for the second time, but it was as if it was the first time! He even put his hands up in kind of despair and said: what can I do with you, eh? You won't accept medication! What do you want?

He even asked me what my health conditon was? I asked: mental or phsycial? Mental he said: so, I gave a list of what is going on and his response was: do you have nightmares? I said: only if I have no choice but to think of my past, then all the ptsd comes forth and so, as long as I do not, I do not get nightmares.

I mean, isn't it his role, to find a way to help me?

I had to say that I need to be registered as disabled, even though that is the last thing I want.

Going to see the dreaded social worker next monday.

I refuse to take meds, because I do not wish to be out of control.
 
I mean, isn't it his role, to find a way to help me?

I'd have thought so. In my experience some of these professionals are really good and others are poor. So it might be that he's just not good at his job.

I refuse to take meds, because I do not wish to be out of control.

It's your decision of course, and so it should be. But for me, my condition(s) are difficult to control so it works the other way around.
 
Hit or miss with psychiatrists. No doubt about that. I have the same bad luck with therapists also. Just gave up and decided to go about it alone.
I applaud you staying free of medication.
 
@Suzanne
I refuse to take meds, because I do not wish to be out of control.

No medications, ever, at all?
Not an aspirin or similar to lower a fever?
Or reduce pain/swelling?

You don't want to be out of control, so you won't take any medication.

You don't believe that by use of some medications you might be able
to gain control of what is causing you distress.

Why do you need to be registered as disabled?
 
I am similar to @tazz. Medication has helped me to keep comorbid conditions in control and restore the ability for rational thinking. Whether or not to take meds is entirely dependent on the conditions, and of course, your own free will and desire.

When feeling disappointed in a psychiatrist though, it could be important to remember the scope of expertise. A psychiatrist is specifically trained to prescribe medication and they typically meet with patients on a much less frequent basis for a shorter period of time once a good regimen has been established. Usually, time with a therapist occurs more frequently, for a longer period of time, and deals with more of the behavioral coping strategies and understanding of your conditions.

No matter what, at the end of the day they are just humans like us, and there can be chemistry between you and the healthcare professional or possibly not.
 
@Suzanne
I refuse to take meds, because I do not wish to be out of control.

No medications, ever, at all?
Not an aspirin or similar to lower a fever?
Or reduce pain/swelling?

You don't want to be out of control, so you won't take any medication.

You don't believe that by use of some medications you might be able
to gain control of what is causing you distress.

Why do you need to be registered as disabled?
Gaping chasm between taking aspirin and psychoactive medication.

What I get is that @Suzanne wants to find a non-chemical solution. I can certainly understand that.

My wife was given 12-18 months to live unless she underwent radical surgery, radiation and chemotherapy. She refused all three and treated herself for nine years, eight and a half of which were healthy, normal living. Had she accepted the treatment pushed on her, she was given a 20% chance of surviving five years. They would have been five very difficult years, if she’d made it that far.

During those nine years, she was chided and insulted by some doctors, but most refused to even see her: no money to be made without the Big Three treatments. She did find a few helpful doctors, but basically she found her own way.

I applaud Suzanne and anyone who makes a serious effort at more natural solutions.

You do a fine job of pointing out the catch-22 she finds herself in.
 
Hit or miss with psychiatrists. No doubt about that. I have the same bad luck with therapists also. Just gave up and decided to go about it alone.
I applaud you staying free of medication.
Same here, gave up on the whole thing and came up with better diagnoses than all of the therapists I saw combined (and yes it was supposed to be their job). By that I mean diagnoses that opened doors for me, rather than shut them in my face. So yeah, hit and miss - and "miss" a lot of the time, in my experience.

I hope you find help that works for you and that you find ways of doing what's best for you in any case.
 
Scary to have to deal with a very real dynamic involving even the most experienced and credentialed psychiatrists.

That some of them truly believe that their most primary obligation to the patients is to throw pills at them. With a reality that sometimes it works, and sometimes maybe not. Recalling just how ill certain medications made me in the course of "drug therapy". A very "hit and miss" proposition.

For better or worse I can certainly relate to how apprehensive this may make some patients feel.

"Kobyashi Maru" ? For some, yes.
 
That some of them truly believe that their most primary obligation to the patients is to throw pills at them.
I don’t understand. Isn’t the primary purpose of seeing a psychiatrist over a therapist to get medication based treatment? They are experts in the study of psycho pharmacology, not necessarily therapy. I don’t understand peoples’ disdain with that.
 
"Psychiatry is the branch of medicine focused on the diagnosis, treatment and prevention of mental, emotional and behavioral disorders.


A psychiatrist is a medical doctor (an M.D. or D.O.) who specializes in mental health, including substance use disorders. Psychiatrists are qualified to assess both the mental and physical aspects of psychological problems.


People seek psychiatric help for many reasons. The problems can be sudden, such as a panic attack, frightening hallucinations, thoughts of suicide, or hearing 'voices.' Or they may be more long-term, such as feelings of sadness, hopelessness, or anxiousness that never seem to lift or problems functioning, causing everyday life to feel distorted or out of control."

"Because they are physicians, psychiatrists can order or perform a full range of medical laboratory and psychological tests which, combined with discussions with patients, help provide a picture of a patient's physical and mental state. Their education and clinical training equip them to understand the complex relationship between emotional and other medical illnesses and the relationships with genetics and family history, to evaluate medical and psychological data, to make a diagnosis, and to work with patients to develop treatment plans."


"Most medications are used by psychiatrists in much the same way that medications are used to treat high blood pressure or diabetes. After completing thorough evaluations, psychiatrists can prescribe medications to help treat mental disorders. While the precise mechanism of action of psychiatric medications is not fully understood, they may change chemical signaling and communication within the brain, which may reduce some symptoms of psychiatric disorders. Patients on long-term medication treatment will need to meet with their psychiatrist periodically to monitor the effectiveness of the medication and any potential side effects."

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/what-is-psychiatryhttps://mhanational.org/types-mental-health-professionals
 
It really all depends on the condition. I am comfortable sharing that in addition to being autistic and a recovering drug addict and alcoholic, my main issue was intrusive thoughts and voices. Extremely violent imagery that was out of my control, and inhibiting to my ability to perform daily functions. Although it took some time, when I finally found the right medication for me, the violence in my mind has almost entirely gone away except in cases of extreme stress. That used to happen all day every day and now it doesn’t. I am extremely grateful for the different psychiatrists that I have had in my life for simply trying to help me.

Ongoing therapy helps me address all of the issues that I mentioned above.
 
I don’t understand. Isn’t the primary purpose of seeing a psychiatrist over a therapist to get medication based treatment? They are experts in the study of psycho pharmacology, not necessarily therapy. I don’t understand peoples’ disdain with that.
Is there actually such a recognized "primary purpose". Or is that just subjective reasoning?

I'm not sure myself. Though I recognize how dramatically different both approaches may be.

In my own case I've suffered at the hands of both a therapist as well as a psychiatrist. So I have inherent biases which may seem subjective to others, while being very real to myself.
 
Is there actually such a recognized "primary purpose". Or is that just subjective reasoning?

I'm not sure myself. Though I recognize how dramatically different both approaches may be.
I think that’s their expertise. Taking a pharmalogical approach to mental health.
 
I think that’s their expertise. Taking a pharmalogical approach to mental health.
That is what it has become in America, but it was not supposed to be that way. Psychiatrists, in addition to meds, also provided mental health services such as talk therapy, etc. Think Freud and his patients being seen 3x/week x 12 years.

I suspect the change has something to do with making more money billing 15 minutes for meds, than an hour for talk therapy.

Psychiatrists can also do many assessments,
 
His expertise is being able to find the correct meds for his patients, and tweaking them as needed. He is responsible for taking over in a emergency when a client totally loses it and becomes violent, or suicidal. He also handles family member requests in regards to the client's treatment plan. He is required sadly to commit patients whom he can't help and l am not going further with that. He is required to tell the police dept, or even the FBI if his client has made threats to anybody including his family, wife, girlfriend, and yes, even the president. He handles couple counseling. He oversees medical student's training, and supervises nurses if he is inpatient or the hospitalist attending ER. Sometimes he receives a client brought to him by police, and sometimes he may need to call police. He may be present in court hearings, depositions and so on. He may even need to defend himself if a client attacks him. His duties require more then what you or l see. Married to one for many years. It's a difficult job. Some do develop addictions, and do burn out from their postion. He also consults with various medical providers who also see the client. He fills out medical charts, endless paper work, prescriptions. So l agree, if you don't like your doctor, it's best to switch to another one.
 
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I understand what Suzanne is saying in some regards as a family member feels the same, and I relate in other ways as well. I will explain, but it will have to be very lengthy as it is one of the rare triggering topics for I and family. Thus, I will have to create two posts for this very important topic for us at home here...

Psychiatrists and other medical professionals may often assume everyone who sees them are seeing them for the same reason, to get some standard treatment. And they also assume unfairly that everyone who sees them can be cured by them or will be bettered by them. Wrong assumptions!

How many patients die or have worsened or static conditions in their care? This part of medical science or medical practice we rarely talk about unless there is death or severe injury involved that can be easily apparent or proved to be caused by a medical provider. Even in those cases, to get to that point of admittance of medical wrong the victim has to go often through months or years of medical posturing, denials, patient blaming, silence or legal action .

Many medical providers may be trained to act as if they have the answers or that the patient is beneath them in some way, and thus they may seem to get away with more maltreatment or poor bedside manner in dealings with us. It sometimes is partly because they have often more power, social standing, and as they have the higher-up people and systems behind them to protect them. Their malpractice insurance helps too, and they have often more resources to fight things.

Now, also take into consideration that not all professionals get into fields because they are really caring, ethical or really competent. Or with regards to the latter, they may be good with book knowledge but not be good at looking beneath the surface or individualizing care. Many other caring and wise professionals though may be quite the opposite there, but even in their cases they may feel their hands are tied because of protocols they must adhere too, insurance regulations, and they may feel like admitting mistakes will be bad for business or create further lawsuit risk.

I can empathize with many of those neutral, good, great or outstanding professionals though who put in the time, effort and money to get where they got, in a litigious society and where we can sometimes hold them to impossible standards in knowing everything and for coming up with the right answers or treatment promptly or without some setback. However, other professionals may get into their fields more for money, status, power or ego, with less concern for providing good or great service or treatment for the client or patient, as quantity of patients may mean more than giving quality service. Non-professionals too have the great and poor workers though. But, we must hold medical people to higher standards, as life and death and condition worsening can be at stake if we settle for bad attitude and service.

But, back to Suzanne's post, what if the patient went there for evaluation only, or to help them in a potential disability case? Why is this seen as wrong? The patient must look out for their medical well being and not do things just to please the others. My now wife, for instance, had over forty medical experience failures over about twenty five years, with only about five somewhat Ok ones she said, starting at age six, with numerous wrong diagnoses or incomplete ones, numerous in-patient hospitalizations, and/or numerous unbearable side effects and symptoms from each medical experience, with the five others though at least seeming to care, listen or want to try something different.

In her case, it was because most refused to consider the obvious condition or need or want to dig deeper, wanting to just pass down prior diagnoses, refuse to accept her input, or wanting to give the same failed treatments. Severe ADHD she likely had all those years since childhood, but instead was diagnosed either as BiPolar, Borderline Personality, or GAD, the latter though she likely had at least, besides the undiagnosed ADHD all those years. She later developed severe PTSD and severe medical fears and anxiety from all the mentioned.

Do you think the medical people in her life ever would want to admit they were giving her wrong diagnoses or treatments that made her conditions prolong or worse? She never felt validated by them or that they really were trying to get to the main source of what condition she really could just have instead. Women often are given emotional, anxiety, depressive and/or personality condition diagnoses, instead of ADHD or Autism. In her eyes, the medical people either wanted to assume things, see her quickly to prescribe something to get more long term business or pass down past diagnoses because of being lazy or not wanting to go against that, not caring if past similar treatments failed, just wanting to start over again, and they certainly did not seem to want to try new approaches or individualize care.

Psychiatrists do not have to just give medications. They can evaluate, verify a diagnosis, or to give a new diagnosis upon getting enough information and through observation. Sometimes the patient needs this before a medication or treatment is given as otherwise the wrong treatment can be given if they just treat the signs and symptoms. The cause of the signs and symptoms could be genetic or environmental caused. Also, a doctor should be aware of all patient past treatment sensitivities first, and not dictate some general treatment. (Continued on next post).
 
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I realize psychiatrists only usually have so much time for the patient, but for new patients it is imperative to know the situation well through important probing and relevant questions to the patient. Unfortunately many doctors do not do this, but make assumptions and decisions too soon based on quick inspection or without asking the right things, to what the patient wants or needs. And patients may mainly just need a formal evaluation first, to see if they can feel comfort with the medical provider's views and recommendations first.

Also, for the disabled or for such applicants who may apply for benefits, the medical community often does not want to get involved there if they think the patient mostly needs reports. It is partially likely because it is too much work for them to fill out the government medical forms, or because they worry the patient may not want long term care then with them. Also,it may not be best for their reputation if the patient says none of their treatments may be suitable for them, or if a disabled patient does not do better under their care.

How many psychiatrists or other doctors will ever write in a report that the condition is permanent, chronic and poor prognosis, even if the facts lead to that? There is nothing in it for them to be truthful like that. Or they may think they are some huge miracle worker and fix everything, or be too proud to admit they can not help. Sometimes patients need that truth instead of hidden lies to trust doctors, to reduce medical anxieties, and yes, to get benefits. Sometimes that is validating the patient for all they went through and for all the adversity they face.

Patients have a right to get just either a second medical opinion or a diagnosis first-- without treatment expectations--if they need to see the medical person's findings first to see if they agree or not, or if there is no treatment that can reasonably better their medical situation if either overlapping conditions are involved, past such treatments failed, as bettering one condition or sign and symptoms could worsen others, or if the treatment would be such to not really help the main issues the patient needed to be helped, but was given as they specialized in that or to satisfy insurance or legality fears..

Sometimes patients see psychiatrists too just to feel medically heard as past attempts failed, and to find one that can be worked with. Not all conditions require treatment, but sometimes insurance or government bureaucracy requires an MD and treatment to be involved. That puts pressure on the patient to do so or else you have no case. The doctor should not assume the reason the visit was scheduled, but inquire and then refer to other professional if need be, to make the right decisions there, instead of acting like the patient did wrong.

In the original poster's case, it is certainly fair for her to just want a medical opinion, and to see if this could help with a disability case. If she did not want medications for any reason, that is her right. If Autism is the diagnosis or expected one, since when are medications required for that? Now, if the psychiatrist says, " Well, I only do evaluations with some sort of treatment, and I do not get involved with disability cases", as many doctors look down on such persons, that doctor, if ethical,should refer that patient elsewhere, not act like the patient was unreasonable.

The medical situations that usually fall through the cracks are the ones where severe disability is involved and where the patient cannot either handle the rigid medical and government system protocols, policies or procedures and those people who assumes their treatments will only help but not hurt. For mild and moderate cases, perhaps, that is a reasonable assumption that some treatment could better things, but sometimes the severer and chronic disability cases or where genetics is mostly involved, other nonstandard solutions are needed.

True care and reasonable accommodation could involve for instance a thorough doctor diagnosing that condition in the patient that may have been overlooked by others, documenting then their functional and day-to-day limitations, to bring the patient the relief that way, asking the patient how they can be helped and truly listening there as each patient can be different, with that doctor then carefully considering that to benefit the patient.

I can just say for many disability applicants and beneficiaries, those with chronic conditions affecting them in many ways, their worries are often just as much about getting those needed benefits and maintaining them, as without such they could be forced to do something they cannot do, leading to worsened health. Tell a person who is about to live on the streets or that has no food or shelter or who fears that all could be gone without getting or maintaining those benefits that they should just accept medical negligence, lack of empathy, rigid protocols , dragged out appointments and inaccurate or incomplete diagnoses, reports, and treatments, and of course the anxieties in that patient can skyrocket.

Does the medical community know or care that the SSA bureaucracy will nitpick every detail, regarding such diagnostics, reports and treatments and try to spin that to justify denial? That could mean the difference between a patient getting benefits or not, and being able to abide by a treatment or not, and whether beneficiaries already getting disability benefits will be no longer receiving such or not. If we do not abide by medical recommended treatments, the SSA can say we did not cooperate, so it is very important what the diagnosis and treatment is.

So, for any such doctor to be so apathetic to such a situation, or to be so assuming when we walk in the door what we want or need , without probing further or be willing to individualize things more, we can start fearing medical people more and more, or need things done more our way than theirs. I guess what I am saying is, for every great doctor out there there is at least one that can do better. Not all people will ever desire or be able to be integrated with society to typical functional levels, regardless of treatment which may even worsen things, and in those cases and others, the doctor needs to be more understanding and flexible, putting the benefits of the patient first.

Traditional medical people won't even often consider alternative treatments, for those patients wanting or needing that, based on their numerous sensitivities or past traumatic experiences, so for those who want or need that, it's often their way or the highway according to such MDs. So in this case a psychologist might be best for those who want non-med treatment with evaluation.
 
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@1ForAll

Excellent explanation of a very complicated subject. And as you already stated, often times, any medical doctor does not want to go back and say misdiagnosis on the last provider, because that's a lot more issues to deal with, it's easier to perpetuate the existing incorrect dx.
 

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