Puzzled about friendship

[enigma]

I have this friend whom I love very much. Nothing romantical. She's not been 100% explicit about it, but she has told me recently she would likely classify AS. That didn't come as a surprise to me. I've known her way over 10 years and been in closer contact with her for five, and I've suspected some sort of ASD for over four years.

We've had major communication issues and other problems over the years, we made a huge mistake writing each other pm's and got everything twisted bad, nowadays we talk on the phone and it's much better even if we don't always understand each other. Nearly all contact is by my initiative.

I've read pretty much everything I can find on AS (still studying) and I can cope with most of what I'm encountering with her, but with my NT brain I still can't figure this out and nothing I've read on the Internet has helped me so far:

She says she's a hermit by her own choice and totally content with it. She says she doesn't 'need' friends as such. She says talking to people at work and posting on bb's is enough social contact outside family. She recently said she doesn't attach to people, and that upset me because I love her (which then hurt her feelings *sad*). If asked she doesn't even seem to be sure she wants this friendship and can't really tell what she's getting from this. The fact that I love her seems to bother her somewhat. Still, she has constantly made every effort to keep my friendship and to meet my needs (which she often misinterprets but anyway). If I lose confidence due to failed communication she comes to rescue by making initiative or hugging me. When I'm not well she's the only one who actually asks how I'm doing. I mean, she makes huge effort to make this work! This seeming discrepancy baffles me. Had she not said to the contrary, I'd have been certain she loved me - in her own way.

I've tried discussing this with her but we always seem to end up in 'does not compute' -type of dead ends. I'm just utterly confused. And hurting. Can you help me understand?

I try so hard to meet her at least half way. I get criticised a lot and I get hardly any positive feedback... I'm falling short and it makes me sad. But I'm not giving up. I try to learn how to make this work. It just feels like my brain is not up to it, it gets overwhelming trying to put things together.

 

[Dragon's Tooth]

That is an aspie's trait. I've had trouble with friends with this exact problem in the past.

When a normal person chills out after work they usually do social things like go to a club or have a beer with mates or what ever. Its usually with people they like. This is an extroverted trait. That means generally most normal people will recharge their batteries by going and letting loose with their mates. Not all normal people do this but the overwhelming majority do.

Aspie's people are usually introverted which means they recharge from being alone. They recharge their batteries usually by sitting in a quiet corner doing something like reading a book, doing a craft etc. Or at least that is what I do and I have found literature that supports this as an asperger's trait in the past. Even my psychologist has acknowledged this as an asperger's trait.

The problem that happens is that normal people can't relate to this form of recharging. Their brains think it is somehow wrong and can't comprehend it. No there is nothing wrong with either side of the argument, they are both legit. You have to understand that your friend gets her energy back from something that is different to you.

Because normal people find this hard to understand Aspie's people can push away normal people. I have a massive problem at present where I expect that my friendships will not last and I will eventually do something like be too honest and offend anyone I'm friends with. So I naturally push people away. The only person I don't get that with is my husband. This comes from a lifetime of people judging me negatively because of my aspie's traits. Not all people like it when they get honesty for instance. They claim they like it but when they are faced with it they can't cope. Or I fail to read how to react to people and they mistake that for being rude or whatever and that is how I am judged. Again not really my fault but in today's society it is easier to judge from a distance than get close and understand.

It maybe your friend as a coping mechanism pushes people away before they can hurt her. It doesn't mean she doesn't want to be friends it just means that the anxieties and social awkwardness that goes with friendships might end up being too overwhelming or painful (feeling like you are judged harshly and you don't know why for instance). It might be easier to avoid the situation or get in first so to speak.

You have to remember that if she needs space that's not a personal thing, that's just an introvert thing. I generally like to have time to myself then when I'm ready I let other people know I'm up for social interaction. Because aspie's can't process social interaction like everyone else it can be quite an effort to be in social situations and I find I personally get worn out very fast especially when I am in a room full of people I don't know (which leads to less desirable social traits stepping to the forefront). There is a whole swirl of social anxiety going on behind the scenes which I think a lot of us get good at hiding.

Also pushing the matter for an explanation could be a stressor for her. She might not know why she does it and therefore can't explain it. If someone was pressuring me to explain things I didn't understand why I would get a bit stressed.

I hope this helps.

 

[epath13]

If this friendship is really important to you, you can try not too take it too personally. Some people on the spectrum not sure what they feel, what they want especially when it comes to relationships. Emotions can be very confusing, I personally had to sort of "artificially" identify most of them since I was a kid and it hasn't become much easier when I got older. I found my own way to deal with it, but it's definitely not for everyone sometimes people on the spectrum also need space, I mean a lot of it. For me and both of my kids, it's purely sensory issue. I know, I can't really compare friendship with parent-child relationship, but I think some parents have similar issues with their children on the spectrum sometimes. Sometimes parents get upset when their Autistic children don't pay attention to them, don't give the kind of "standard" love they've been expecting and it's understandable, but in those situations it's very important to stay patient and loving. If your friend isn't very articulate or understanding about what's happening in her mind, try to be patient with her and pay careful attention to what she's saying but also don't stop expressing your concerns either, but try not to get upset if you don't get the response you've expected. I know, sometimes it's not easy to be in relationships with people on the spectrum, but you know, for us it's not easy either hang in there and if you really care about her, all you can do is to be patient, but also try to focus more on positive moments that you both are having together and learn from the negative hope, this helps you a little

 

[enigma]

Thanks for your replies and support, they mean a lot to me. I'd love to read everything you want to say on this topic. There is very little written about friendship in general, most focus is on romantic relationships. There's even less written about adult friendship, and again less about friendship & AS. The latter usually deals with how to make friends if you're AS. Nothing on how to be a loving friend to one, if you're NT.

I do have a problem not taking this 'no attachment to people' -thing personally, that is true. I try but I don't know how not to as feelings get involved. So help is welcome... I really care about her and this friendship is very important to me. Unfortunately I know she probably feels like I don't accept her as she reads my confusion and concern as lack of acceptance. Now: I want to show her that I accept her and that I love her in a way that she actually interprets that way. How do I do that? I've shown it in every way I can but my motives and feelings get questioned etc., also the lack of positive feedback makes it really hard to know what I might be doing right. The pushing-off that Dragon's Tooth described is very familiar to me.

I'm not exactly outgoing myself. Introvert with sort of social phobia & anxiety disorder.

(Btw, if I say something in a funny way or choose odd wordings, I'm not native.)

 

[epath13]

I wish I knew what specific actions you would need to take, I would give this advice to my husband, so he could always deal easily with 3 of us (our kids and me)
the only idea that comes to my mind now is: be very specific when describing your intentions, try to avoid any gaps in descriptions, say exactly what you want to say no more no less. I know, for instance, I need very specific detailed information otherwise I tend to misinterpret things.
I also think, if you've given an example of a situation, it would be easier for people to help you out.

 

[enigma]

Thanks again. Well, maybe one specific thing you could help with is this:

"(From Dragon's Tooth) It maybe your friend as a coping mechanism pushes people away before they can hurt her. It doesn't mean she doesn't want to be friends it just means that the anxieties and social awkwardness that goes with friendships might end up being too overwhelming or painful (feeling like you are judged harshly and you don't know why for instance). It might be easier to avoid the situation or get in first so to speak."

I've been pushed away in many ways, except she's never told me to go away or leave her alone, so maybe she doesn't mean to do that and it's just a mechanism. She kind of told me that as well: She said that because I show attachment to her, she instinctively feels the need to push me away.

I've dealt with this simply by being resilient. I just won't go away. After being pushed away I always call again after a while to talk with her, or suggest that we see each other, or hug her. When she gets immersed in her own world I always come and dig her out at some point, etc. I get mixed response for doing this. On one hand she appreciates me for doing that, on the other hand it annoys the h**l out of her sometimes.

Am I doing the right thing? Surely I still need to learn not to overstep the boundaries, but otherwise? Do you have other ideas how to deal with the times when I get pushed away? Avoiding triggering that mechanism would be ideal, but I don't think I can achieve that AND be her friend.

 

[Dragon's Tooth]

In response to your specific thing ... I personally hate being interrupted when I have my mental schedule in place. So if I have planned out a list of things to do and someone comes along and want to throw something in the middle I can react very negatively or get upset.

I believe this is an asperger's trait. We generally don't like our routines being interfered with. You could try giving her notice. Generally if you give me a bit of notice to let it sink in ... this could be anything from 1 hour to 24 hours depending on the situation .... then I'm fine.

The other day a friend rang me up and wanted me to come over and help her with something. She rang me when I was in the middle of a busy afternoon so she didn't get the response she wanted. She took it personally. But had she asked me in the morning when we spoke on facebook I would have been very open to it. I guess that sounds like something a normal person would do. But with an asperger's person you can't expect them to drop every without a fight. The things on my list of stuff to do were probably not that important but when I have already planned things out its very stressful for me to change that. More so than normal people.

Also what epath13 said about being very clear with what you say. The same friend I mention above also uses words interchangeably for things and asperger's people are very literal people. If you have ever watched bones and seen her take things very literally that's pretty much what happens. so when she rings and ask for things often there is miscommunication because she does not clearly specify what she wants. This can stress a relationship for both sides.

I also agree that there is very little written in regards to adults and asperger's. It mostly focused on children. I'm assuming that's because it wasn't well known until recent history. A lot of adults you will find are self diagnosed because they missed out of doctors being aware of this and treating it when those who are adults now were children. I have read the children stuff and found it doesn't translate easily to adults because children lack a lot of social history and also their brains are wired completely differently to ours (humans go through several stages of thinking and children's thinking is completely different to adult thinking even for NTs). It would be nice to see some research on adults done but I guess children cry the loudest so to speak. Also there is probably a misconception that if caught early enough they can be trained out of these traits or something.