Repetitive Thoughts or Perseveration ...what helped you?

[Roisin]

Some years ago I was forced to give up a job that would have provided me with a high paying wage till retirement, followed by a guaranteed pension of a similar level, through this job my financial independence was secure. A golden contract which I had spent the previous decade studying and working very hard for.

For years afterwards I perseverated in loops pining for what I had lost, what could have been, unable to accept my reality, hoping I could through determination recreate the absolute one off, once in a lifetime conditions which had led to securing this job.
I didn't know what else I could do, I didnt know how to do anything else, it was an unending source of pain and stuckness.

At some point I learned that this looping could be related to being Autistic!
Slowly I came to recognise that perseverance had been my master, and an enemy of the autonomy which was what I had lost.
Like with my untreated anxiety years before, I came to realise I could create a positive change, not the change I was focussed on but something instead that would require my energy to be diverted onto a task that did not interest me. Through this I would reclaim my mind.

This was the hardest part and I struggled for years with it.
The only reason I kept going was because I could doubt my perception of reality and hold fast to the idea that at times it was my active enemy.

Should I face this perseveration again, I'm interested in learning how the members of this community have or are overcoming a tendency to become stuck in their thoughts.

Feel free to share your experiences if you aren't at that point also .

 

[jsilver256]

YMMV, but I did have an issue with repetitive thoughts and I think they are related to stimming. Around 4-5 months of alcohol disuse, these got replaced with physical stims (hand-flapping in particular). But these physical stims are not voluntary, so I can't tell you how to intentionally induce that particular transition.

Maybe just remember what you did to stim as a kid and allow yourself to do that?

 

[Neonatal RRT]

In my experience, boredom and loneliness are the "tools of the Devil" when it comes to rumination, repetitive thoughts, jealousy, envy, self-pity, and depression. It can even negatively effect our physical well-being.

There is an interesting pair of documentaries on the topic of communities called "The Blue Zones" where the average lifespan is over 100 years. They were found in small areas all over the world. Furthermore, there was no such thing as "elder care", in other words, these people, well into their 90's and 100's were very active and engaged, did manual labor, had a sense of community, lived off the land, etc. Everyone they interviewed appeared happy and fulfilled in their daily lives. The contrast, as compared to the vast majority of other people in communities around the world was quite stark. However, there were lessons to be learned.

There is inherent value to our well-being when it comes to:
1. Being responsible for someone or something. "I must take care of my dog and cat because they depend upon me." "The plants aren't going to water themselves." Volunteering at an animal shelter or community center.
2. Having goals to reach, something to work towards, etc. "Why am I getting up in the morning? What am I going to do today?"
3. Performing random acts of kindness and expressing gratitude.
4. Engaging with the world around you. Shopping at the market or store. Traveling to other cities, states, countries, National parks, etc. Going "off-grid" for a while, hiking and camping, to explore and find peace in nature. Isolating oneself is never good in terms of the health of the brain. New experiences as often as possible.
5. Being active. Garden. Chop wood for the fire place. Go to the gym. Go for walks outdoors. Swim. Bike. Whatever that is for you.

The lesson here is to keep your mind occupied with being an "external thinker" versus an "internal thinker". A sedentary, unstimulated brain will lead to rapid decline.

I recently had a vacation in Scotland. There is a saying, "There's no such thing as bad weather, only bad choices in clothing." Rain and blustery winds are simply part of the Scottish environment, but people still have lives to live, they still have to go outdoors and do things. Now, you can internalize this literally, and it would seem like sage advice, or you can internalize this figuratively, and it could apply to just about anything in your life. "Even when we cannot control the circumstances, we do have to make some wise choices, and continue on. Complaining about the circumstances will not change them. Adapt, overcome, and continue forward." We simply cannot turn off a switch in our brains and stop being autistic. We have to live with it. If we know that our minds are prone to falling into depression and rumination, then we need to keep our brains occupied with other thoughts and stimulation.

 

[Roisin]

YMMV, but I did have an issue with repetitive thoughts and I think they are related to stimming. Around 4-5 months of alcohol disuse, these got replaced with physical stims (hand-flapping in particular). But these physical stims are not voluntary, so I can't tell you how to intentionally induce that particular transition.

Maybe just remember what you did to stim as a kid and allow yourself to do that?

I can relate to how alcohol temporarily quietens the chaos, much admiration .

The repetitive restrictive behaviours and thoughts are in the same category under the diagnostic criteria, it makes sense that there could be a connection especially if visible stims were discouraged in childhood.
I remember always being in trouble for fidgeting as a kiddo.

 

[Roisin]

In my experience, boredom and loneliness are the "tools of the Devil" when it comes to rumination, repetitive thoughts, jealousy, envy, self-pity, and depression. It can even negatively effect our physical well-being.

There is an interesting pair of documentaries on the topic of communities called "The Blue Zones" where the average lifespan is over 100 years. They were found in small areas all over the world. Furthermore, there was no such thing as "elder care", in other words, these people, well into their 90's and 100's were very active and engaged, did manual labor, had a sense of community, lived off the land, etc. Everyone they interviewed appeared happy and fulfilled in their daily lives. The contrast, as compared to the vast majority of other people in communities around the world was quite stark. However, there were lessons to be learned.

There is inherent value to our well-being when it comes to:
1. Being responsible for someone or something. "I must take care of my dog and cat because they depend upon me." "The plants aren't going to water themselves." Volunteering at an animal shelter or community center.
2. Having goals to reach, something to work towards, etc. "Why am I getting up in the morning? What am I going to do today?"
3. Performing random acts of kindness and expressing gratitude.
4. Engaging with the world around you. Shopping at the market or store. Traveling to other cities, states, countries, National parks, etc. Going "off-grid" for a while, hiking and camping, to explore and find peace in nature. Isolating oneself is never good in terms of the health of the brain. New experiences as often as possible.
5. Being active. Garden. Chop wood for the fire place. Go to the gym. Go for walks outdoors. Swim. Bike. Whatever that is for you.

The lesson here is to keep your mind occupied with being an "external thinker" versus an "internal thinker". A sedentary, unstimulated brain will lead to rapid decline.

I recently had a vacation in Scotland. There is a saying, "There's no such thing as bad weather, only bad choices in clothing." Rain and blustery winds are simply part of the Scottish environment, but people still have lives to live, they still have to go outdoors and do things. Now, you can internalize this literally, and it would seem like sage advice, or you can internalize this figuratively, and it could apply to just about anything in your life. "Even when we cannot control the circumstances, we do have to make some wise choices, and continue on. Complaining about the circumstances will not change them. Adapt, overcome, and continue forward." We simply cannot turn off a switch in our brains and stop being autistic. We have to live with it. If we know that our minds are prone to falling into depression and rumination, then we need to keep our brains occupied with other thoughts and stimulation.

Scotland is a lovely place to visit, the parts of it that are wild and rugged are the most beautiful in my eyes.
And yes this is one wet cold summer, I would love to have some semblence of a crop from my veg garden, but its not likely to be plentiful this year. It is disappointing but its how the ball bounced this season, time is better spent planning for next years crops, than focussing on the unchangeable past.

I like the simplicity of the internal vs external thinker. It's difficult to break out of the internal world, it feels like the most natural place to be, familiar and predictable, yet as you say a life without pausing on and considering others needs, causes our minds to focus on our own often unhelpful, internal chatter.

 

[TBRS1]

I just posted this in another thread, but it applies equally here, so I'm gonna just copy pasta:

I have found it useful to learn simple meditation techniques for this (as an adjunct to therapy, not "instead of").

All meditation techniques require the practitioner to develop an internal "thought monitor" - for example, basic breath counting meditation forces one to monitor one's own thoughts so the practitioner can recognize when their own thoughts wander. Otherwise the practitioner can't get back on track.

The ability to watch your thoughts while having them can help you overcome the tendency to think in ruts - to stop continuously making the same "thought errors" over and over again.

It isn't easy to do until you learn how to do it, but after that it becomes nearly automatic.

 

[Aspychata]

I now realize my core is anxiety. So ruminating is just part of the makeup l applied. At one point, l obsessively worried. I finally read a help article that said to simply set your timer, worry as much as you can for 20 mins, then don't worry for the rest of the day. That solved the problem, because after10 mins, l was so bored. I still have an anxiety core, but l don't obsess as much.

 

[Roisin]

I just posted this in another thread, but it applies equally here, so I'm gonna just copy pasta:

I have found it useful to learn simple meditation techniques for this (as an adjunct to therapy, not "instead of").

All meditation techniques require the practitioner to develop an internal "thought monitor" - for example, basic breath counting meditation forces one to monitor one's own thoughts so the practitioner can recognize when their own thoughts wander. Otherwise the practitioner can't get back on track.

The ability to watch your thoughts while having them can help you overcome the tendency to think in ruts - to stop continuously making the same "thought errors" over and over again.

It isn't easy to do until you learn how to do it, but after that it becomes nearly automatic.

Indeed meditation and then later on practicing mindfulness was key to building wellness. Observing unhelpful thoughts made it easier to notice their influence in everyday moments.

I agree that a good-fit talk therapy combined with independently practiced meditation techniques can encourage more personal growth.
I found it useful to attend mindfulness workshops (the silent ones were perfect) as having a teacher to support my learning helped me get a deeper understanding of how widely applicable mindfulness could be.

 

[Roisin]

I now realize my core is anxiety. So ruminating is just part of the makeup l applied. At one point, l obsessively worried. I finally read a help article that said to simply set your timer, worry as much as you can for 20 mins, then don't worry for the rest of the day. That solved the problem, because after10 mins, l was so bored. I still have an anxiety core, but l don't obsess as much.

I like this idea, give worry the floor, give it an outlet, but with time boundaries to keep it in check.
Anxiety seems inevitable for many Autistic people, it's not surprising though, considering the many unsuitable environments we find ourselves in.
Its nice to read you have the connection between anxiety and rumination, that kind of self awareness can be built upon, a gift gained through difficulty perhaps.

 

[Aspychata]

Yup, anxiety is the core of the autism mind, once you accept this as your truth, everything becomes so much easier.

 

[Rodafina]

I'm interested in learning how the members of this community have or are overcoming a tendency to become stuck in their thoughts.

Fatigue. I now have a job that keeps me quite busy and physically exhausted at the end of each day. Every ounce of energy I have left goes into maintaining essential needs (food, clean clothes, family connections, and sleeping). I feel like I solve small puzzles all day and speak to very few people, so it is a good fit for me and leaves me mentally stimulated, but not socially overwhelmed.

This may sound like avoidance and I worried for awhile that it was, but really, I think it's a redirection of energy and a new invention of purpose. Similar to what @Neonatal RRT wrote about, I realize that too much time on my hands leads to excessive and detrimental rumination.

Now, instead of lingering on the past and imagined worries, I am focused on the present with just enough energy to put toward some goals I have for the near future. I know it is important to recognize worries and to process uncomfortable feelings and so I am sure to do this with people that I trust (often right here on the forum).

 

[Aspychata]

Thanks @Rodafina , l have learned so much from being here. We can only support each other.

 

[Roisin]

Fatigue. I now have a job that keeps me quite busy and physically exhausted at the end of each day. Every ounce of energy I have left goes into maintaining essential needs (food, clean clothes, family connections, and sleeping). I feel like I solve small puzzles all day and speak to very few people, so it is a good fit for me and leaves me mentally stimulated, but not socially overwhelmed.

This may sound like avoidance and I worried for awhile that it was, but really, I think it's a redirection of energy and a new invention of purpose. Similar to what @Neonatal RRT wrote about, I realize that too much time on my hands leads to excessive and detrimental rumination.

Now, instead of lingering on the past and imagined worries, I am focused on the present with just enough energy to put toward some goals I have for the near future. I know it is important to recognize worries and to process uncomfortable feelings and so I am sure to do this with people that I trust (often right here on the forum).

I remember working to the point of exhaustion, in my case, the situation wasn't going to change, my choices were between a rock and a hard place. Working meant I wasn't in a dependent situation, which was essential.
It didn't leave any time for my mind to wander into "what if territory" though.
It built a habit, of not focusing on what my mind wanted or was drawn to, but accepting that due to perseveration my perception was inaccurate was the starting point.

 

[Rodafina]

I remember working to the point of exhaustion, in my case, the situation wasn't going to change, my choices were between a rock and a hard place. Working meant I wasn't in a dependent situation, which was essential.
It didn't leave any time for my mind to wander into "what if territory" though.
It built a habit, of not focusing on what my mind wanted or was drawn to, but accepting that due to perseveration my perception was inaccurate was the starting point.

I suppose it's all about finding balance - feeling like we have purpose in our day to day routine, but with enough time to enjoy life and explore things that make us feel curious and alive. All while putting in the effort to process difficult feelings and maintain a comfortable sensory equilibrium. It's a complex puzzle.

 

[Rachie]

I read in another post you've written Roisin that you may be getting screened for ADHD when you go for diagnosis. I hope for you the wait isn't too far off. I saw yesterday though a BBC news story that waiting time for ADHD were at a all time high. It makes wonder how they will manage to support all these people. I wanted to write though that medication is a big part of the treatment for ADHD. I'm not sure of what ones they use. For me although I try and get in some days that are supportive of my mental issue. I can say though medication that Risperdone has been helpful medication for me in giving me a leg up to reducing repetitive thoughts. Unfortunately, I developed symptoms and they took me of the medication. Now I am Queitipine 50mg and it is also meant to help with repetitive thinking. Risperdone is one of the few documented treatments for Autism.

 

[Roisin]

I read in another post you've written Roisin that you may be getting screened for ADHD when you go for diagnosis. I hope for you the wait isn't too far off. I saw yesterday though a BBC news story that waiting time for ADHD were at a all time high. It makes wonder how they will manage to support all these people. I wanted to write though that medication is a big part of the treatment for ADHD. I'm not sure of what ones they use. For me although I try and get in some days that are supportive of my mental issue. I can say though medication that Risperdone has been helpful medication for me in giving me a leg up to reducing repetitive thoughts. Unfortunately, I developed symptoms and they took me of the medication. Now I am Queitipine 50mg and it is also meant to help with repetitive thinking. Risperdone is one of the few documented treatments for Autism.

Hi Rachie
The waiting lists for adult ADHD diagnosis regionally are closed, public and private and many areas don't even have a diagnostic service.

No worries, it will happen in time, I've no intent to study in the next few years, that is where I needed support in the past and it seems more and more so with age.

I was diagnosed with Aspergers some years ago, but since my late teens/early 20s when I learned about ADD inattentive, type 2, I recognised it in myself.
I hope your medication change helps with the distressing repetitive thinking.
I was averse to medication in my younger years, but I'm much more open minded about condidered prescriptions these days; if it can help me function in situations where I need it to then that's a win for me.

I dont know why I haven't looked at how ADHD could have contributed to the perseveration I experienced, lol, that was a blind spot.. thank you

 

[Roisin]

I suppose it's all about finding balance - feeling like we have purpose in our day to day routine, but with enough time to enjoy life and explore things that make us feel curious and alive. All while putting in the effort to process difficult feelings and maintain a comfortable sensory equilibrium. It's a complex puzzle.

Goodness this is the truth, everyday our needs are similar, and yet a different balance is needed at different times.