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Respect Issues

McKenzie

New Member
Hello,
I am struggling with a family member right now, and I know that my rigidity can be an issue sometimes, so would greatly appreciate others' input so I can see how others would handle the situation.

The situation:

I was adopted as a young adult - have known the family since I was 17yo. I have a family member (adoptive father) in a position of authority that expects respect simply because of his position. However, I have always been taught that respect is earned, not simply given. This person works, but I'd say once a month decides to just take some days off. He also refuses to help my adoptive mom in the household, refuses to help take care of pets (then complains that they don't show him affection), and typically leaves trash around the house throughout the day. He does have ADHD, and started taking meds about a year ago. He refuses to up the meds as recommended by his therapist, and refuses to engage in any of the activities to help mitigate the ADHD problems (such as creating lists, writing his own reminders, following reminders, etc). He is codependent with his 8yo son (my adoptive brother), and because he will not help with my brother's OCD exercises so his OCD and anxiety are becoming more severe as he is not learning coping mechanisms, which then creates more work for my mother and me. He does not follow through on his word, which is extremely difficult for me. He has also lied to my mother, and told me I am not allowed to say anything - he does the same thing with my brother, too (which increases his anxiety). It's not huge lies (it's mostly things such as whether he is following through on a meal plan with the son who has stomach issues, and whether he has had 1 too many beers or drank with family), but in my mind a lie is a lie, and it sets a terrible precedent and is disrespectful. He has also made the comment (trying to make it a joke) that my mother can't leave him because he makes the money - I think this is more due to the fact that he is scared of losing her because she is getting fed up with his behavior, and the only thing he brings into the house is money.

My method of dealing with it has been to try and avoid interacting with him in the house because it is clear that anytime responsibility is involved he has a major issue. I do not mind engaging with him in social situations - we get along great when going to lunch and a movie or on vacations with just us 4 family members, when he is not in charge of anything. However, he has reached a major explosion point over the fact that I will not engage with him in the house, and will not assist him with lifting kayaks, carrying fishing poles, or carrying his bookcase up to his attic (basically, me not helping him with his hobbies). I refuse and try to explain to him that I will not help him with hobby stuff because he does not even engage in basic house maintenance (whereas, I mow the lawn, handwash the knives, wash the kitchen table, vacuum the first floor of the house and the stairs, and take out trash, and help with other things that my mom asks me to). He also complains anytime he is asked to do anything, such as cleaning the toilets (which he is supposed to be teaching my younger brother to do so that he understands that males can do household chores, too). He finds my lack of desire to assist him with his hobbies extremely disrespectful because he provides financial support. I tried explaining that respect is earned in my world, I came into the family as an adult, not a blank obedient child, and that I am more than willing to help anyone and everyone who knows how to help themselves and does not cause harm or more work for others. Now, he wants me to come in to an appointment with the therapist with him to try and work this out.

I guess, my question is this: Is it totally unreasonable that I do not help with his hobbies, when he refuses to help with the basic household chores? Is it unreasonable that I find it so difficult to respect someone that causes harm through his actions to my other family members? How can I perhaps handle this better because I do not see his perspective at all?

I am really at a loss here, and I often hear that I am "too black and white", so I am trying to figure out if I am missing the shades of grey here.

I appreciate any help you all can give me. Thank you!
 
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Sounds like the therapist, might be the nail in the coffin...
Does your mother share your view? Who's the bread winner?
Do you want to live your own life? Does your brother of 8 yrs feel dependent on you? Do you feel like you are owned as a piece of property? A trophy that aides his hobby?
 
Sounds like the therapist, might be the nail in the coffin...
Does your mother share your view? Who's the bread winner?
Do you want to live your own life? Does your brother of 8 yrs feel dependent on you? Do you feel like you are owned as a piece of property? A trophy that aides his hobby?

My mother does share my view - she’s more done than me in some respects. He is the breadwinner, which is why he always brings up finances, but as I keep saying finances aren’t the only thing people need. My biological father paid child support when I was growing up, but that didn’t make him a dad or respectable when he never showed up, and never spoke to us kids.

Fair questions. My 8yo brother is definitely glued to his hip so he’s not dependent on me. I guess my major feeling is frustration because I do a ton of chores in the household and he’s basically dismissing those and saying I’m disrespectful because I won’t help.
 
I guess, my question is this: Is it totally unreasonable that I do not help with his hobbies, when he refuses to help with the basic household chores? Is it unreasonable that I find it so difficult to respect someone that causes harm through his actions to my other family members? How can I perhaps handle this better because I do not see his perspective at all?

I am really at a loss here, and I often hear that I am "too black and white", so I am trying to figure out if I am missing the shades of grey here.

You nailed it. There are a number of shades of grey that you are not seeing. You take the situation at face value.

BLACK AND WHITE
  • He can be a jerk
  • He has a world view that is his alone and not share by anyone else
  • He layers expectations on other people
  • He sees himself than more than he is and expects affection, worship and appreciation in return
  • He is trying to manipulate you into doing what he wants you to do (via the therapist)
  • You see this behavior and refuse to play along.
GREYS
  • You won't be able to change him
  • No one cares what you see or think
  • Taking a stand and doing "the right thing" in this situation is not going to benefit you in any way
  • You are expending far to much energy on this situation
  • His life and attitude effects your life right now
  • His life and attitude won't effect your entire life
  • Winning this battle will be detrimental to your life
The most salient point being that you are expending far too much time and energy contemplating someone else.

Believe me when I say that navigating life as an aspie has enough challenges without taking on other peoples challenges.

So in this particular situation I would advice that you lose. Allow him to come to therapy, pretend that you are starting to see his point and show the bare minimum of co-operation. Allow him to think that he has won. Then stop thinking about it! Your ENTIRE focus should be on you, taking and passing exams, getting qualifications, figuring out how the hell you can hold down a job. You need him until you can stand on your own two feet so stop faffing around and focus.
 
You nailed it. There are a number of shades of grey that you are not seeing. You take the situation at face value.

BLACK AND WHITE
  • He can be a jerk
  • He has a world view that is his alone and not share by anyone else
  • He layers expectations on other people
  • He sees himself than more than he is and expects affection, worship and appreciation in return
  • He is trying to manipulate you into doing what he wants you to do (via the therapist)
  • You see this behavior and refuse to play along.
GREYS
  • You won't be able to change him
  • No one cares what you see or think
  • Taking a stand and doing "the right thing" in this situation is not going to benefit you in any way
  • You are expending far to much energy on this situation
  • His life and attitude effects your life right now
  • His life and attitude won't effect your entire life
  • Winning this battle will be detrimental to your life
The most salient point being that you are expending far too much time and energy contemplating someone else.

Believe me when I say that navigating life as an aspie has enough challenges without taking on other peoples challenges.

So in this particular situation I would advice that you lose. Allow him to come to therapy, pretend that you are starting to see his point and show the bare minimum of co-operation. Allow him to think that he has won. Then stop thinking about it! Your ENTIRE focus should be on you, taking and passing exams, getting qualifications, figuring out how the hell you can hold down a job. You need him until you can stand on your own two feet so stop faffing around and focus.

That’s actually very helpful. Thank you. :) I do try to tell myself it’s only January that I have to make it to (although 7yrs of this is already more than enough) - since I recently graduated I am waiting for the job hiring process to open for my dream job and they only do so once a year. Fingers crossed. I’m also applying to phd programs in case the job doesn’t pan out. I already work 3 jobs currently so that helps get me out of the house.

Follow up question: when asked to help work with his hobby again, what would be the best way to handle it? I get highly agitated when asked to do last minute things, especially for people I see as incompetent, and we all have an agreement in the house to ask the day ahead or morning of.
 
You seem to be very aware of family dynamics - you are very smart. I'm concerned about your piece of mind in all of this chaos. The bread-winning brother is probably confused about his role and the responsibility of caring for the household. He might view you as just another guy who is capable of helping when needed. I am not sure if this brother is intentionally trying to use or abuse you. Finding your role in this environment is not without some compromise.

If you feel put upon, you will naturally dislike helping around the house. It feels abusive. Also, you are probably trying to establish and maintain your own sense of order which seems necessary in an environment of unpredictable demands. I have never liked doing my part, only to find that I have to do another person's part because they forgot or simply chose not to do it. That felt very abusive to me. I always had pride in being responsible and felt that doing other people's work was grossly inappropriate. Over time I learned to reject the negative feelings of abuse. Instead of getting upset, I looked at helping with tasks and projects as a normal case of contributing to the common good. It doesn't kill you to clean up another person's mess, but it hurts when you see it as blatant abuse.

In a certain way, being able to hang out with your brother who has the responsibility to care for the whole household might be beneficial to you. By being included with all of his activities, you end up spending some quality time together that can lead to good conversations about life.

Being helpful is a special trait that will always be associated with your character. Nobody will argue against the value of character. I sense that you are helpful by nature, but see the abusive side to the way it is used. You seem to have a goal in life, so I have faith that you will do well in the world. Your eyes are open and you are approaching this domestic imbalance with intelligence. I hate to see you doing the work and allowing it to tick you off in the process. Never let other people's dysfunction govern you. Don't ever obey out of fear. Give of yourself out of love and appreciation. Take care of your own well-being in all of this.
 
You seem to be very aware of family dynamics - you are very smart. I'm concerned about your piece of mind in all of this chaos. The bread-winning brother is probably confused about his role and the responsibility of caring for the household. He might view you as just another guy who is capable of helping when needed. I am not sure if this brother is intentionally trying to use or abuse you. Finding your role in this environment is not without some compromise.

If you feel put upon, you will naturally dislike helping around the house. It feels abusive. Also, you are probably trying to establish and maintain your own sense of order which seems necessary in an environment of unpredictable demands. I have never liked doing my part, only to find that I have to do another person's part because they forgot or simply chose not to do it. That felt very abusive to me. I always had pride in being responsible and felt that doing other people's work was grossly inappropriate. Over time I learned to reject the negative feelings of abuse. Instead of getting upset, I looked at helping with tasks and projects as a normal case of contributing to the common good. It doesn't kill you to clean up another person's mess, but it hurts when you see it as blatant abuse.

In a certain way, being able to hang out with your brother who has the responsibility to care for the whole household might be beneficial to you. By being included with all of his activities, you end up spending some quality time together that can lead to good conversations about life.

Being helpful is a special trait that will always be associated with your character. Nobody will argue against the value of character. I sense that you are helpful by nature, but see the abusive side to the way it is used. You seem to have a goal in life, so I have faith that you will do well in the world. Your eyes are open and you are approaching this domestic imbalance with intelligence. I hate to see you doing the work and allowing it to tick you off in the process. Never let other people's dysfunction govern you. Don't ever obey out of fear. Give of yourself out of love and appreciation. Take care of your own well-being in all of this.
Thank you, Peter. That’s actually a good reminder and very helpful response. Gives me a lot to think about. Thank you.
 
Your dad grew up in a world with vastly different gender roles than our generation is willing to accept. Combine that with ADHD and it produces your current situation. I’m not saying it’s right or excusable, but it does give a likely cause for his behavior.

Counseling sounds like a great idea as long as the counselor listens to your side without him in the room. Anyone who cares at all about gender equality and mutual respect will likely tell your dad that his uselessness around the house is the cause of discord in the family. If your dad is willing to listen to criticism counseling could be good for the whole family.
 
Your dad grew up in a world with vastly different gender roles than our generation is willing to accept. Combine that with ADHD and it produces your current situation. I’m not saying it’s right or excusable, but it does give a likely cause for his behavior.

Counseling sounds like a great idea as long as the counselor listens to your side without him in the room. Anyone who cares at all about gender equality and mutual respect will likely tell your dad that his uselessness around the house is the cause of discord in the family. If your dad is willing to listen to criticism counseling could be good for the whole family.

True. We have been going to counseling as a family for a while now. I think the unfortunate thing is that he doesn’t engage in the “homework” and then he’ll agree to one thing in the session and not stick with it and argue that he never agreed to it or say that it’s not “fair” or “convenient”.

I’m hoping maybe we’ve gotten to enough of a breaking point (as harsh as that sounds) that maybe he’ll take it more seriously, although talks of divorce and my younger brother’s worsening mental illness symptoms haven’t motivated him yet, so I’m not sure what it will take honestly.
 

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