Romantic relationships between neurology

[Keigan]

One of my special interests is seeking an evolving understanding of the human experience, which is really just learning about myself and how I do/don't interact with the world. One sub-interest is romantic relationships and their challenges, leading to this thread.

Considering relationships between individuals, obviously everyone is different, here are my thoughts and observations:

Below are three types of pairings followed by three kickers that are considerations.

Case 1
I think the interactions between NT individual and another NT individual has the opportunity/challenges to flourish as they have the same type of neurology plus everything else to complicate their relationship.

Case 2
I think the interactions between NT individual and an aspie individual would be challenging as their neurology is vastly different from each other and they would both need incredible patience and compassion for a relationship to work, a lot of work.

Case 3
I think that interactions between an aspie individual and another aspie individual has a greater opportunity to flourish as they have similar neurology and challenges, plus they have core desires to fit in with another, plus they have patience and understanding of aspie traits which has the potential to allow mistakes to roll off without being hurt.

Kicker 1
Throw into the mix an empathic individual (usually NT) paired with a non-empathic individual (usually aspie) and the core needs of the empathic will probably never be met.

Kicker 2
Throw into the mix an empathic individual (usually NT) paired with an alexithymic individual (NT or aspie) and the core needs of the empathic will never be met, emotional connection not likely and in some case not possible due to DNA.

Kicker 3 Example
'Cassandra syndrome' a handsome aspie male can appear as a distant stranger, an empathic female is attracted through her curiosity and willingness to nurture the missing emotions of the aspie male in order to "fix him". This can lead to disaster as the core needs of the empathic female will probably never be met by the discovery of an emotional connection with the aspie male, amplified if the aspie male is also alexithymic. Additionally, expectations from the empathic female placed onto the aspie male will cause him to withdraw and shutdown. As a mitigation, the empathic female usually amplifies her efforts by attempting to get even closer through crowding and flooding the aspie male resulting in the potential for further withdrawal, shutdown and possibly meltdown.

What are your thoughts ?

 

[Aspie_rin]

You make it sound like an interneuro relationship is always bound to be a struggle... I'm an aspie and I've been in a relationship with a NT guy for more than two years, and things never have been too complicated. Even though he didn't know I was an aspie for the majority of our time together, he always accepted me as I was without. However I'm more emotional than the average aspie and I love to cuddle with him (though I'm really not touchy-feely with anyone else).

Really, it depends on the aspie and on the NT. And often NTs are not compatible with another NT, same thing goes for autistic people

 

[Mia]

One of the things that I should make a point of here, is that some Aspie females along the spectrum are empathic, just as some Aspie males are. There should be a provision here that indicates more of these abilities in Aspie females and males. Not all aspie/autie males lack emotion or understanding of emotions at a certain level.

Aspies tend toward not comprehending the emotions of others, but they themselves have emotion, and some do recognise them, alexthymia or no. So it's not so clear-cut as you make it, there are different degrees of alexthemia, few are textbook, there are lots of in-between's.

I'm an Aspie in relationship with another Aspie. His recognition of my own emotions and understanding is far from perfect. Yet he does show sympathy, even empathy for others, in his own manner. Simply not in a socially understood way. He doesn't notice it in others unless it's quite obvious and overt, but when shown or indicated, he understands and feels things for others.

One of the things I absolutely hate about diagnosis is that it deals in antipodes. Measuring one group against another. It's almost a cliche, the idea of the brainy, nerdy, genius aspie or autie without emotion. There's so many manifestations of this neurological condition that are on a scale, all along the spectrum.

 

[Hopeless_Aspie_Guy]

You make it sound like an interneuro relationship is always bound to be a struggle... I'm an aspie and I've been in a relationship with a NT guy

I think it's easier when the female is an aspie because she's a lot more NT than an aspie guy despite still being on the spectrum. I've said it before and I'll say it again- ASPIE GUYS SHOULDN'T DATE

 

[Keigan]

Excellent feedback, thank you.

 

[EllieMay]

I believe that all of my "couples" relationships have been with NT's --- and therefore all ultimately unsuccessful. I did not find out about the spectrum, and my likely place on it, until I was 50+. It explained some of the reactions my partners had and things they did to me --- even in those cases when I thought everything was OK. Although on one hand I would like someone in my life, I seem to attract liars, cheaters, and users --- and I'm not sure I want to go there again.

 

[Aspie_rin]

I believe that all of my "couples" relationships have been with NT's --- and therefore all ultimately unsuccessful. I did not find out about the spectrum, and my likely place on it, until I was 50+. It explained some of the reactions my partners had and things they did to me --- even in those cases when I thought everything was OK. Although on one hand I would like someone in my life, I seem to attract liars, cheaters, and users --- and I'm not sure I want to go there again.

It seems that you're not really good at spoting these kinds of people, maybe doing some research about what the red flags are would help you?

 

[EllieMay]

It seems that you're not really good at spoting these kinds of people

You are 100% right --- I am NOT good at all in discerning the intentions, and automatically accept people at face value, perhaps even projecting my positives onto them. I used to think I was really incredibly stupid --- but now I realize I am really incredibly vulnerable because I can't "see" beneath the surface. I have learned from each one and tried to learn about red flags, but there are so many differences in each that it is hard for me to see except in retrospect. Still --- every time I think I have sworn off humans, I find myself eventually thinking maybe . . .

 

[Mia]

You are 100% right --- I am NOT good at all in discerning the intentions, and automatically accept people at face value, perhaps even projecting my positives onto them. I used to think I was really incredibly stupid --- but now I realize I am really incredibly vulnerable because I can't "see" beneath the surface. I have learned from each one and tried to learn about red flags, but there are so many differences in each that it is hard for me to see except in retrospect. Still --- every time I think I have sworn off humans, I find myself eventually thinking maybe . . .

Was lucky to meet someone like my husband Ellie May. Before that, there had been relationships where I did take people at face value. A naive, honest, rational person who assumed that everyone was similar.

Couldn't have been more wrong in some instances. Each time a relationship was over, I reconsidered it. Perhaps as a result of my strict convent upbringing I was just as strict about what was acceptable and what was not. In retrospect they seemed like a training ground, for what I wanted and didn't want.

 

[sisselcakes]

One of my special interests is seeking an evolving understanding of the human experience, which is really just learning about myself and how I do/don't interact with the world. One sub-interest is romantic relationships and their challenges, leading to this thread.

Considering relationships between individuals, obviously everyone is different, here are my thoughts and observations:

Below are three types of pairings followed by three kickers that are considerations.

Case 1
I think the interactions between NT individual and another NT individual has the opportunity/challenges to flourish as they have the same type of neurology plus everything else to complicate their relationship.

Case 2
I think the interactions between NT individual and an aspie individual would be challenging as their neurology is vastly different from each other and they would both need incredible patience and compassion for a relationship to work, a lot of work.

Case 3
I think that interactions between an aspie individual and another aspie individual has a greater opportunity to flourish as they have similar neurology and challenges, plus they have core desires to fit in with another, plus they have patience and understanding of aspie traits which has the potential to allow mistakes to roll off without being hurt.

Kicker 1
Throw into the mix an empathic individual (usually NT) paired with a non-empathic individual (usually aspie) and the core needs of the empathic will probably never be met.

Kicker 2
Throw into the mix an empathic individual (usually NT) paired with an alexithymic individual (NT or aspie) and the core needs of the empathic will never be met, emotional connection not likely and in some case not possible due to DNA.

Kicker 3 Example
'Cassandra syndrome' a handsome aspie male can appear as a distant stranger, an empathic female is attracted through her curiosity and willingness to nurture the missing emotions of the aspie male in order to "fix him". This can lead to disaster as the core needs of the empathic female will probably never be met by the discovery of an emotional connection with the aspie male, amplified if the aspie male is also alexithymic. Additionally, expectations from the empathic female placed onto the aspie male will cause him to withdraw and shutdown. As a mitigation, the empathic female usually amplifies her efforts by attempting to get even closer through crowding and flooding the aspie male resulting in the potential for further withdrawal, shutdown and possibly meltdown.

What are your thoughts ?

I've lived Case 2. It's truly like speaking a separate language. I have found the most frustrating is even though you may even realize you are speaking a different language, you don't know what you don't know! Where is the starting point for clarifying and for avoiding misunderstandings. In theory you could go for years, perceiving a situation differently. That perception could be the root of an ongoing problem but the couple won't be aware. It's kind of mind-boggling. Like how can one even know what questions to ask in order to clarify where the other is coming from if you don't share his/her world view AND you have not personally experienced the same thought process.

Then you add Kicker 1, and your (NT) emotional needs don't get met. Not only do they not get met, the NT feels deflated. It's the lack of verbal and other forms of validation which, from what I understand, are not as important to Aspies. A well-known couple who work in the field of marital relationships claim ratio of validating statements/experiences to ones of invalidation should be, at a minimum, 5:1 to maintain a healthy relationship.

This is an interesting convo, and from my experience it goes to even more complex depths. Just don't have time at the moment to write. I'm avoiding work. LOL

 

[sisselcakes]

One of the things that I should make a point of here, is that some Aspie females along the spectrum are empathic, just as some Aspie males are. There should be a provision here that indicates more of these abilities in Aspie females and males. Not all aspie/autie males lack emotion or understanding of emotions at a certain level.

Aspies tend toward not comprehending the emotions of others, but they themselves have emotion, and some do recognise them, alexthymia or no. So it's not so clear-cut as you make it, there are different degrees of alexthemia, few are textbook, there are lots of in-between's.

I'm an Aspie in relationship with another Aspie. His recognition of my own emotions and understanding is far from perfect. Yet he does show sympathy, even empathy for others, in his own manner. Simply not in a socially understood way. He doesn't notice it in others unless it's quite obvious and overt, but when shown or indicated, he understands and feels things for others.

One of the things I absolutely hate about diagnosis is that it deals in antipodes. Measuring one group against another. It's almost a cliche, the idea of the brainy, nerdy, genius aspie or autie without emotion. There's so many manifestations of this neurological condition that are on a scale, all along the spectrum.

This is only based on my own experience. It bothers me to hear people say Aspies don't have empathy. I feel it's a dangerous idea to encourage when educating the public. I like the term mind blindness better. The idea of someone lacking empathy sounds as though they are emotionless and callous. But I don't believe Aspies are devoid of emotion and compassion.

I've found it my bf takes a circuitous route to access his well of compassion. It's like his initial reaction is not "empathic". His initial reaction is based on logic and reason. When I hit the back of a guy's van once, the guy I rear-ended contacted me with a veiled threat because he didn't feel the insurance company had paid him enough for the damage.

I'm a single mom and learned this guy had been in prison. I was shaking with anxiety. My bf's response was that the guy had gotten screwed and if it were him he would try to help the guy out a little financially.

From an emotionless POV, I completely agree. I hit the guy. Wasn't his fault. But my BF could not, no matter how I tried to explain it to him, understand. It truly was speaking a different language. Soooo frustrating. It was as though he took the criminal's side.

Finally one day I was in the kitchen, I brought it up again and was met with the "wall" of logic. The minute he saw tears in my eyes. It had been the first time I cried out of sheer frustration. His facial expression softened, his body let down a bit, he gave me a big hug and sincerely said he was sorry. He needed some kind of trigger for him to "get' it. He isn't a single mother. He couldn't relate to feeling vulnerable in the situation. Until he got it, his insistence on supporting the guy came across as downright abusive.