Seeing the solution and being blocked

[Grondhammar]

Hi everyone, I'm new here. I hope this is the right spot.

I've kind of gotten a bad reputation at work for being constantly like, "What if we did this?" or "Why aren't we doing that differently?" I really try to express my ideas constructively and clearly. I have eye contact issues, and trouble with conversation generally, and it's a real strain sometimes. And I'm aware there are egos involved (especially with the managers).

But It's like my brain sees a problem and sees a solution, and I get SO excited by that and just have to express it. To be told to basically shut up is really disheartening and triggers all the not-good-enough thoughts.

I guess I'm looking for others perspective on this from the inside. Thanks.

 

[Masked Man]

I guess I would need to more on the situation before making any sort of judgement.

Things like: what sort of job you do, what sort of work is being done, what process do you want to change and how are you making these suggestions.

There may be reasons (legal, safety, etc.) why the processes are the way they are. Like for example, at my work, we had a facilities representative in recently who went over things we can and cannot do. One of the things was the refrigerator we have in our break room. He said we can't have it in that room anymore. So at first glance, it doesn't make sense, but the reasons are: we are renting the building, and the fridge is sitting on carpet which is a potential fire hazard. We can have a fridge, it just has to be on a tile floor - so not in that room.

I actually think it's great to have ideas that could potentially improve the process and flow of work, but usually these things probably need to be reviewed for various reasons that you may not have previously considered. I would not get too down on yourself, there are little things that most people would not have considered.

 

[Wolfiedog]

Ah, another reason i’m glad to be retired.
i relate to this.

 

[VictorR]

I hear you.

As Masked Man noted, additional context would be helpful for identifying potential pushback factors.

With that said, feedback and process suggestions are usually most appreciated in organizations focused on collaboration with little or no hierarchy, since everyone benefits. They may also be better recieved at organizations where anyone at any position is able to submit questions, ideas, or other feedback.

Unfortunately, most organizations tend to be hierarchal in nature, and that could mean (among otger things / non exhaustive list):

a) A suggestion can be seen as a challenge. If you're proposing a better way of doing things, even if your idea has genuine merit, it could be seen as suggesting whoever came up with the current process wasn't good at their job. And that person is likely someone quite senior that your immediate supervisor doesn't want to risk antagonizing.

b) Your colleages and immediate supervisors may perceive you as being "too good" at your job, making them look bad in comparison. People who feel that their job (including potential promotions) is at risk will tend to act in ways to preserve their own intetests, including ensuring that there isn't anyone outshining them. This is especially so if you have incompetent colleages or management (see Peter Principle).

c) In certain roles, especially "front line" or "on the floor" type jobs, workers are expected to do their job, nothing more and nothing less. Talking about work, especially if you are regularly doing so (and even more so if you seldom engage in non-work talk) in such situations will cause you to be seen as a "smart aleck" or "know it all".

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Hi everyone, I'm new here. I hope this is the right spot.

I've kind of gotten a bad reputation at work for being constantly like, "What if we did this?" or "Why aren't we doing that differently?" I really try to express my ideas constructively and clearly. I have eye contact issues, and trouble with conversation generally, and it's a real strain sometimes. And I'm aware there are egos involved (especially with the managers).

But It's like my brain sees a problem and sees a solution, and I get SO excited by that and just have to express it. To be told to basically shut up is really disheartening and triggers all the not-good-enough thoughts.

I guess I'm looking for others perspective on this from the inside. Thanks.

Story of my professional career.

The problem, at least in my assessment, but also expressed by management is the fact that in situations where there is a large number of staff, your policy and procedure...how things are done...is limited to the least intellectual person on the team. In other words...everyone is limited by the weakest team member. In many cases there are several better ways of doing things, but that also requires a higher level of thinking, responsibility, and accountability. Right or wrong, in order to minimize mistakes, potential harm, and liability, we are often put into situations where the "standard of practice" is limited...and it is called "safety".

I get so frustrated with the whole concept of "dumbing down" the practice because of the weakest link on the team. I am really quite concerned about the next 5-10 years...as we are literally in a race to have the best A.I. and humanoid robots...specifically for the purpose of filling employment gaps...and replacing humans. Anything that is relatively simple to do...anything "task oriented"...there will be no place for humans. If your managers are not in the mindset of protecting jobs by advancing standards of practice, then they are either ignorant, incompetent, or intentional.

 

[Shamar]

Hi everyone, I'm new here. I hope this is the right spot.

I've kind of gotten a bad reputation at work for being constantly like, "What if we did this?" or "Why aren't we doing that differently?" I really try to express my ideas constructively and clearly. I have eye contact issues, and trouble with conversation generally, and it's a real strain sometimes. And I'm aware there are egos involved (especially with the managers).

But It's like my brain sees a problem and sees a solution, and I get SO excited by that and just have to express it. To be told to basically shut up is really disheartening and triggers all the not-good-enough thoughts.

I guess I'm looking for others perspective on this from the inside. Thanks.

I had the same problem at my work. I saw solutions to problems, but not the kind of solutions they were used to, so I was ignored. It was frustrating. On the other hand, when they had problems they couldn't figure out, I was frequently given the job.

I even found solutions to problems they didn't know they had. I once questioned the validity of some of the data collection techniques to the company owner. He replied "I suspect you are right, but if you demonstrated that, everything we have done in the last 10 years will have to be recalculated. I don't want to think about that. What we are doing works on a relative basis, and that is good enough."

 

[Grondhammar]

I guess I would need to more on the situation before making any sort of judgement.

Things like: what sort of job you do, what sort of work is being done, what process do you want to change and how are you making these suggestions.

There may be reasons (legal, safety, etc.) why the processes are the way they are. Like for example, at my work, we had a facilities representative in recently who went over things we can and cannot do. One of the things was the refrigerator we have in our break room. He said we can't have it in that room anymore. So at first glance, it doesn't make sense, but the reasons are: we are renting the building, and the fridge is sitting on carpet which is a potential fire hazard. We can have a fridge, it just has to be on a tile floor - so not in that room.

I actually think it's great to have ideas that could potentially improve the process and flow of work, but usually these things probably need to be reviewed for various reasons that you may not have previously considered. I would not get too down on yourself, there are little things that most people would not have considered.

Oh, that's a very good question about how I'm making these suggestions. It's made me think since I read your post, and I could use some improvement there.

I tend to mull over problems, and then get these sudden flashes of ideas (sometimes several at a time). At times this is a full-body experience (all hands in my case), and I *have* to get it out somehow. So if someone's walking by I catch them in the middle of whatever they're doing. If I'm working at home, I email. Sometimes I'm able to hold it for a little while and catch someone at end of a (totally unrelated) meeting.

So yes, it's pretty random and out of the blue for people hearing these things. I can see why they're like "rein it in".

I think I'm going to set a goal of maybe physically writing all the ideas on paper, or a chalkboard, or something. I've found this helpful in the past to dissipate the energy, and then I can find a good time/space/place to make the suggestion.

Thanks for inducing some self-reflection!

 

[Grondhammar]

Ah, another reason i’m glad to be retired.
i relate to this.

<-- me blowing my nose after crying with envy. Someday!

 

[Grondhammar]

I hear you.

As Masked Man noted, additional context would be helpful for identifying potential pushback factors.

With that said, feedback and process suggestions are usually most appreciated in organizations focused on collaboration with little or no hierarchy, since everyone benefits. They may also be better recieved at organizations where anyone at any position is able to submit questions, ideas, or other feedback.

Unfortunately, most organizations tend to be hierarchal in nature, and that could mean (among otger things / non exhaustive list):

a) A suggestion can be seen as a challenge. If you're proposing a better way of doing things, even if your idea has genuine merit, it could be seen as suggesting whoever came up with the current process wasn't good at their job. And that person is likely someone quite senior that your immediate supervisor doesn't want to risk antagonizing.

b) Your colleages and immediate supervisors may perceive you as being "too good" at your job, making them look bad in comparison. People who feel that their job (including potential promotions) is at risk will tend to act in ways to preserve their own intetests, including ensuring that there isn't anyone outshining them. This is especially so if you have incompetent colleages or management (see Peter Principle).

c) In certain roles, especially "front line" or "on the floor" type jobs, workers are expected to do their job, nothing more and nothing less. Talking about work, especially if you are regularly doing so (and even more so if you seldom engage in non-work talk) in such situations will cause you to be seen as a "smart aleck" or "know it all".

This is really so helpful, thank you!

My workplace is SUPER-hierarchical. I think probably most big organisations have to be, but yes, very much.

I find it really hard to recognise when I'm making someone feel threatened or uncomfortable. That's absolutely never my intention! But I can see why, and I think you're right. It makes me sad to think I hurt someone (or some few, I think) with this.

The one thing I feel good about is that I've talked with my co-workers about most of these suggestions, and they're in total agreement. But now that I think about it, they're also letting me do all the suggesting I'm guessing they're in agreement but also recognise how politically dangerous it is to say anything. And I guess I don't! Ugh. I do think I've picked up a bit of that "know it all" vibe you mentioned.

Time to slow it down, find some coping strategy/strategies for handling the energy. What I don't want to do is "just be normal" and pretend I don't notice. As the duck said in Babe, "The way things are stinks!" Just got to find a way to say that without hurting people.

 

[Grondhammar]

Story of my professional career.

The problem, at least in my assessment, but also expressed by management is the fact that in situations where there is a large number of staff, your policy and procedure...how things are done...is limited to the least intellectual person on the team. In other words...everyone is limited by the weakest team member. In many cases there are several better ways of doing things, but that also requires a higher level of thinking, responsibility, and accountability. Right or wrong, in order to minimize mistakes, potential harm, and liability, we are often put into situations where the "standard of practice" is limited...and it is called "safety".

I get so frustrated with the whole concept of "dumbing down" the practice because of the weakest link on the team. I am really quite concerned about the next 5-10 years...as we are literally in a race to have the best A.I. and humanoid robots...specifically for the purpose of filling employment gaps...and replacing humans. Anything that is relatively simple to do...anything "task oriented"...there will be no place for humans. If your managers are not in the mindset of protecting jobs by advancing standards of practice, then they are either ignorant, incompetent, or intentional.

Brilliant observation here. My sub-organisation is making a big push for standards right now, and they're doing it in a way that is so slow and so behind. I work in a tech group, and they're talking about standardising things based on how things worked ten years ago (and sometimes even longer).

I hadn't made the connection that they might be doing this to favour people who have been there a long time and like the way things ran in 2012-2015. Facepalm.

That's a great point you make about A.I. Especially in the tech world, it's already had a huge effect on everyday work. I don't think I'll bring that up right away... my co-workers are already pretty scared of losing their jobs to ChatGPT. But it's a very good point.

 

[Grondhammar]

I had the same problem at my work. I saw solutions to problems, but not the kind of solutions they were used to, so I was ignored. It was frustrating. On the other hand, when they had problems they couldn't figure out, I was frequently given the job.

I even found solutions to problems they didn't know they had. I once questioned the validity of some of the data collection techniques to the company owner. He replied "I suspect you are right, but if you demonstrated that, everything we have done in the last 10 years will have to be recalculated. I don't want to think about that. What we are doing works on a relative basis, and that is good enough."

Thanks @Shamar, that's really encouraging!

I wonder if I could somehow work my way into a position where that was part of my job description... like, Process Improvement or something. I would love that -- if things actually changed for the better. If I just got more labelled with the "know it all" sticker that @VictorR mentioned, that would not be a fun job.

Very cool that you found a core data problem like that. And, as someone who works with data and researchers pretty regularly, I can see just how terrifying that could be! I'm thinking of one of our funding agencies getting a whiff of something like that and

 

[Grondhammar]

Thanks to all of you. This has been so helpful, and so comforting to hear others who know where I'm at right now, and get some really good suggestions and thoughts.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Grondhammar

Some random thoughts for you:

1. Process changes are rarely cheap.
You have to make sure there are no unintended consequences; you have to retrain the people who are involved (which always takes 2x or more time than expected); you often have to throw away some old or incomplete work, etc.
So even a good suggestion may be impractical in the moment. Project Completion should normally take precedence.

2. There's a concept where I live that translates to "sub-optimization" (might work in English too).
The implication is that optimizing something at a smaller scale can have larger negative effects when the "big picture" is considered.
This manifests in other contexts as "the law of unintended consequences" as mentioned above.
That doesn't mean that bottom-up "continuous improvement" is a bad thing of course. It's just a guideline for assessing any specific change.

3. Telling someone about a good idea that doesn't affect their responsibilities and activities is not likely to work well. The natural audience is operational-level people who will benefit directly, and their immediate management

4. Colleagues who agree with a suggestion but are not paid to implement it might support your ideas, but should not help to "sell" the idea, or informally implement it (unless OFC it's a micro-scale, rapid payback improvement).

I've seen a lot of money (tens of millions of USD) go up in smoke (in the form of large failed projects) because of people concentrating on the wrong things. It's quite common in IT, because it's so hard for management to know that work is being done efficiently.
A few of the underlying causes include:
* Developers who sneak in features and technology that will look good on their resume, but is "project negative"
* Tech people (all kinds) who prefer to create automation than just do their work
* "Artists" who over-spec so the result is "elegant", resulting in time and cost overruns, and sometimes cancellation.

I didn't put a line in for you, because looking for improvement doesn't damage projects. If you enjoy it you should keep doing it.

But you definitely need to work on context (if you have something to say, who do you say it to, and how do you present it?). I think (from your latest post) you're working on this already, so just two simple guidelines:

* You need to be able to get "what" and "why" into one whiteboard or max five slides with one or two diagrams and less than 20 lines of text in total. Plan for max delivery time in both cases of 10 min for you, 5 min for questions.
A "win" is being asked to complete the documentation implied in the presentation

* Think about who benefits (including their operational management), and package everything for them.
Random chatty colleagues don't count.
Cui bono? - Wikipedia
(Not a great Wikipedia article, but I've heard it used informally IRL)

 

[Shamar]

Thanks @Shamar, that's really encouraging!

I wonder if I could somehow work my way into a position where that was part of my job description... like, Process Improvement or something. I would love that -- if things actually changed for the better. If I just got more labelled with the "know it all" sticker that @VictorR mentioned, that would not be a fun job.

Very cool that you found a core data problem like that. And, as someone who works with data and researchers pretty regularly, I can see just how terrifying that could be! I'm thinking of one of our funding agencies getting a whiff of something like that and

I once built a geophysical magnetic sensor that I was told couldn't be built. I looked at why they said that and saw a workaround. It worked well. It was bulky but I built it light to make it easier to carry over rough terrain. Unfortunately, it was so light that in any sort of wind, it would shake too much to get good data. In Kansas, we had to dig a hole and bury it. The other option was to carry a 200 foot 100 conductor cable. Heavy and took a long time to set up.

I also built a magnetic sensor based on the Hall Effect. Again, they said it wouldn't work when I proposed it. I thought about how electricity flows in multi dimensional conductors and built a working prototype. Nobody seemed interested.

 

[paloftoon]

I can probably answer this at least a little bit.
I work in a department that is full of ND people, and there is, of course, one person who has characteristics like you do in particular.

When you bring up things in the context and vein of
"What if we did this?" or "Why aren't we doing that differently?", bringing this up once in awhile might be okay. Bringing this up a lot might be too much time, energy, and distraction. Sometimes, concerns like this should be documented with you doing the research and expressing why something could be considered being done differently than how something is being done.
Consider e-mailing your concerns, and only e-mail once in a day. If there's more you forgot to add, draft another e-mail up but do not send it out until the next day. That's a good general rule to follow. Most things are not so urgent that so and so needs to be notified right away.

This particular co-worker has explained something 20-30 minutes that easily could've been summarized in 5 minutes or less. Sometimes, he will be like this or that needs to be a certain way and I've told him that the effort it takes to be so exact- people aren't always available to grade papers- so sometimes it's better to buffer more time in for things that hold less at stake, than say, a project with a tight deadline that is being funded by an external client.

Some of the things this coworker has done, he has us dig through materials or a few of his links have not worked. Just keeps shoveling information. I'm not sure if you go to this extent, but for me, this coworker distracts me from being able to do my own work and it takes up so much energy and time- too much for things that do not hold a lot of weight.

He is going through a lot of trauma- and to me and on some project calls and to others, he will send at least two music videos every work day. He had my personal phone number because we were trying to meet up- but I don't think he actually wanted to meet up. he abused the texts so bad I had to block him even though I asked him several times not to use my phone number unless he's trying to meet me in-person.

 

[JayCee]

Have seen this concept in action in the Law Enforcement community . And crimes such as homicide go unpunished, due to influences by Others influences in high places in the Police and Sheriffs dept. each . . Then different situation was a member of a nextdoor app in my citys neighbourhood. Of a ongoing source of crime by a ex felon in my immediate neighbourhood who developed a small working gang , drugs and alkies after he got out of prison. Living 2 doors down from my home ,when I lived there .So I reported it publically on their nextdoor app there. After the police would not act upon ,what I was seeing, Including people driving up at night to this guys step moms house, who was elderly. But keenly understood social manipulation. All the while selling meth out of her backyard . Whom had a older friend who , i was not aware of living immediately on my otherside of my house .Whom had two children ,46 & 50 yrs old .living at home. Whom were helping them to know, when other neighbours were not home in order to burglarize ,neighbours houses .
Going through peoples backyards that were connected. .Destroying fences,for ease of access. I watched this in wee hours of the morning. zBut these adult childrens moms and . Convinced the police that this was not happening. And the deer were destroying 4 different houses fences over 200 ft. At night and just coincidences these yards were all, nextdoor to their houses. So I ended up getting stalked . And got kicked off the local neighbourhood Nextdoor app. between two murders I had been witness to either directly or by circumstances,and was never called to testify at those trials.Kinda kills your belief in law enforcement . Nothing like a little extra disillusionment in life.maybe just bad coincidences for me..btw my friend later tells me that Sheriffs and PD do not hire people with high IQs than 100,& prefer lower . Maybe not exactly the same as topic here but similiar concept ,I thought .