Seeking perspective.

[brenmw]

It's long setup, I'm sorry. I am not on the autism spectrum (I don't believe) but I do have moderate-severe ADHD so there is some overlap in symptoms. Having a ND brain, I found a lot of similarities in the way my brain worked compared with my former romantic interest. However, I am having trouble uncovering what it is like to experience a difference in empathy or I suppose a difference in interpreting other people's thoughts/intentions. I was recently seeing a person who is on the spectrum. He is a brilliant, lovely person who received his diagnosis earlier this year. During our first conversation, he expressed his diagnosis and informed me he was still learning about it. We had many long positive conversations, and I felt we truly connected. Overtime, he shared alot of intimate details about his life with me. He is going through several challenges presently, especially while in the process of a divorce and ongoing custody battle. He told me he was not ready to be in a relationship and was not sure if he would ever be. I respected this and informed him that I was happy to still support him however he needed. Let me back up a little-- after our first date, we had a discussion about STDs. I told him I have none but do get cold sores, as in HSV 1, on my lips which I've had since 4 years old. Fast forward to 2 and a half months later. Even after we chose to be friends, we were still somewhat physical with each other and had kissed while hanging out one day. A day later, he texted me and noted I had a sore on my mouth, and now he had one. I did not have an active cold sore at the time but I have a skin picking disorder and understood he was talking about one of my scabs. I explained this to him and he seemed satisfied with that answer and didn't bring it up again. A week later, I went to his house to comfort him after he received some bad news from his divorce attorney. We did kiss again that night and we had a really sweet good time together, inspite of his circumstances. About every other day after that final time we hung out, we would talk on the phone for several hours. One night, he called me and was the happiest he had sounded since I've known him. We had a delightful conversation for 4 hours on the phone. Toward the end of our phone call, he said he needed to talk to me. He then very calmly reiterated that he saw a sore on my face and now he believed he was developing cold sores. He asked me what I thought he should do. I responded, saying "that is really weird, I didn't have a cold sore. You've never gotten them before?" That is when a switch flipped and he was like a different person. He cursed me out, hung up on me and told me he was blocking me from his life. He then blocked me on his phone. I couldn't get a word in to even ask a question, let alone defend myself. I made a mistake and went to his house to try and talk to him. He refused and it ended poorly. Over the course of the next week, there was a lot of nasty texting on both ends. He vehemently held to his determination that I knowingly and intentionally passed herpes to him. He called me horrible names and laughed at me when i cried. I was dumb founded, so confused, and of course very hurt. I want to be angry; I've never been treated so poorly, but i also cant make sense of the situation. Did he invent this to push me away because he felt he overshared or how could he have arrived at this conclusion? (He called me a demon and a liar several times. I couldn't believe it). I'm not sure if the other stressors played a role or if I didnt communicate effectively. I am confident that he believes his perception of the events is accurate. I just don't understand why. I am in a tailspin with the events which were so abrupt and I know he will not be giving me any answers. Is there anyone that can help enlighten me? I just want to understand. Is this an issue of empathy and autism, did I communicate poorly? Or do we think this is just a personal issue for him that he needs to work through. (Also, I do know you can pass HSV1 without an outbreak, I just thought it was much less common than it is and I was open about that from the beginning which is why this has all felt very confusing.) As an ADHDer I have a tendency to ruminate. I'm just hoping to gain some perspective that will help me learn and put this behind me. That was a lot, I hope it makes sense and thank you if you made it to the bottom of this post!

 

[Richelle-H]

Hello @brenmw and welcome to the forums. Empathy is one of those strange voids that accompany some of us on the spectrum. It is hard to relate on some levels. I am sorry to hear of the horrible way you were treated. There was a bit of an overreaction in evidence to my way of thinking and that is not your fault. You informed him of the risks and he chose to take his chances. You were being honest at the time in that you had no open sores. To then spew vitriol and place all the blame on you is rather immature in my humble opinion.

You were open and honest and from my viewpoint the onus for what happened is on him. I would stop stressing about it and hold on to that honesty, it will serve you well in future relationships. Sorry I can offer no true words of wisdom, but you need to let it go or it will add to the already abundant stresses that life throws at everyone.

Be well and true to yourself.

 

[Bolletje]

My two cents: you didn't do anything wrong here. The man not only overreacted but treated you in an inexcusable (for me at least) way. No need to ruminate on what you could have done differently.

I wish you the best and hope for more emotionally stable people to cross your path in the future

 

[Suzanne]

I wonder if he has health anxiety? Due to his sheer overreaction and wow, poor you, having to deal with his cruelty towards you.

It is the worse, when one cries and the other laughs.

Anyway, has others are saying: you were very clear with him; so it is down to him and not you.

On a side note: it is interesting what you say about ADHD and ASD, because I study with a lady ( bible study) and her youngest daugher has ADHD and there are similarites, but also marked differences and the more I investigate the more I feel that it is either one or the other one and not both.

My student tells me that she sees a lot of her daughter's habits in me, but also, sees differences.

Personally, I would say, respect your self and not get involved any longer with this disrespect man.

 

[Stuttermabolur]

Mistreating others, throwing insults and laughing at someone who is crying are not symptoms of autism. While he might be on the spectrum, I suspect he is co-morbid with some mental illness, perhaps related to delusions, anxiety or paranoia (perhaps related to upbringing with this "demon" comment).

I agree with others that you did nothing wrong and shouldn't seek out further contact with the person. I am sorry this ended so cruelly, and hope you'll manage to recover sooner rather than later.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

When people show you who they are, believe them. The intensity of his cruelty is disturbing. Also, consider that he may have had the virus already resident in his nerve cells and his anxiety may have activated it. That is not unknown. Run like the wind away from such a horrible person.

 

[Nervous Rex]

I agree with everyone here, but want to add one thing:

It's a huge red flag how quickly he flipped from being kind to being abusive. That abusive side was always there and is probably the reason why he's getting divorced.

Some people use overwhelming kindness to win someone over, then slowly become abusive when they feel like they have enough control over the person. Others barely manage to mask their meanness and let it slip out. And others are just prone to mood swings. I'm not a psychologist so I can't say if this guy is a narcissist, an abuser, a gaslighter, or just plain mean - but whatever he is, it's not good.

This time he blew up over a cold sore, but it could have been about anything - any little thing that sets him off, doesn't go his way, or upsets him. You are lucky to see this early on in the relationship. Get out. Get away. Block him and forget him.

 

[Hypnalis]

I think there's another possible interpretation here.

OPs entire story hangs on the exact nature of the early discussions about STD's and "Cold Sores".

The beginning of the story:

OP knows they're carrying a highly infectious, incurable, chronic viral disease caused by HSV1, presenting as cold sores. Note that HSV1 can present in other ways, including as an STD.

Clearly OP has a duty to explain to their partner the presence the virus and the consequences of catching it.
This has to be done with both parties calm, sober, and attentive. The carrier must explain clearly, and confirm with the other party that they fully understand what they've been told.

Comment:
It's not clear this was done correctly,. It's certainly the kind of thing where unshared assumptions or different communication styles can lead to communication failure.

The end of the story:

A dramatic phone call occurs.
During the call OP's ex-Partner (ex-P) asks a question about Cold Sores, because they believe they have one.
... and suddenly, "out of nowhere" ...
ex-P unloads on OP, and terminates the relationship.

There's an obvious inconsistently - why did ex-partner have to ask that question?


Comments:

I don't believe the truth can be found here. As best we'll only see one side of the story.

ex-Partner has good reason to be unhappy about catching HSV1, especially presented as cold sores.

Assuming ex-P is a responsible human:
* They cannot kiss their young child/children again. More generally they must be very careful about physical contact until the kid(s) are old enough to manage the issue themselves by avoiding close contact with ex-P.
* Because of the kid(s), ex-P will have to reveal this to their current wife immediately. The timing is exceptionally poor, as they're engaged in divorce proceedings and a custody battle. This is likely to have major negative consequences for ex-P.
* ex-P will have to tell all future potential romantic partners about this infection.

I'm not at all surprised that ex-Partner was unhappy, and was prepared to call OP a very bad person.
Given the consequences, I'd also be inclined to give ex-P a break on the intensity of the discussion.
:
:
I doubt we'll get the full picture here. OTOH I'd like to see this processed through Reddit "AITA".

FWIW I've seen something quite similar there. Cold sores and a baby that time - I don't remember if the baby was actually infected. IIRC Reddit took a very strongly negative position regarding the disease vector and their family.

 

[Rodafina]

Mistreating others, throwing insults and laughing at someone who is crying are not symptoms of autism. While he might be on the spectrum, I suspect he is co-morbid with some mental illness, perhaps related to delusions, anxiety or paranoia (perhaps related to upbringing with this "demon" comment).

Thank you for making this point.

@brenmw, I don’t want to be misunderstood, so I will be clear that I have compassion for you, and agree with what others have said here in support. But, it’s just so interesting how many people come here and ask about their autistic ex partner, who did all these horrible things… Understanding horrible things through the lens of autism does not seem like it would be accurate or helpful. If you read well into the posts of autistic men here, you will see despite many many challenges they have faced, there is nothing cruel about them. Lacking empathy, misunderstanding emotions, shutting down… None of these things add up to cruelty unless you are separately a cruel person. Sometimes we fumble through these things very inadeptly, but we can still show that we care.

good luck and much compassion to you, OP.

 

[brenmw]

I wonder if he has health anxiety? Due to his sheer overreaction and wow, poor you, having to deal with his cruelty towards you.

It is the worse, when one cries and the other laughs.

Anyway, has others are saying: you were very clear with him; so it is down to him and not you.

On a side note: it is interesting what you say about ADHD and ASD, because I study with a lady ( bible study) and her youngest daugher has ADHD and there are similarites, but also marked differences and the more I investigate the more I feel that it is either one or the other one and not both.

My student tells me that she sees a lot of her daughter's habits in me, but also, sees differences.

Personally, I would say, respect your self and not get involved any longer with this disrespect man.

Thank you for that! I would agree similarities but marked differences. Both my ex-partner and best friend's son are have co-diagnoses of ASD and ADHD. I think they can look alike because both affect executive function. (Preface: of course these are just my experience. I know that we are all individuals and a diagnosis doesn't determine personality, environment, and preference). Some of the similarities I have noticed personally have been overstimulation, certain sound and sensory sensitivities, hyper-focus, (secret) stimming, and emotional regulation. Differences in those I know with ASD are special interests while present- mine can change every 5 seconds lol, definitely less attention to detail and organization. I also don't know if this is common for ASD as well but my time-management is probably my biggest weakness. I read somewhere (cannot remember the source so not a whole lot of credibility/insight) but there was a study done and it showed there were significant, elevated amounts of white matter in both the brains of individuals with ASD or ADHD. What is white matter? No clue, I was onto the next subject within 30 seconds, surprise. But anyways I love exploring other ND brains and their experiences. I just want to know how they work! Thank you though for your words I really appreciate them and am feeling better about things already

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Thank you for making this point.

@brenmw, I don’t want to be misunderstood, so I will be clear that I have compassion for you, and agree with what others have said here in support. But, it’s just so interesting how many people come here and ask about their autistic ex partner, who did all these horrible things… Understanding horrible things through the lens of autism does not seem like it would be accurate or helpful. If you read well into the posts of autistic men here, you will see despite many many challenges they have faced, there is nothing cruel about them. Lacking empathy, misunderstanding emotions, shutting down… None of these things add up to cruelty unless you are separately a cruel person. Sometimes we fumble through these things very inadeptly, but we can still show that we care.

good luck and much compassion to you, OP.

You are so right! Once on this forum I was so enraged by a man who screwed a woman from work as a competition with another guy, then tried to blame it on his autism when the mistress showed up at his house when his wife was entertaining her parents. I have rarely written such enraged, profanity laced responses in my life. It triggered me back to that 25 year old virgin who could not interest women. He demonstrated his ethical failings so thoroughly. He wasn't sad about what he did. He was sad that he got caught. Were he in front of me I do not think I could have contained myself to perform a Bobbit right there and feed it to the rats.

 

[Matthias]

It sounds like he is emotionally immature which is common in people with autism. There's nothing you can do about it. He would need to see a therapist and have to want to get better to resolve his emotional issues.

 

[brenmw]

Thank you for making this point.

@brenmw, I don’t want to be misunderstood, so I will be clear that I have compassion for you, and agree with what others have said here in support. But, it’s just so interesting how many people come here and ask about their autistic ex partner, who did all these horrible things… Understanding horrible things through the lens of autism does not seem like it would be accurate or helpful. If you read well into the posts of autistic men here, you will see despite many many challenges they have faced, there is nothing cruel about them. Lacking empathy, misunderstanding emotions, shutting down… None of these things add up to cruelty unless you are separately a cruel person. Sometimes we fumble through these things very inadeptly, but we can still show that we care.

good luck and much compassion to you, OP.

Thank you, I appreciate your wisdom. I had a lot of hesitancy in posting my question because I feared that it would seem I was reducing a person to their diagnosis and that was not my goal. I really don't believe he is a cruel person or meant to be. I believe in his mind, his actions were justified because he believed the things he said to me. It felt horrible to me at the time, but I don't believe that he is a horrible person. I hate to leave something feeling like nothing was learned and there was no growth. I am adept at understanding a person's intention, motives, and usually what they are feeling (not always). One of my greatest strengths is empathy (not necessarily kindness, just getting people). I just didn't realize how much I relied on the way NTs (although I am not NT) express there emotions for me to read those cues. I guess my ultimate goal is to better understand because while I don't have ASD, I do live in a world that was not designed for me to succeed. It is so frustrating! My experience is not the same, but I want to connect with and at least try to meet others where they are. I don't know if that makes any sense at all but I am definitely going to spend time reading other posts on here because I think that will help me in this quest. Thank you for sharing!

 

[brenmw]

I think there's another possible interpretation here.

OPs entire story hangs on the exact nature of the early discussions about STD's and "Cold Sores".

The beginning of the story:

OP knows they're carrying a highly infectious, incurable, chronic viral disease caused by HSV1, presenting as cold sores. Note that HSV1 can present in other ways, including as an STD.

Clearly OP has a duty to explain to their partner the presence the virus and the consequences of catching it.
This has to be done with both parties calm, sober, and attentive. The carrier must explain clearly, and confirm with the other party that they fully understand what they've been told.

Comment:
It's not clear this was done correctly,. It's certainly the kind of thing where unshared assumptions or different communication styles can lead to communication failure.

The end of the story:

A dramatic phone call occurs.
During the call OP's ex-Partner (ex-P) asks a question about Cold Sores, because they believe they have one.
... and suddenly, "out of nowhere" ...
ex-P unloads on OP, and terminates the relationship.

There's an obvious inconsistently - why did ex-partner have to ask that question?


Comments:

I don't believe the truth can be found here. As best we'll only see one side of the story.

ex-Partner has good reason to be unhappy about catching HSV1, especially presented as cold sores.

Assuming ex-P is a responsible human:
* They cannot kiss their young child/children again. More generally they must be very careful about physical contact until the kid(s) are old enough to manage the issue themselves by avoiding close contact with ex-P.
* Because of the kid(s), ex-P will have to reveal this to their current wife immediately. The timing is exceptionally poor, as they're engaged in divorce proceedings and a custody battle. This is likely to have major negative consequences for ex-P.
* ex-P will have to tell all future potential romantic partners about this infection.

I'm not at all surprised that ex-Partner was unhappy, and was prepared to call OP a very bad person.
Given the consequences, I'd also be inclined to give ex-P a break on the intensity of the discussion.
:
:
I doubt we'll get the full picture here. OTOH I'd like to see this processed through Reddit "AITA".

FWIW I've seen something quite similar there. Cold sores and a baby that time - I don't remember if the baby was actually infected. IIRC Reddit took a very strongly negative position regarding the disease vector and their family.

I think there's another possible interpretation here.

OPs entire story hangs on the exact nature of the early discussions about STD's and "Cold Sores".

The beginning of the story:

OP knows they're carrying a highly infectious, incurable, chronic viral disease caused by HSV1, presenting as cold sores. Note that HSV1 can present in other ways, including as an STD.

Clearly OP has a duty to explain to their partner the presence the virus and the consequences of catching it.
This has to be done with both parties calm, sober, and attentive. The carrier must explain clearly, and confirm with the other party that they fully understand what they've been told.

Comment:
It's not clear this was done correctly,. It's certainly the kind of thing where unshared assumptions or different communication styles can lead to communication failure.

The end of the story:

A dramatic phone call occurs.
During the call OP's ex-Partner (ex-P) asks a question about Cold Sores, because they believe they have one.
... and suddenly, "out of nowhere" ...
ex-P unloads on OP, and terminates the relationship.

There's an obvious inconsistently - why did ex-partner have to ask that question?


Comments:

I don't believe the truth can be found here. As best we'll only see one side of the story.

ex-Partner has good reason to be unhappy about catching HSV1, especially presented as cold sores.

Assuming ex-P is a responsible human:
* They cannot kiss their young child/children again. More generally they must be very careful about physical contact until the kid(s) are old enough to manage the issue themselves by avoiding close contact with ex-P.
* Because of the kid(s), ex-P will have to reveal this to their current wife immediately. The timing is exceptionally poor, as they're engaged in divorce proceedings and a custody battle. This is likely to have major negative consequences for ex-P.
* ex-P will have to tell all future potential romantic partners about this infection.

I'm not at all surprised that ex-Partner was unhappy, and was prepared to call OP a very bad person.
Given the consequences, I'd also be inclined to give ex-P a break on the intensity of the discussion.
:
:
I doubt we'll get the full picture here. OTOH I'd like to see this processed through Reddit "AITA".

FWIW I've seen something quite similar there. Cold sores and a baby that time - I don't remember if the baby was actually infected. IIRC Reddit took a very strongly negative position regarding the disease vector and their family.

I completely agree, I absolutely hate the position it has put him in with his child. I will say that our conversation about STDs was not limited to one, but the first talk- I informed him of HSV1 over the phone we were both sober. I was later tested for STDs, as I do whenever I am with a new partner, and shared those results with him. In regard to this scenario, he maintained that I was not truthful about the scab on my face, and insisted that it was an active cold sore which he purported I had lied to him about its presence. I am certain he believes this to be true. I am glad you made this post because it helps me understand that there was indeed an error in communication which is something I want to improve upon. Now I do disagree with you- I'm not a bad person (at least in this context). I didn't believe myself to be acting irresponsibly and I thought I had been open in a way that was understood. It's clear that neither of us fully understood the risks. I have at least learned a lot more about having HSV1 and the ways it is transmitted. I now understand how to better mitigate risk and share this information. Thank you for your insight on the situation

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I do live in a world that was not designed for me to succeed. It is so frustrating! My experience is not the same, but I want to connect with and at least try to meet others where they are. I don't know if that makes any sense at all

BRAVO! It makes absolute sense. My take is that you want to be accepting, and you are so beautiful because of it. Ask practically any here in a good relationship and I'd bet acceptance is at the top of the list for positive values. Acceptance leads to communication, the glue that binds any relationship. But you need not accept toxic jerks.

I hope some basically shy yet quirky and intelligent guy will fight his anxiety to express an interest in you even as such guys are not very forward. The strain was very great when, nearly 26, I first asked a woman out. I walked into her lab, probably very stiffly, and blurted out "Let's go out to Windsor for some good Chinese and watch fireworks on the river after." I was floored when she said, yes. I was never very suave.

 

[Rodafina]

My experience is not the same, but I want to connect with and at least try to meet others where they are.

This is an amazing gift to give anyone you come across! Wish there was more of this in the world.

 

[Hypnalis]

Now I do disagree with you- I'm not a bad person (at least in this context).

Actually I didn't say you're a bad person. I said your ex-partner did, based on your words.
I don't know whether you're a bad person or not, and I doubt I ever will.
But I'm skeptical by nature and by training, so I find the internal inconsistencies in your original post jarring.

It doesn't matter though:
- The damage to your ex-partner is already done. Hopefully the "worst case" scenario doesn't come to pass.
- You've realized the relationship ended when ex-P said it was over - it's as much "closure" as you'll get from them.


A couple of incidental questions I'd like answers to, but you should only answer if you want to:

* Why were you surprised to be treated poorly, given ex-P's perception of events?
* Why did you think ex-P being ASD1 might have influenced their behavior towards you?
* Was ex-P living alone when you visited?

It's probably obvious to you, but for clarity: the answers will influence your "good/bad person score" in my eyes

 

[brenmw]

Actually I didn't say you're a bad person. I said your ex-partner did, based on your words.
I don't know whether you're a bad person or not, and I doubt I ever will.
But I'm skeptical by nature and by training, so I find the internal inconsistencies in your original post jarring.

It doesn't matter though:
- The damage to your ex-partner is already done. Hopefully the "worst case" scenario doesn't come to pass.
- You've realized the relationship ended when ex-P said it was over - it's as much "closure" as you'll get from them.


A couple of incidental questions I'd like answers to, but you should only answer if you want to:

* Why were you surprised to be treated poorly, given ex-P's perception of events?
* Why did you think ex-P being ASD1 might have influenced their behavior towards you?
* Was ex-P living alone when you visited?

It's probably obvious to you, but for clarity: the answers will influence your "good/bad person score" in my eyes

That is a fair point. I'm really not trying to gain vindication or validation. I am a good person at times and a bad person at others. I wanted to try and understand his thinking and after reading through articles, I still felt confused. I do want to answer your questions though, I think they are important at what I had aimed to accomplish here, which is understanding.

- I think I was surprised for a couple of reasons. Having not had a cold sore, but knowing that he was aware I have HSV1, I thought it was possible that he was feeling anxious that he may have developed symptoms when he had not. I believed this initially, because he had a lot of anxiety and there were other instances during our time together where he would express feeling anxious. For example, after I shared my negative results with him, he would still report being worried about STDs (unrelated to the HSV1). I would ask him what specifically he was worried about and we would reiterate the details of our first STD conversation together. This happened a few times. So when he brought up the cold sore, I thought that it may be his anxiety that was causing him to feel like he had developed symptoms. There were of course other areas of his life he would indicate feeling anxious about, this was just the most relevant example I could deduce.

Additionally, after he asked about the cold sore and my scab, we got together in person. I did not see any indication that he had any cold sores present and he did not comment on having any issues. This was only 5 days between our previous engagement. At that time, I assumed that my initial judgement was correct.

My second reason for being surprised, was that we had been talking with one another frequently. He was opening up to me about very intimate and difficult subjects in his life. I felt we were building trust. When we had our final phone call, we had been in various other discussions for four hours. He then announced that the "problem" isn't going away and he believed it to be getting worse. This is when I thought for the first time, that this may not be due to his anxiety. I suppose my initial question may have offended him but it wasn't my intent. I was trying to get to the root of the problem. I didn't know where this outbreak was located or what it looked like to know what could be going on. He asked me to help him and I began asking questions because I was in problem solving mode. After I asked that question he replied "**** off" and of course he mentioned not being able to kiss his daughter. That breaks my heart and I feel for him. I just didn't understand why he shutdown and was so unwilling to have a conversation. You are actually being the best therapist to me right now because I am realizing a few things in responding to your question. I think he has been burned by others, he also says he is trained to be leery, and so maybe it was easy to assume that I intentionally mislead him in some way- regardless of how I (at least tried) to show-up for him.

- Second question- I thought this might relate to his diagnosis because there were instances where I said one thing and he would interpret it to mean something far-off from what I had intended. It's interesting, I believed myself to be a direct person and not leave anything up to "in between the lines" but sometimes it is really hard to see how we are in fact communicating based on what we know. I didn't realize how reliant I am on the ways NTs communicate, that I missed some of the ways I was not communicating effectively. I only was made aware of this when he explained his interpretation of something I said; otherwise, I would have remained blissfully ignorant believing my point had been successfully received. So I thought, that likely there was something I missed here. That I didn't spell out exactly what I meant or that maybe (he loses focus sometimes as do I) that I didn't verify with him he understood.

-Last question- I would like to preface this by saying that going to his house was a mistake, as in absolutely wrong and a bad thing for me to do. I hate to give an explanation because I think it dilutes an apology or in this case an acknowledgement of a wrong doing. He did live alone but he does have his daughter 50% of the time. I went to his house immediately after the fight, when we had hung up and had blocked me on his phone. At the time I felt it wasn't fair that he reacted the way he did and then blocked me without allowing me to state my piece. I knew that he was alone, that his daughter was not there, and I would never ever risk going to his house when she is there. So I felt this was my only shot to try and have a conversation face to face. It, however, was wrong. Whether it was fair or unfair that he blocked me, he did so to terminate contact. I should have respected that boundary. I was very angry and upset, but we are tempted not compelled. I should have used better judgement.