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Should you try to challenge yourself and be more flexible or stick to routines

epath13

the Fool.The Magician.The...
V.I.P Member
I've been a big fan of an idea that people on the spectrum should challenge themselves and possibly try to be more flexible or even more spontaneous. But now I start doubting that it's a good idea. I personally seem to be more relaxed and productive when I have a routine, when things are done at certain time in a certain way. You can only try for that long to challenge yourself and fail before you would get frustrated and give up.... But then again, it seems it takes longer for people on the spectrum to learn some things... So how many futile attempts would be too many? And should you even do it? For instance, even with medication I still have problems driving at night sometimes. I could challenge myself just to prove that I can improve over time or I can just limit driving after sunset. One more thing, it's much easier for me to be in control and tell people what to do, give people directions and instructions, rather than try to figure out what they want from me, what they want me to do and often fail to interpret their directions.... I know there always have to be a reason for challenging yourself, and I'm wondering if I'm really trying o challenge myself for me or to please others or fit in? Where would be that perfect balance between improving your inborn strength or accommodate your inborn needs and developing new skills?
Some might say it's all about believing in yourself, but I'm wondering if ir's worth it to chase dreams that may never come true or try to develop skills that may take most of your life to develop. You might waste so much time, instead you could have concentrated on improving given talents, abilities and skills...

Hope I expressed myself clearly enough :) that's all I can say right now... Tired :) hope you guys have something to say about it :)
 
Being flexible.. the ugly word, lol

To me there's 2 kinds of flexible. There's the "I can try to be flexible"... or the voluntary flexibility. On the other hand there's the forced flexibility.

If you're aiming for something you want to try for yourself, that's fine. You can gauge what you can take and subsequently stop if you think it's demanding too much.

The forced flexibility, that's where I think you're not challenging yourself, but you're just doing it to please others.

Another thing you might consider if it comes to routines is if you really need to change them. Sometimes routines don't need changing cause they work optimal for you. I don't believe in challenging yourself just for the sake of a challenge, I believe in challenging myself to improve.

And of course there's the time aspect. Do I have time to challenge myself? If I have to change my routines in college, do I have time for that. The semester doesn't stop for me. If my experiment fails, I'm stuck with lots of catching up to do. Thus you can wonder; was it that smart? Hence; don't fix what ain't broken.

Here's an interesting thing a therapist once told me; and that's something that happened to me.

To do A, change B, to do B, change C, to do C, change D, to do D, change E... they're all interconnected like a cascade. Then, to figure out when I'm at Z, that Z cannot be changed a lot (due to whatever reason) and I have to climb back up. That's how I failed the formal routes of gaining knowledge and crafts (aka college). Do you blame yourself for trying and failing? Do you pat yourself on the back and say "hey, at least I tried"? And do you take such situations with more precaution in the future and try to be more careful? Or do you try again and again, with the chance of failing?
 
I think having a routine and not being flexible is a good thing. Often, we see that those who are extremely flexible are disorganized, waste time, illogical, etc.

My routines are efficient and don't waste time. I am open to change if they can be improved. Aspies are dedicated, can work for hours where the NT will have to stop and socialize. Just look at all the positive qualities of Apies (Many in the 12 books I am reading).

I have learned to be flexible if needed and it comes easier with age. Example, my wife wants to go out on a date. Drop daughter off at grandmothers. In my mind I just say from 4PM to 12PM whatever she wants to do is fine. I block that time off as hers. She can choose were to have dinner, what movie to see and I am fine with it. I know I can fall back into my routine when I get home.

I am not like a person with ADHD, I complete what I start, have one or two obsessed interests. I would say that I am very relaxed (non-hyper). Focused and can spend lots of time doing one thing. I am not like the person who has 30 cups of coffee all jittery.

Another example, I always put my wallet and keys in my desk drawer. I know where everything is at all times because everything has a place. I can't tell you how many times my wife has lost her cell phone, misplaced her keys, can't find a book or her glasses. My glasses always go back in the case in I am not wearing them. So if that is what is meant by flexible screw it. I am glad I don't spend hours looking for stuff.

Bill
 
I think having a routine and not being flexible is a good thing. Often, we see that those who are extremely flexible are disorganized, waste time, illogical, etc.

My routines are efficient and don't waste time. I am open to change if they can be improved. Aspies are dedicated, can work for hours where the NT will have to stop and socialize. Just look at all the positive qualities of Apies (Many in the 12 books I am reading).

I have learned to be flexible if needed and it comes easier with age. Example, my wife wants to go out on a date. Drop daughter off at grandmothers. In my mind I just say from 4PM to 12PM whatever she wants to do is fine. I block that time off as hers. She can choose were to have dinner, what movie to see and I am fine with it. I know I can fall back into my routine when I get home.

I am not like a person with ADHD, I complete what I start, have one or two obsessed interests. I would say that I am very relaxed (non-hyper). Focused and can spend lots of time doing one thing. I am not like the person who has 30 cups of coffee all jittery.

Another example, I always put my wallet and keys in my desk drawer. I know where everything is at all times because everything has a place. I can't tell you how many times my wife has lost her cell phone, misplaced her keys, can't find a book or her glasses. My glasses always go back in the case in I am not wearing them. So if that is what is meant by flexible screw it. I am glad I don't spend hours looking for stuff.

Bill

The biggest problem I see with having routine is that it's really susceptible to being disturbed. There's a ton of things I like to do, but if there's reasons why I cannot do this (for instance; I have to research things and use the internet, but if the internet either is way too slow, or just fails on me completely) then I'm out of my routine and my mind starts grinding into alternatives. Having a routine is one thing, but having it not be efficient cause of outside causes is another.

Also, another thing I'm having with routines, and with what you say is where NT's might socialize, yes, totally true. But I know that I can obsess in an efficient way on something. That turns into forgetting to eat, forgetting to sleep and being occupied with one thing, for over 24 hours straight. And yes I've had this. And to be honest, even bodily functions require me to be flexible towards... well "nature". That social aspect I'm quite happy for that I don't care for it.

As for the kids example you mention. I do think, that this comes with choosing those responsibilities. I choose not to have kids nor pets, just because I know they will mess with my personal agenda. However; I like what you said when you're going out with your wife. I'm a bit like that. If I tend to go somewhere with someone (a friend, my girlfriend or whatever), I do plan a bit ahead a bit in terms of a timeframe and such, but I'm not as stressed out about having a routine to it. Don't know if it's really routine actually... but I can try to at least let go some of my mental occupations for a few hours and try to enjoy what I'm doing with person X. The only thing I'm usually stressed out is things like catching a train or bus on time in terms of not being stuck somewhere and not getting back home, but that's really a practical note.

Well, I (apparently to a therapist) have ADHD, so I'm usually a storm all day, each day. But with that I'm also an aspie with obsessions and deep interests. I'm focused AND hyper. To me that gets **** done, and that's also a reason why I don't want to take meds. Yes sometimes things get lost in the warp (or chaos). To put it in perspective, my girlfriend has ADHD as well, and she's really worn out by spending a day with me cause I'm way more intense... in a relaxing and funny way though. And still I'm the one who can place things in order and have a solid plan about what we're gonna do. I'm also the person who can sit still for 3 hours and watch a movie, which for her is difficult even if she's on meds.

As for having things have a place. About 90% of my things I can pinpoint where they are... with no set place. I can come home, throw my wallet somewhere, and it takes me about 5 seconds to remember where it was. I live in a mess, there's piles everywhere, but I know what lies in which pile on which table. However, I cannot stand it if people move my piles around, because that messes with my mental dynamic file cabinet.

So in that effect, my routine is a personal chaos of sorts, that works out fine for me. Sometimes it reminds people of that Drunken master fighting style, but just replace fighting with "living". I might seem like a incoherent mess most of the time, but actually I have a really good understanding of what I'm actually doing. That kind of thing I have going on, also makes it rather difficult to function in jobs, because they want you to be flexible in "their" chaos. I cannot function in other peoples routines, how messy that routine might be. Cause I might obsess over it and try to correct it the way I want it, which in effect gets me into trouble cause I'm messing up other peoples living (which in a way is also the thing they're doing with mine).
 
You guys got some good points there. I haven't really looked at "training" myself to be more flexible or challenging myself as at a path to improvement, so to speak. I might have tried to convince others, and possibly myself, that I do it in order to improve, but now I'm wondering if it's really true... It seems that I've done it (and still do it) for the sake of the challenge itself. And partially to please other as well. I guess it's a kind of a weird combination of both. I remember, as a kid, when somebody said that they couldn't do something, I often came forward saying, "I can". Just to show off :) And because people around me, for some reason didn't usually wait for me to figure out what is the best way to do things or what I actually want, they started telling me what to do and even what I want, I kind of got stuck in that pattern. In some sort of a cycle going from challenging myself by doing something with no long term purpose, just for the sake of a challenge and doing what others tell me. I'm looking at this right now, thinking, that's so screwed up, why did I get myself into this mess and how am I going to get out? :)

I actually didn't even realize that routines made me comfortable until I got diagnosed in 2010. I didn't even think it was possible, imagine that :) if you look at it from a different angle a little bit, it's almost as if I discovered that it's possible to be comfortable with who you are, and the discovery was baffling.

I think my problem is that I've been told all my life who I was, and I felt that I needed to follow their rules because I had no choice, or should I say my other choice would be sitting with my eyes closed listening to silence, being in some sort of a suspended state, waiting for the life to pass.

I guess figuring out what is the best way to do things is just a part of a problem, I guess the bigger issue is that I still have to find out who, what I actually am. I feel like a 3 dimensional puzzle (if puzzles had feelings :) ) that's sort of exploded, or some kitten's dropped the box with pieces, and now pieces are all over the place and I have to put myself together somehow using intention, because I have nothing else available :)

Wondering how do people decide who they are, and what they want to do, how can they be so confident about their decisions? Why am I so confused? It almost feels like a part of my brain is missing or stuck that would allow me to do that :)
I'm wondering if my younger son's feeling that way, unsure what he wants what he's interested in, running on impulse, on sparks of sudden excitement ...
 
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King_Oni

You make some good points and the ADHD is a plus for you. I wish at times I had that energy to boost me or refuel m efforts. I have a boss that has papers all over. Some people like the room like a tornado hit it, but they know where everything is and if it was put away in a file they would be at a loss.

epath13
I hate rules unless they are logical and make sense otherwise I break them, hence I was always in trouble at school.

Unfortunately there is no right answer, but if it works for you? I am overly organized. I like the rooms in the house to look like a picture in one of those magazines. I get very emotional about it. I love those designer and remodeling shows. I used to take pictures of the rooms in our house and say to my wife this is what they should look like, anything changes I will remove the offending item.

People would love to play games with me, anything touched or moved slightly in a room I would put it back where it was suppose to be. Anything crooked on the desk or if the floor mat does not line up perfectly with the lines in the wood floor I can't work. Everything is clean and spotless.

I also got thrown out of college because because I vacuumed my dorm room too much. I did this mostly when everyone was in class, had my own private room as did everyone.

Bill
 
If I have routines they exist for a reason. I am not to keen on being flexible, that is, having a heavy hand in other people's routines or suggestions.

Logically, it may be a good idea to be more spontaneous or less routine-ridden, but that is only in theory.

Everyone has routine and prefers no change-- Aspie or not.

Why would it be wrong that I prefer my routines and controlled environment lest it affects someone directly?
 
I have found that being flexible has actually given me more choices and freedom, not less. The funny thing is I am much more flexible than some of my "normal" friends.

Anyway, it's a matter of emotional survival. If I don't make myself get out of my routine then I am prone to depression, alcoholism, and yes, suicidal thoughts. I lie awake at night and brood. I need something to keep my mind off me.
 
Unfortunately there is no right answer, but if it works for you? I am overly organized. I like the rooms in the house to look like a picture in one of those magazines. I get very emotional about it. I love those designer and remodeling shows. I used to take pictures of the rooms in our house and say to my wife this is what they should look like, anything changes I will remove the offending item.

I actually like highly organized environments the only problem I have with them, when things change you need to reorganize. I was able to keep some things in our house organized in a particular manner because their functions and, should I say, importance don't change. As for everything else, it's hard to keep it organized. I have a theory it's because we have hard time deciding what part those things play in our life, if their influence on our life is consistent enough, if they support or contradict our position in life, our goals, dreams etc. For kids it's the same thing, and kids might be even more confused, they haven't had a chance to choose a direction yet, or maybe they're not sure about the direction.

For me it would be the same as choosing design style or music style (hopefully you guys can see the connection, sometimes I'm a little vague:) ) as an artist I like harmony in any style but do I have personal preferences, something that speaks to me? Sometimes I feel like country (design wise), to cuddle up in it's coziness, sometimes I feel like ultra modern because it's refreshing and straight to the point, sometimes I don't mind simple contemporary (which I'm living in now :) ) because it's easy and undemanding.... and so on. I feel like I'm everything as long as there's harmony in it, but don't you need to make specific choices in life?...

You know what my dream is, the house that could change when you change or your life changes in a blink of an eye, ok maybe in blink of an eye in a slow motion :) sometimes I wish , there was nothing just white walls, simple square for a windows and doors... and maybe some comfy white chair in the middle... yeah....

BTW do you watch HGTV? before we bought the house we watched it all the time... then it became kinda... depressing :)

I also got thrown out of college because because I vacuumed my dorm room too much. I did this mostly when everyone was in class, had my own private room as did everyone.

did you think it wasn't clean enough? have you ever been thinking it's too much, or in your mind it was not?

It reminded me of something that I read in a book once about Asperger's, that people on the spectrum sometimes have hard time prioritizing and doing things for strangest reasons. Like for instance, when I was in college, I was thinking about quitting and going to medical school. One of the reasons why I didn't go - didn't think I could learn Latin (irrational :) ). A few reasons why I wanted to go were: I liked an idea of studying human brain, I liked visualizing it and I liked big modern hospitals :). So if I did become a doctor, and somebody asked me why, I would say, "well, I like hospitals" :)

If I have routines they exist for a reason. I am not to keen on being flexible, that is, having a heavy hand in other people's routines or suggestions.

Logically, it may be a good idea to be more spontaneous or less routine-ridden, but that is only in theory.

Everyone has routine and prefers no change-- Aspie or not.

Why would it be wrong that I prefer my routines and controlled environment lest it affects someone directly?

I agree that everyone has routines. I guess it's not specifically about routines themselves, it's about being able to adjust to change. When I was younger I was sort of like people's challenger :) I would rush into their lives saying, so let's do something. My routine back then was (when I wasn't working or studying) to wonder around looking for something exciting to do :) it didn't cross my mind that people might have plans and I was interfering with their plans. Now, I'm on the other side of ... how you call it...fence... well you get my point, I don't like when when my husband suddenly, seemingly out of nowhere wants to drive to Canada :) or when I constantly have to build my schedule around may family...but the thing is, that's normal, it's all in the way you look at it. I've actually always done it, building schedule around something just didn't pay attention to it.

So maybe it's about predictability. But if you think about it, if you take some time a observe people that you know for a little bit, you might notice that their so called unpredictable behavior, is actually very predictable. They might want to do certain things on particular days or when they are in particular mood and things like that... Then it all comes to a person's willingness to put some effort into learning about other's... I can call them routines... I guess, and their preferences, and about deciding how much of your personal energy you would like to dedicate to them. And there's one more thing, will they be willing to do the same for you? Some people have tendency disregarding everything they don't understand, if they don't understand why you need things your way not their way, they might start an argument and try to convince you that you're wrong. Yes it's not easy sometimes, especially when you need to explain yourself while you feel that you don't have to. But from my experience if you do it without anger, just by stating your position as a fact at that particular moment, even the most stubborn people might accept something that they previously haven't...

as for the controlled environment... I guess it depends on the level of structure, some need everything very well structured, some not. And I'm personally not sure which type I am. I know I get more done when my day is well structures, things are done at particular time, no compromises, but then I get inspired and as, King_Oni mentioned as well, I can also spend hours and days doing something unwilling to stop. I'm still trying to find some sort of balance between those 2.
 
I have found that being flexible has actually given me more choices and freedom, not less. The funny thing is I am much more flexible than some of my "normal" friends.

Anyway, it's a matter of emotional survival. If I don't make myself get out of my routine then I am prone to depression, alcoholism, and yes, suicidal thoughts. I lie awake at night and brood. I need something to keep my mind off me.

I'm not sure if you're talking about the same thing but sometimes I was actually thankful to people dragging me out of my plans, out my comfort zone into new experiences. Sometimes I get stuck, I need this knock on the head, so to speak, to wake up. When a person offers something new I'm usually very hesitant, I've always been this way, because I don't know what to expect. And most of the time, I just go for it, because form my experience, new things usually lead to new ideas, and generally were positive or, should I say, educational :) At those times I just, sort of, have this feeling in my gut, intuition I guess, pushing me forward to do that, to follow their lead, even if it doesn't look attractive to me in the beginning.
 
Actually, people DON'T drag me out of my plans; I have to drag myself. I don't get many invitations to things and when I invite others I tend to get excuses. I sometimes wonder if something happened to me would anyone come looking?
 
That is an awesome question.

*Sigh...* I have tried to be flexible and change my routine up a little bit, but things get ugly. I get very sad and frustrated (since one of my obsessions is computer animation, I must be on my computer all day to work on things), the only thing I can manage to do that may be considered "flexible" is my homework, because I'm used to getting it. Sometimes it's hard to get it done though.

But one time when my mom asked me to watch my little cousin when she spent the night, I had what seemed like an anxiety attack because I'd have to be away from the computer for more than 3 hours, that's torture, because that has been my routine for YEARS.
Even one night, one quick night, can send me into a panic and almost never ending sadness until I get to freely use my computer again without being annoyed/punished. I'm so glad I don't have younger siblings...

Anyway, I have tried to make good changes to my routine myself and I just can't bring myself to stick with it though... I have to do it very slowly and gradually. Like, it could seriously take me more than a year to add something new to my daily routine, yeah.

But... I don't really have an answer to that question... Well, actually I do. I think it just depends on what makes you happy, I'd recommend someone try to experiment flexibility just once or twice and if they do not like it, then I don't see the harm in staying in a comfort zone.

So whatever makes you happy! I think I am happier in my comfort zone, that's for sure. It is hard to be flexible as an Aspie though, some might like it if they try it, but it just depends on the individual.
 
But one time when my mom asked me to watch my little cousin when she spent the night, I had what seemed like an anxiety attack because I'd have to be away from the computer for more than 3 hours, that's torture, because that has been my routine for YEARS.
Even one night, one quick night, can send me into a panic and almost never ending sadness until I get to freely use my computer again without being annoyed/punished. I'm so glad I don't have younger siblings...

What I'm wondering; Is it because you are so attached to being on a computer all the time? Or is it more because you actually have to come up with stuff not involving a computer for a short while?

I know with me it's the latter. I usually have my mind on doing X and I should be doing X, and if that means I cannot use a computer, I try to find means that at least involve the thing I'm doing on my computer. So for instance; when I'm working illustrations (and I try to take them one at a time), if I cannot be at a computer (cause I'm travelling or so) I'll take out my sketchpad and line out new ideas already. So basically I'm still doing prepwork, which I could do on my computer, but don't have to.

If I had a little brother and had to watch him, that would fail totally... cause I'd be to immersed in whatever I had on my mind.
 
It is because I am so attached to the computer, I have plenty to do when I am off the computer that I enjoy (drawing, and much more), I just don't enjoy it as much and I am not as fixated on it as I am with the computer.

I do the same thing, I'm an artist as well, I usually draw characters for my animation when I'm not on the computer. I know exactly what you mean.

Yeah, I would not be good with watching little siblings either.
 
But... I don't really have an answer to that question... Well, actually I do. I think it just depends on what makes you happy, I'd recommend someone try to experiment flexibility just once or twice and if they do not like it, then I don't see the harm in staying in a comfort zone.

So whatever makes you happy! I think I am happier in my comfort zone, that's for sure. It is hard to be flexible as an Aspie though, some might like it if they try it, but it just depends on the individual.

Is it you work (the Avatar) pretty cool! do you have a website, I would love to see more.
I'm really in a complimenting mood today, wanted to send out a few more here and there, but I probably shouldn't overdo it :D

anyway, I've been returning to this question since I was about 4 years old. That's when...about that time...I decided to learn how to enjoy life and find it's meaning so to speak. I've been wondering why do we have to do so many things that don't give us any enjoyment, why can't we be happy all the time or do something that makes us happy. Then I thought but...hold on...maybe it's all in my attitude towards the world and what it requires from me. So I went back and forward from one extreme to another and everything in between just to come to a conclusion I don't know a sh.t and may never know it. Maybe it's not about knowing at all... OK, now I'm going to pull myself back to Earth for a moment and talk reality - sometimes when we get stuck in certain type of behavior (and it is especially true for people on the spectrum) it can be hard for us to believe that different, not common for us, behavior can be enjoyable. In many cases we'll never know if we don't try. It takes 3 weeks to break a habit (it's true to me, but not necessarily true for everyone :) ) , it takes several months if not years to make new behavior truly yours. The difficulties begin when we try to identify why certain behavior is necessary? who wants it from us? what are the risks and what are the benefits? how challenging it is? How different it is, how does it reflect our personality, what we believe in, our standards, our idea of perfection, if you will.
Life can become very confusing so we make choices and most of us stick to the choice that appear easy or safe. Meaning they create a so called comfort zone for us, that we so unwilling to get out of. Many people will wonder, why should they get out of their comfort zone, of the behavior that creates it... For me, and I'm only talking about my personal experience, when you feel this nagging feeling inside that you don't live up to your full potential and it's pushing and bursting out of you, then you have to get off your ass and make some changes no matter how uncomfortable they may be :)
 
Thanks! It is not my work, although I did used to draw dragons on the computer (still draw them on paper sometimes), but I have stopped doing it.
They used to look similar to that, but I could not find the files on my hardrive, so I just got that one off the internet. I thought it looked very cool. Did you make yours? It's very awesome and clever!

Yeah, I see what you mean. I think if you want to change something because you know it'll give you the better, but you can't bring yourself to do it... All I can say is find a way to push yourself or find something to motivate you! Pull yourself away and just let go! Even though it can be tough, still, if there's a will there's a way!
 
Thanks! It is not my work, although I did used to draw dragons on the computer (still draw them on paper sometimes), but I have stopped doing it.
They used to look similar to that, but I could not find the files on my hardrive, so I just got that one off the internet. I thought it looked very cool. Did you make yours? It's very awesome and clever!

Yeah, that's mine. I've made most of the avatars, or just used pieces of my artworks. Hopefully I'll finish my websites soon, they've been taking way too long :)
 
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