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Small vent about eye contact paranoia

vergil96

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
So someone I met on Monday asked me if I don't like him because I was tired after the test I had and my laptop crashed, and I didn't make eye contact with him. I consider it strage that the guy is on the spectrum himself and didn't pick up on it that if I look outside through the window while talking to him, it might have nothing to do with him and that poor eye contact means that someone probably is autistic. But he's much more visible than I am, autism doesn't affect the way I move or my facial expression (other than probably reacting to what I experience which might not be the same as what other people experience), for him it does, he also has way less social intuition than I do. He is a very keen observer of people's bahaviour, though, he seems to enjoy it a lot and has some interesting insights. To be honest with you, I would have burnt out quicker and wouldn't finish this conversation and it wouldn't have been as interesting if I had to not look into the background. I would be left exhausted. But he isn't the first person to accuse me of not liking them, because of not making eye contact and/or fidgeting. I got paranoid at this point. I guess it has to just pass. I'm just venting. And I'm feeling paranoid and self-conscous. I fried my brain to a crisp by making too much eye contact with my therapist, who probably would be the last person to think I don't like him, because I looked at a piece of furniture for the whole time. It made me feel nauseaous, I hate that.

I just didn't feel like explaining myself to the guy from university, and I wasn't doing anything consciously, I just did what I felt like doing, I don't exactly know why.
 
In all my life (over 70 years) I have never looked into anyone's eyes - ever, except for perhaps a half (or less) second in the event of an accidental glance across. However, I also never look away, out the window or anywhere else in the room. That makes the person you are conversing with feel you are not interested. Instead, I have always looked at their mouth. I have never gotten any complaints about that and it seems only a few even notice.

I have no idea what information can be realized from someones eyes??? Although that may be because I have never looked at anyone's eyes. If peoples eyes can modulate in anyway other that direction or perhaps iris apeture, I am unaware of any modulation that can express anything intelligible to me. I can't even stand looking at eyes in a photograph. I do, however get benefit from looking at their mouth.
 
However, I also never look away, out the window or anywhere else in the room. That makes the person you are conversing with feel you are not interested. Instead, I have always looked at their mouth.
Ah I see.

I have no idea what information can be realized from someones eyes???
Facial expression, I believe. But you can know it by looking anywhere on the face, at least I do. Because I see the eyes clearly no matter where on the face I look. The area around the eyes has a whole different mimic that can't be easily faked, eyes are more honest, so you can tell when someone is putting on a fake smile, for example. Also you can tell where someone is looking by looking at their eyes, I don't really know why that is useful, tho.

Eye contact is one of the mysteries of NT life that autistic folks don't have insight into. (Pun intended.)
Yeah, tbh I have no idea how good someone's eye contact is unless it's nonexistent.
 
I completely empathize with your situation. It takes a lot of energy to always be taking inventory of what we happen to be doing while we are interacting with other people, so as not to put them off, upset them or so that we do not stand out as an oddity. For this reason, I am often in what my mom refers to as "my own little world" where I can just be myself and not stress over other people. I think I can get away with that a lot living in new york city where people are often rude and self-contained due to the necessity of regard for others' personal space in a crowded environment. You cannot look people that you don't know in the eye for more than half a second, especially on the subway, or they consider it a serious invasion of their privacy. We are also surrounded by people from many different cultures who have different rules for eye contact and shaking hands. So, it is not automatically assumed that not touching people or looking them in the eye is anti-social here. Also, because of the diversity, differences are expected and accepted a lot more. I can get away with being myself more often, without being ostracized, in nyc. But when I visit other places, people often stare at me if I am not being hyper aware of myself.

I am considered a high masking aspie female. People often do not believe it if I tell them I was diagnosed with ASD. They just think I am fidgety and weird, and way too honest/ TMI but cannot figure why. I attribute this to being raised in Louisiana in the 70s where the social graces were mandatory and children were schooled in them and punished for not following certain social protocol, especially looking at an adult when they were speaking to you. So I learned how to fake it. Like you, I get really fried making eye contact or looking near people's eyes too much. But, I do try to avoid not looking in their direction when they are speaking. Like Ken, I look at people's mouths and chins a lot when they are talking. I also look at them around the forehead / eyebrow level and look away at something behind them (but near their head), sort of sweeping my gaze every few seconds across their face without letting my eyes land on theirs. I sometimes do let my eyes rest near theirs for half a second, but I defocus my eyes so I am not as overstimulated. I also will nod my head often, half smile, and say things like: mm hmm, yeah, etc to let them know I am listening to them. However, I think I am distracted by all of these social assurances that I am trying to convey to them, and I cannot listen as well as if I can just look away. When I have the most difficulty is when I am speaking. I cannot even look near their eyes or it breaks my train of thought. So, I tend to look away and let my eyes wander up above their head and down to the side like I am thinking as I speak, and I come back to their chin. I think because I move my head and eyes around a lot, they don't notice I am not making eye contact. But, I am not sure if they do notice or not.... I have never asked and they never say anything. But, maybe they are being polite. As far as fidgeting goes, I get called out for that constantly and have tried to be aware of stopping myself if I am sitting at a table or group of attached chairs that will vibrate... if someone else is going to be able to feel it, bc it really annoys people. But it is so unconscious, I often don't realize I am doing it till someone stares at me or tells me something. So I try to sit away from others as much as possible. I don't get too upset with myself for it though. I guess it is because I have been this way for 50 years, so I am used to myself and..."it is what it is."
 
My fancy ND guy has the most beautiful eyes, and sadly dislikes eye contacts. When he smiles, his eyes, and smile lights up his entire face with so much joy, but l try to respect his preference. II have good days and bad days with eye contact. A good technique l developed early on is look at the spot between the two eyes or slightly above, people can't truly tell if you are looking at them or not.
 
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I tend to oscillate back and forth between people's mouths and eyes when I'm talking with them, but I barely look as people at all, or perhaps not at all when I talk.

I remember when I was at school I had a drama teacher who was also sometimes my English teacher. I remember being absolutely baffled by eye contact. I had experienced enough adults flying into an apoplectic rage because I didn't look at them when they were shouting at me for some rubbish. Then I started to try and maintain eye contact with every ounce of will I had and was then getting the same rage for apparently trying to be defiant.

My drama teacher, I suspect, had noticed my awkwardness and perhaps my other traits. One day she did an exercise in our drama class where she told us we were going to think about the experience of eye contact when talking. A few of us were selected to do this activity with her. I was once of them. I do recall feeling a bit like she was observing me at the time. But I learned something I hadn't understood before, and these things were discussed during the class after the activity.

I was really glad we did that because I learned more about how eye contact works. It basically boils down to, if someone is talking, you look at them for a moment then look away, rinse and repeat. This gives confirmation and comfort that you are listening, but maintaining eye contact for a slither too long and people feel like you are trying to make them uncomfortable. Maybe 40-50% eye contact here.

When you are talking, you show more eye contact with the occasional glance away. Maybe 70% eye contact here.

I felt so grateful to her for doing that! I felt like I had unlocked the secrets of the universe! It felt like a gift. I managed to build my skills with it over time. But it can rapidly vanish when I'm feeling really depressed. It's perhaps second nature for me but not really a natural habit.

I also have a suspicion she may have tried to either suggest I was on the spectrum to my mother on a parent's evening. I used to think it may have been dyslexia, but the thing that has made me second guess that was that the words I was told she used was "I feel Mildred is very intelligent, but they struggle to express themselves..." This apparently caused my mother to fly into a rage and start saying that she was going to "sort me out for my bad behaviour when she got home." And she certainly did that.

I remember I was subjected to a lot of angry insults and abuse that went on for hours when she got back.

The next day my teacher came to find me and said she was very worried about me and was sorry if she had caused my mother to be angry at me when she got home. She said she wanted to talk to me about something and offered me a lift home that evening.

I remember she said in the car that she felt she had noticed something about me, but she said she couldn't come out and say it to me but she had tried to talk to my mother about it and she had been very concerned about the rage she had displayed.

She asked me lots of questions, some I certainly realise now would be relevant to ASD, I remember enthusiastically talking to her about how I liked finding patterns in things and figuring out how things work. But that was pretty much the last time I spoke to anyone about it until I found this forum.

I think she realised something bad was happening at home too.

This is also around the time my mother kept on criticising me and telling me that if I played video games I'd become autistic.

She had said things like this before, she would get a bee in her bonnet about something I was doing and then she would start doing it again.

I suspect, it may not have been the only time someone had suggested this too her.

Anyways, I'm still very grateful to Ms W to helping me figure out eye contact. It made things so much better for me :)
 
I was really glad we did that because I learned more about how eye contact works. It basically boils down to, if someone is talking, you look at them for a moment then look away, rinse and repeat. This gives confirmation and comfort that you are listening, but maintaining eye contact for a slither too long and people feel like you are trying to make them uncomfortable. Maybe 40-50% eye contact here.
I'm not sure how or why, but I feel like I also learnt it in late elementary school. I can even remember that correct eye contact lasts up to 3 seconds. It must have been a problem that my parents or teachers noticed, I'm not sure. I was for sure labelled as "shy". I remember that also someone "sold" me the trick that you should look at people's forheads during presentations and theatre performances. I liked it so much that I probably started to do so a lot of the time, I found ways to "cheat" about eye contact, I don't think I look people straight into the eyes very often, most often it's somewhere on their face. But I was convinced most people do that? Don't they? I had just one friend find it out so far and point it out as very weird that I look at her eyebrows and nose or at her ear.

"sort me out for my bad behaviour when she got home." And she certainly did that.
I'm sorry to hear that. I mean, I heard similar things at school, but... I don't think anyone ever thought it has to autism per se? I was good at math and science, and at art classes too and my worst subjects were literature, especially essay writing and I got anxious and/or overwhelmed during oral presentations. So "is smart but struggles to express themself" certainly applied to me. But I luckily didn't have it perceived as misbehaviour, rather as having more of a "science brain" and my family tried to help.
 
I think I have posted about this before, but I can sometimes just not make enough eye contact, and then sometimes I feel like I am staring a hole through a person's eyes and can't blink enough or get out of the daze. I definitely wish I had better awareness of this because I probably have creeped out some folk or made them think I was arrogant at different times. Oops.
 
Try looking at the hairline of the person you are talking too. That is easy and seems to work. @vergil96[/
[/QUOTE]
I'll give it a try.

Hair isn't the worst. Tbh I'm already looking usually not into the eyes of another person, but somewhere else on their face. And I find lots of areas on the face baffling and distracting as well. Another issue is that I'm burnt out and I can't do all the things that I normally can. I mean, I could but it would mean being e.g. extremely distracted and/or overwhelmed.
 
So someone I met on Monday asked me if I don't like him because I was tired after the test I had and my laptop crashed, and I didn't make eye contact with him. I consider it strage that the guy is on the spectrum himself and didn't pick up on it that if I look outside through the window while talking to him, it might have nothing to do with him and that poor eye contact means that someone probably is autistic. But he's much more visible than I am, autism doesn't affect the way I move or my facial expression (other than probably reacting to what I experience which might not be the same as what other people experience), for him it does, he also has way less social intuition than I do. He is a very keen observer of people's bahaviour, though, he seems to enjoy it a lot and has some interesting insights. To be honest with you, I would have burnt out quicker and wouldn't finish this conversation and it wouldn't have been as interesting if I had to not look into the background. I would be left exhausted. But he isn't the first person to accuse me of not liking them, because of not making eye contact and/or fidgeting. I got paranoid at this point. I guess it has to just pass. I'm just venting. And I'm feeling paranoid and self-conscous. I fried my brain to a crisp by making too much eye contact with my therapist, who probably would be the last person to think I don't like him, because I looked at a piece of furniture for the whole time. It made me feel nauseaous, I hate that.

I just didn't feel like explaining myself to the guy from university, and I wasn't doing anything consciously, I just did what I felt like doing, I don't exactly know why.
Part of the autism experience is the phenomenon of "mind-blindness", or a general lack of understanding another's perspective, especially within "the moment". The context here is "within the moment", because, as you are pointing out in your post, you are examining and describing his perspective. So, within the context of say, a written post here, or pausing for a period of time, an adult autistic may have this ability for perspective taking.

I have posted on here before that I have been with my wife for the better part of 38 years, yet, I will never "know her" because despite my experience with her, what she is thinking or how she will respond to anything is a complete mystery to me. I have to ask or she has to tell me.
 
Part of the autism experience is the phenomenon of "mind-blindness", or a general lack of understanding another's perspective, especially within "the moment". The context here is "within the moment", because, as you are pointing out in your post, you are examining and describing his perspective. So, within the context of say, a written post here, or pausing for a period of time, an adult autistic may have this ability for perspective taking.

I have posted on here before that I have been with my wife for the better part of 38 years, yet, I will never "know her" because despite my experience with her, what she is thinking or how she will respond to anything is a complete mystery to me. I have to ask or she has to tell me.
I had to think about what you said, but I think I understand what you mean. He must have felt disoriented, because he doesn't have the same experience and behaviours. And might have not met someone like me before either, so might have not updated his database in that regard so to speak.
 

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