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So, the whole "empath" thing

Misery

Amalga Heart
V.I.P Member
Yeah this one has been on my mind recently for no bloody reason.

If you dont know what an empath is, it refers to someone with the ability to feel/experience/inherit the emotions/feelings/sensations/whatever of others nearby as if it were their own. For some, this effect is extended, with the ability to sense lingering emotional whatsits that is just hanging around some area... even if that area has been devoid of people for a little while. Often, someone like this can become overwhelmed very, very easily; for most, it seems that the effect cannot be turned off. It just always works.

This can allow one to do certain things. For instance, it can obviously make it easier to help others with their problems. But also, it often means that those others cannot hide things from the person who is able to do this. They may also find themselves simply able to know some traits/details about someone, by doing... something.

Chances are, I dont have to explain too much further... I've found that everyone on this forum tends to be pretty knowledgeable about a great many topics. So you probably know what I mean.

But the big question is... what IS it? How does it work?

When hearing people discuss this subject, the ideas and concepts they will bring up can vary wildly. There will often be debates about how/why it works and what the nature of it even is.

But it's not just that. Hear about the subject enough, and soon you'll find those who outright dont believe it is a thing at all. Just a silly myth to them, a bunch of nonsense. Interestingly, whenever I see this, the person saying that will often say "anyone who calls themselves an empath is a narcissist" which I may or may not have spelled wrong. Sometimes they'll call the person a snowflake instead. Now, this to me seems bloody stupid. Regardless of what you may think the nature of the ability is, or how it works, it is still simply that: an ability. No different, in my mind, from being able to, say, play the piano well, or cook amazing meals. But what do I know, right?

So... that's some of that. I'm rather curious as to what you all might have to say about this.
 
Concept Definition and Dimensions
Empathy is the ability to understand and share other people’s feelings [10]. It is a core concept as, according to the psychodynamic, behavioral and person-centered approaches, it facilitates the development of a therapeutic relationship with the health care user, providing the basis for therapeutic change [11].

Empathy was first mentioned in a psychotherapeutic context in the 1950s [7]. The person-centered approach defined it as the temporary condition that a health professional experiences in his/her effort to understand a health care user’s life without bonding with them [3,12].

The contemporary concept of empathy is multidimensional and consists of affective, cognitive, and behavioral aspects [6,11,13]. Throughout history, the development and integration of this concept evolved along three different time periods. Until the end of the 1950s, the cognitive dimension was mostly prevalent. From 1960 onwards, emphasis was given to the affective dimension, whereas since 1970, empathy has been defined in all its multi-dimensionality; that is, the behavioral aspect has been added to the everyday practice of the health care professionals [14].

The affective dimension consists of the concepts of caring and that of the sincere, unconditional acceptance of the health care user (congruence) [8,15,16]. Caring refers to the assistance and support as byproducts of an emotional interaction. The concept of the full and sincere unconditional acceptance refers to the approval of the ‘other’ and a consensus between people, without preconceptions or stereotypes.

The cognitive dimension pertains to the interpersonal sensitivity and the ability to understand the position the other person is in (perspective taking) [17,18]. Interpersonal sensitivity means objectively understanding the other person’s situation. It is a deep process of getting to know someone, based in both verbal and non-verbal cues. The ability to understand the other person’s situation refers to the flexibility and the objective understanding of the point of view of the other person (walk in their shoes, comprehending the way they perform cognitively, emotionally, and mentally) [17,18].

Altruism and the therapeutic relationship both belong to the behavioral dimension which develops empathy into practice [19,20]. Altruism is a socially directed behavior aimed at relieving difficulties, problems, and the pain associated with them [11].

Sympathy, empathy, and compassion are closely related terms that are often used interchangeably. Sympathy has been defined as an emotional reaction of pity toward the misfortune of another, especially those who are perceived as suffering unfairly [21]. Empathy is understood as a more complex interpersonal construct that involves awareness and intuition, while compassion is a ‘complementary social emotion, elicited by witnessing the suffering of others’ and is related with the feelings of concern, warmth associated to motivating of support [22]. Empathetic listening might result in compassion fatigue because of prolonged exposure to stress and all it evokes [23]. Self-care practice, well-being, and self-awareness are fundamental in enhancing empathy and reducing compassion fatigue [23,24].
The Role of Empathy in Health and Social Care Professionals
 
I think some people who attack others for being empaths are just insecure in their inability to be empathetic at a larger scale outside their bubbles. People are always attacking others for what they don't have or struggle to achieve.

Can't speak for everyone but being an empath sucks, esp as an Aspie. It's draining. It forces you to be fair and non-judgmental to everyone. Even if you don't like them. It's trying to keep an open mind 24/7. It's a buzzing in your head and body any time things get heated. For me it's not just feeling others emotions, but logically realizing how they got to that point, going back into their timelines and seeing the tipping points. Putting yourself there and thinking man how I deal with it if it were me? It's getting angry and bitter at everyone else who can't do the same when it's overall logical.

The thing is, it's actually not easier to help others as one would guess. Because you also have to think of all parties involved if there are any. I think that's where I get stuck. Because people want simple easy solutions and sometimes there isn't any.

And that's me rambling again.. shutting up
 
I remember feeling strong feelings as a child, but not sure how often, I was 'Empathic.

As far as emotions go:
I've felt love,
Fear
Anxiety,
Guilt
Anger
Compassion
Disgust
Empathy? in a family setting, yes.
But outside that bubble, with strangers , I'm not so sure it's that pronounced.
As a self defense mechanism,I generally don't connect well with strangers.
But if you get past my guard I have all the sympathy, compassion and friendliness, for you, my system can energetically muster.

I can be 'moody.' That's where I can shut down. Go neutral, or if angry, that naturally destroys compassion. Two states cannot exit a same time. Impossible.

Naturally,empathy, I associate more with love.
Like if a family member is injured, you empathize, because you have love for them.
If a pet is in distress, you empathize, because you have love for them.
Same with somebody you really care about , non-relation, could be a friend, is in distress, or hurt, you empathize, cause you have 'love for them.
Could even be a fictional character. Media can drag you in to the drama, and trigger your emotions.
Love , seems to be just a more bonded form of empathy.. Because you feel 'love for something outside yourself; you don't feel they are separate, you treat them, like they were a part of you, therefore logically you would help them , like you would help yourself.

With family this is all genetic. Altruism, a selfless act, in form of saving somebody from drowning, where you yourself could die, or going into a burning building, etc, is in the genes. There's evolutionary reasons for Altruism. Group biases. DNA Survival.

I've said my piece. Those are my thoughts on Empathy. It's just not something I demonstrate indiscriminately, 24/7. As the person , said above me, that would be ...exhausting. Now others can ramble on.
 
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I'd argue it's not an ability because it's not something you practice and improve at. My guess has been that it's a trait, that it's simply a heightened emotional awareness.
 
An empath and empathy are two different things.

From Oxford languages:
noun
noun: empath; plural noun: empaths
  1. (chiefly in science fiction) a person with the paranormal ability to apprehend the mental or emotional state of another individual.
    Science fiction use is why most don't even believe in empaths. Example:

    Deanna Troi is a main character in the science-fiction television series Star Trek: The Next Generation and related TV series and films, portrayed by actress Marina Sirtis. Troi is half-human, half-Betazoid and has the psionic ability to sense emotions.

    An Empath senses the emotions of others, but, doesn't necessarily feel affected by them.

    The three types of empathy are Emotional- When seeing others/and animals hurt,
    you feel a sense of distress inside over it. For example, you might cry or throw up
    over seeing people that are in pain or suffering.

    Compassionate- Second step of empathy. You not only feel concern or distress you want
    to help if you can. Like the altruism. You react to help, even if it may hurt you physically.

    Cognitive- Is more of a mental act. You see someone hurt emotionally or physically
    and you understand what type of sensations they feel, but, it may not necessarily
    create the feeling of wanting to help them or an emotional/physical reaction inside you.

    Neuroscience believes the three types of empathy are created from neural pathways
    in the brain.
    And mirror neurons.
 
I would have to do some further study on this phenomenon, but perhaps another contributory theory. You mentioned you can sense something even after people have left the room. One thing comes to mind,...the subconscious ability to smell pheromones and other odors elicited during highly emotional periods or states of health. Animals,...even the common canine can smell emotional states such as fear, aggression, pain, stress,...whether a female is in heat,...cancer,...a long list of things. In part, it's one of the reasons why the typical family dog may be quite receptive,...or not, to their human family members.

A common phenomenon amongst myself and my co-workers,...the beginning of your shift,...you walk onto the hospital unit,....before you even see anyone,...and you can sense whether the previous shift had a nice, quiet day,...or it was a total "dumpster fire". I think those stress odors are being sensed, but not obvious enough to say to oneself, "It smells like,...whatever." You just sense it, but really can't describe it.

I also think there is some level of psychic phenomenon that some people can tap into. My mother could sense emotional and painful states in her children,...I mean,...she could be 2 hours away,...across the state,...and she would call and ask if anything was wrong. She could feel the pain from my brother's cancer,...literally could pin-point it,...really creepy. I would pick up the phone and she would be there on the other end,...I didn't call her,...and the phone didn't ring,...stuff like that. I have had a long list of what one could call psychic or paranormal phenomenon in my life, as well. I am sure there is a logical explanation,...just don't know enough about it to understand it.
 
When l was younger, l use to be worn out by reading others intentions, now l don't go there anymore. Or if l do , I try to shrug it off becomes it became very tiresome. Whether it's a gift or more of a curse is debatable.
 
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Just something out of left field. When someone cuts themselves with a knife, it's as if I can feel the sensation on my body and I recoil. Ditto if I have to watch stuff about the French Revolution - blades and cutting, ergh (but I have no problems assisting with surgery etc; that's different, it's making things better and the patient is under, not suffering). Also I'm sensitive to general screen violence (except in horror spoofs like Pride & Prejudice & Zombies etc) - even though I know it's just acting; feel physically sick, repelled etc.

I thought for a while that this was linked to having PTSD, but then I heard the same thing described somewhere that this is a kind of thing to do with synaesthesia and empathy. I forgot the exact term for it and may dig it up sometime. Anyway, this may be a related brain thing. Anyone here experienced anything like this?
 
I'd argue it's not an ability because it's not something you practice and improve at. My guess has been that it's a trait, that it's simply a heightened emotional awareness.

They've tried empathy training some of our horrible Parliamentarians in Australia (seriously) after the recent bullying and sexual abuse scandals there (in the workplace) and the ensuing official reports, but it doesn't seem to have made any difference, except cost the taxpayers money. :nomouth:

But I do think that some people at least can learn to be more empathetic. Maybe by paying more attention, maybe by reading novels that describe people's internal workings, maybe by more experience in this world, etc.

I'm wondering, doesn't everyone here feel better at empathy than when you were a decade younger?
 
I think some people who attack others for being empaths are just insecure in their inability to be empathetic at a larger scale outside their bubbles. People are always attacking others for what they don't have or struggle to achieve.

Aye. I've always hated this.

The sad part about this one is that it can relate to basically ANYTHING. Is it some form of jealousy? Like, someone cant stand that they themselves cannot master the guitar, yet Bob over there seems to have done it so easily (which is usually untrue, that stuff takes LOTS of practice!)

As a longtime gamer this is something I've seen about 5 billionty times within that hobby... and that's just video games! As much as I love gaming, that's all they are. But people WILL attack each other over that other being of a higher skill level than them.

Just....... aaaaaaaaaagh. That type of behavior drives me crazy.

I also think there is some level of psychic phenomenon that some people can tap into. My mother could sense emotional and painful states in her children,...I mean,...she could be 2 hours away,...across the state,...and she would call and ask if anything was wrong. She could feel the pain from my brother's cancer,...literally could pin-point it,...really creepy. I would pick up the phone and she would be there on the other end,...I didn't call her,...and the phone didn't ring,...stuff like that. I have had a long list of what one could call psychic or paranormal phenomenon in my life, as well. I am sure there is a logical explanation,...just don't know enough about it to understand it.

This has sorta been my thoughts on it for a long while.

Of course, the problem is that this is very hard to explain and doesnt quite make a whole lot of sense (though my knowledge level is very low on that sort of thing still). It's easy to see why some wont believe it.

When l was younger, l use to be worn out by reading others intentions, now l don't go there anymore. Or if l do , I try to shrug it off becomes it became very tiresome. Whether it's a gift or more of a curse is debatable.

Yeah, I hear this bit a lot whenever the subject comes up. It IS very, very draining. Like sure, it's useful... it's good to know when someone needs help, so you can do something. But chances are that your batteries are gonna be running low before you even do anything. Perhaps it's a gift AND a curse at the same time, in a way.

Just something out of left field. When someone cuts themselves with a knife, it's as if I can feel the sensation on my body and I recoil. Ditto if I have to watch stuff about the French Revolution - blades and cutting, ergh (but I have no problems assisting with surgery etc; that's different, it's making things better and the patient is under, not suffering). Also I'm sensitive to general screen violence (except in horror spoofs like Pride & Prejudice & Zombies etc) - even though I know it's just acting; feel physically sick, repelled etc.

I thought for a while that this was linked to having PTSD, but then I heard the same thing described somewhere that this is a kind of thing to do with synaesthesia and empathy. I forgot the exact term for it and may dig it up sometime. Anyway, this may be a related brain thing. Anyone here experienced anything like this?

I get this sometimes. Not always. It's not exactly often that I'm in a situation where someone gets hurt around/near me though, and I'm generally unaffected by it when it's on TV... in my case that bit isnt really so much a matter of "well I dont get it from that because I know it isnt real", but moreso because acting is one of those skills that I tend to be super impressed by, and when I see someone doing it on TV or Youtube or wherever, if they can REALLY pull off the "in pain" state, it strikes me as simply being very impressive that they're doing it so well, so that prevents that from really bothering me too much.

Though there are some things I cant watch because they go overboard. Too much gore for instance. Like, even I have limits.

But if someone gets hurt nearby IRL? Yeah, that gets to me a bit. Dont like that. Not a fun feeling, to put it mildly.

I'd argue it's not an ability because it's not something you practice and improve at. My guess has been that it's a trait, that it's simply a heightened emotional awareness.


Just to be 100% clear: I tend to use terms like ability/trait/skill sort of interchangeably. No, I dont know why. Just wanted to mention that in case anything I said sounded off because of it.

Though, this goes into ANOTHER topic that I've found interesting, which is the concept of what some might call natural talent. Which of course can apply to basically everything. Like, learning a skill/whatever through practice is great and all, but... what about those who seem to just START at a higher level? The sort of thing that gets someone else to say things like "wow, you're a natural at this". Yet, within that same skill, others struggle to even get off the ground and their progress may be unusually slow even with continuous practice. Why do either of those things happen? It always seems to me like *everyone* will have certain things that they will have that natural talent for, with that being balanced out by there being other things they'll endlessly have trouble with. Of course, the difficult part is discovering what those things are.

All of that though, might be better discussed as an entirely separate topic. Could make for an interesting discussion.


As for this topic... it sure is fascinating to see all the varying responses here.
 
it's as if I can feel the sensation on my body and I recoil.
Me too. Watching someone cry gives me the urge to also cry. The same for positive emotions. In a psych class in college, I learned that watching someone in pain lights up the areas in your own brain for pain, so it feels like you are going through that yourself. The participants in this study were probably all NTs.

I don't know how common this is for the autistic community. I never thought that this was strange since people I know in real life all exhibit some level of this, even if they are not as sensitive as I. If this is uncommon for autistics, it could be the reason that the myth "autistics don't have empathy" is flying around.
 
One phenomenon among some autistics is the double empathy paradox, we feel our emotions and those of others as if they were our own. Laymans terms: We feel too much, for too many.

The theory is that some autistics have inherent mood radar that serves as an advanced warning system, cue the autonomic nervous system to trigger the sympathetic or the parasympathetic system depending on incoming mirco clues. A hardwired upgraded system do to neural pruning patterns unique to autistic brains.

Negative emotions or perceived threats trigger the sympathetic response (fight or flight). Positive or neutral input triggers the parasympathetic response (e.g. enjoyment, anticipation, or empathy).
 
One phenomenon among some autistics is the double empathy paradox, we feel our emotions and those of others as if they were our own. Laymans terms: We feel too much, for too many.

The theory is that some autistics have inherent mood radar that serves as an advanced warning system, cue the autonomic nervous system to trigger the sympathetic or the parasympathetic system depending on incoming mirco clues. A hardwired upgraded system do to neural pruning patterns unique to autistic brains.

Negative emotions or perceived threats trigger the sympathetic response (fight or flight). Positive or neutral input triggers the parasympathetic response (e.g. enjoyment, anticipation, or empathy).

Oh. That was very interesting post.

Yes, gore movies can be over the top. I have to turn away if it's a ridiculous amount inserted.

What is nice is that peeps are discussing this in a neutral unbiased frame so l feel safe in this post. Lol. People don't like it when you read them. Rightfully so. So l am of the opinion it's more like a parlor trick and l use to do it to stay sharp. Like l would guess random people's ages to entertain my spouse. Now l don't. Mess with people. Everybody has this ability, some have it maybe more. But we are programmed to believe it's bad voodoo. But intuition is a great gift and we should embrace ourselves.
 
To me, emphathy has 4 diferents parts:

  • To be able to read the emotion that the other person has. This is body language and can be learn. There is proffesional training in microexpressions to even dettect visually people who lie and mask their expressions (this does not include temperature, pheromones and other means). Soon this will be do by IAs much better than humans. The most known scientist in this field is Paul Ekman: Micro Expressions
  • Feeling that emotion. Once your brain has identify the other person emotion, you may feel it or not. Here is where the famous mirror neurones should be working. Well, this part is very disabled for antisocial people. I am not sure if feeling what the other people is feeling can be trained. Antisocials do skip this step and are able to offer an apropiate response to other people feelings when that benefits them.
  • To be aware of the emotion your body may be feeling (or not). In my case, my wife identify my emotions way faster than me. I need to become aware of my feelings indirectly. I am becoming better at this with self awarenes, so I guess it can be trained too.
  • Finally, to properly act to support that person. And that means 99% of times to know what is socially correct to do. And here is when we (autists) have problems. The proper way to confort a sad child depends on your relation with the child, the age of the child, the place, the sex of the child, how you look, the social status of the child and yourself, the culture, the colour of the skin.... etc, etc, etc... NTs seem to know how to act with people close to their cultural groups instinctively. Antisocials learn to do it without much problems despite not feeling those emotions themselves. We seem to be the ones having more difficulties on this, but since we become more functional with age I guess it can be trained too.
Time to sleep. :)
 

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