Social and Physical Boundaries - Help?

[Lysander]

"Find my personal bubble - but don't pop it!"

"Your boundaries aren't the same as mine? Ok, strike #1."

"Alright, timing is key. Get this perfect! Hurry, but don't blunder! Time's up in 3. . . 2. . ."



Mastering social boundaries is the magic of finding, but not touching, individual bubbles you cannot see.

I have a hard time figuring out what kind of approach is acceptable and wanted. Fortunately, I have a really tight social boundary - so I have the lesser of two evils to deal with every day. This is still hard!

Knowing when to, and not to, intimate a comment or a contact is a really great tool in cultivating relationships. So, I really appreciate advice on this! I bet others do too!

Some wisdom to start us off: Communicating one's neurological asymmetries once people have gained our trust can really help to curb any suspicion of malicious intent behind seemingly odd words or actions.

 

[StephF]

I think you just explained it so clearly and succinctly.
NT's seems to understand where the bubble boundaries are whereas it may not be so clear cut for us.

I wish communicating with people could be as simple as it is with computers.
I offer you a SYN and if you want to talk to me you'll reply with a SYN/ACK whereas if you want me to shut up and go away then send me a RST.

At least that way there would be no mistake and we'll both know when the conversation is finished.

If only NT's could speak TCP then life would be so much simpler.

 

[Lysander]

Quantification of neurotypical social registry initializing. Species updated.

That would be SO COOL.

 

[May Black]

I'd love to help you, but I'm actually quite lost, even after having my boyfriend translate your posts to me. I feel very NT right now, which doesn't happen all too often to me.

If there is anything from the NT world that you're curious about regarding personal space, I'll try to answer it as good as I can, assuming I understand the question.

 

[StephF]

NT's seem to have a personal space and if people stand too close they feel invaded. I know that the optimum distance seems to vary according to country and culture. Some like to be closer and some like you to be further away. This can be very confusing to Aspie's as we don't always fully understand these unspoken rules.

 

[May Black]

Thank you.

It varies from person to person really and it's hard even for NTs to grasp. We don't generally notice them until they're crossed, which is extremely uncomfortable at least to me. You're absolutely right that the difference between countries and cultures can be quite big. Leaving too large personal space is probably a better thing than being too close to a person if you're not certain. A good indication that you're standing too close is if you notice the other person taking a step back or leaning backwards. I think keeping maybe a foot's distance is a good thumb rule.

I didn't know Aspies didn't have the same concept of personal space. I would not approach an autistic person without them actually giving any indication that it was ok. When I was teaching, I had a pupil that I couldn't approach at all for a couple of weeks, and I communicated with him from a few yards distance. Every time I got too close he started flapping with his arms. I'd love to find out more about this if anyone feels like elaborating.

 

[Lysander]

I cannot explain the perspectives of all people with autism, but this should help a bit: the feeling you get when someone's in your personal space is sometimes stronger for people with autism. It's the same thing, just magnified because it's overwhelming when you're helpless, more or less, to appropriately react. For me, it's not so intense, because I know what to do and say - although it does cause a little anxiety because I know that it's a sensitive topic for others too, and I don't want to upset others with bad timing, or not realizing my tone sounded worse than I intended.

People sometimes call autism "intense world syndrome". I am at one extreme end of the range of autism one can have, and am looking for ways to "see" someone else's boundaries, especially as they change, although it's not something I'm distressed about all the time - I am glad that this isn't something that the community of autistic folks is singular in addressing this way. Empathy wins ♥

 

[May Black]

Thank you. I've been close to having panic attacks on a bus when I get a large person next to me touching me, so I think I can quite easily relate to a strong feeling of discomfort when your personal space is crossed. It's hard to comprehend this could be felt from across half the room, but fully acceptable.

I'm not entirely sure how to read personal space. I can't even read my own personal space unless it's violated, especially since it changes depending on the other person, my mood, probably other tings too. I'd say it's a very selfish sensation. I will approach a person as close as is comfortable to me, then if they back away, I don't follow. If they move closer I generally try to endure, if I can't, I back a little.

 

[Zidiane]

A couple of things I've noticed that help not cross NT physical boundaries. I hope they are helpful, and that I've phrased them correctly.

Try not to stand closer than elbows length. That should be the hard barrier you keep. Exceptions are during greeting hugs/cheek kisses (these depend on the NT, but I would avoid initiating the hug or cheek kiss), intimate acts done with partners, and when you are in any confined space where there's not enough room (like a car, or elevator).

Even when keeping the appropriate distance, try to maintain a balance of facing them and not facing them. During a conversation it is acceptable and expected that your body face them, but I believe it helps to alternate between having your body and your face facing them, having your body facing them while looking away (do this briefly or they'll think you aren't paying attention), having your body facing away and your face facing them (this one is good for the "I'm relaxing while we talk"), and occasionally facing away completely (this one goes good with a "thinking" face, and can give off the impression that you are thinking deeply about what is being said or has been said). Try not to switch between positions too often, you need to find a good rhythm.

While you are not engaged in conversation, I believe it's best to attempt to angle your body parallel to theirs and facing the direction they are while beside them (with the exception being when you are behind them, under that circumstance try not to stare at them, and find a good time to get beside them again). That helps making sure they don't feel like they are getting unwanted attention by you just outside of their boundary while facing them as if in a conversation when there is no conversation.

All in all, I've tried to get by wherever I'm unsure by mimicking the general body position of the person I'm around. Not exactly, cause they notice that and get freaked, but if they tend to come up to you and maintain X distance, try and keep that distance at least from them. I also try and mimick vocal tones, as it helps me make sure I'm talking to them in an acceptable tone (though that particular trick goes badly when someone is being a jerk, then they get mad because my tone is matching theirs and they don't like it).

 

[AsheSkyler]

My experience with people is quite the opposite. They have no respect for personal space! I want a minimum of three feet from everybody, including people I like (unless I'm feeling snuggly toward my husband, but I know when to leave him alone and he knows when to leave me alone), and even three feet is too close on most days. I keep hugs quick and I try avoid them if I can, and I'll just stare at you if you want to shake hands. Why are people so grabby? Can't they just sit in their bubbles and be happy or go find somebody else to cling to like begger lice and cockleburrs? Do they even HAVE bubbles? And why they must be so confrontational they have to be directly across from you and staring you down when they want to talk? Can't they just quietly sit off to the side if they want a conversation or are they intentionally trying to pick a fight or be dominating? And if autistic people are supposed to be so clueless reading body language and the allistic are the masters of nonverbal communication, why don't they ever take a hint and back off when I keep scooting away and glaring at them? I've nearly bit the heads off of many people waiting in line at the grocery store because they leave barely six inches between their cart and my heels, and they do not want to see how I'll react if I get run over by their impatience. I think most people could use a crash course in body language and manners in general, starting with this. If you need me, I shall be in my hamster ball!

*edit*
I'd like to clarify my frustrations are not directed at any body here. Just at random people I knew in the past.