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Social Rules

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BruceCM_Aspergic

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According to my best 'friend', who is also an Aspie, there are 'social rules' that we do have to accept & do but it's impossible to find out what they are! Since he doesn't seem to have heard most of the ones I'm on about, really and there's no way to do most of the ones I'm told. Can anybody, please, help? I've asked & asked about these things & can't get any answers anywhere
 
According to my best 'friend', who is also an Aspie, there are 'social rules' that we do have to accept & do but it's impossible to find out what they are! Since he doesn't seem to have heard most of the ones I'm on about, really and there's no way to do most of the ones I'm told. Can anybody, please, help? I've asked & asked about these things & can't get any answers anywhere


Can you help me to better understand the social rules you already know, and what you're looking to learn? This is something that I've struggled with and I feel have learned pretty successfully, although I'm still struggling to integrate some into different settings (there are different rules in the personal, professional, academic, and peer group settings). Where do you struggle most? What do you already know, understand, and use?
 
I don't exactly know any social rules. There's plenty of claims about them (usually not clearly saying they're social rules but they sure seem to be. Mainly, it's just general socializing (with peers, I think you'd call them). For instance, there's the 'accept yourself as you are' or 'just be yourself'; firstly, the way you'd be told that effectively contradicts itself & secondly if you did that you'd not have to do all the others. Then, there's 'accept others as they are' but nobody does that & it's demonstrably impossible to actually do that. Or 'treat people with respect', which conveniently keeps meaning almost opposite things one way to the other & has become impossible to discuss any further. Point being it's absolutely impossible to accept ALL that's said about them & there's no other social rules than what somebody has said or written about them.
 
So, all those things are pretty abstract and relatively debatable. I don't really have an operational definition for any of the concepts you listed. Let's start with some basic social skills that are easy to define and follow through with, and more abstract things will follow. The things you listed fall more under the category of "self esteem", "maintaining relationships" and "relating to others", and these two processes, I think, follow once you have mastered those more concrete, basic social skills.

Again, since I don't really know what you are currently doing in real life as far as social skills, so I'll list a few things that can be good starting points:

Introducing yourself
Joining an activity (requesting)
Inviting others to participate in an activity
Reading body language
Listening skills (it's more complicated than you think)
Maintaining a conversation

Are those all pretty easy for you? Is there any one that you struggle with more than the others? Maybe, could you tell me what you currently do for each of them, and we can figure out where to go from there?
 
Excuse me? How old do you think I am? 5? Abstract & debateable? Which bit of 'that's disrespectful/ rude/ arrogant/ etc' is debateable? Of course, that's what I'm told when I ask but nobody's telling anybody I'd socialize with that! For the local AS support group, 'respect & consideration' are in the rules, too; so the group obviously doesn't think they're so abstract or debateable. Naturally, there's no definition of either term that actually relates to anything practical but anybody can have a go at me about it while I would not be supposed to do that to them.
Reading body language is supposed to be a difficulty for people with AS & I don't know how 'good' I am at that but there's nowhere to learn it since the official approach is to 'just accept' we can't do that (or not well). Then, there's nobody who demonstrates listening skills that work to teach those & again the official approach means there's nowhere to go to learn them, anyway. I'm not sure what you mean about 'maintaining a conversation'; some things are easier to discuss than others but perhaps you'd explain a bit about that, please?
 
If you're going to lash out at me, I see no reason to help you. I understand you're frustrated with the situation but that does not give you the right to verbally assault me.

I said nothing disrespectful in my post, I was only trying to gauge what you wanted help with. You however, were very disrespectful. If you want this conversation to continue, I'll happily answer your questions once asked in a respectful manner without being preceded by a snarky, angry introduction (or followed by a disrespectful conclusion, or contain disrespectful comments within the questions, etc). Apologies are another good social skill, but I don't hold grudges so I don't need and won't demand an apology.
 
I'd already asked what I wanted to ask as clearly as possible. If anybody could see it, this is the same sort of problem. One moment, respect is so vague & abstract, you can't help me with sorting out what anybody's on about with it. But then you can call what I've said disrespectful while insisting what you said wasn't. Not that it was meant as an 'assault' but there we have it, as usual.
 
I realize that what I did was the same thing everyone else has done to you: told you that you've done something wrong without telling you how to do it right. However, I was quite taken aback by your sharp, abrasive response that I 1) had no desire to be helpful to you anymore and 2) felt as though anything I had to say would be taken the wrong way and still be unhelpful. So here goes my best attempt to responding to feedback which you asked for that you feel was somehow disrespectful to you.

Excuse me? How old do you think I am? 5? Abstract & debateable? Which bit of 'that's disrespectful/ rude/ arrogant/ etc' is debateable?

Instead of beginning with a phrase that is often used to mean "WTF", followed by a question which means "You sound like an idiot", then attempting immediately to argue with the point being made, you can begin with something like, "That's one way of looking at it, but I don't agree with it because...." then state reasons. Also, read the other person's response carefully. I said abstract and RELATIVELY debatable. "Being yourself" is much more debatable than "being respectful", but "being respectful" is still abstract, because respect is a complex concept that includes a combination of associated outward behaviors, inner thoughts, perspective taking, and relating to others. The way you responded was disrespectful because you used phrases which came across as abrasive, failed to take your conversational partner's perspective, and did not take into account the way your conversational partner would feel as a result of your statement, or intentionally chose a response that would come across as a verbal assault.

You had said that "respect others" seems to mean to you that others are allowed to have a go at you but you are not allowed to have a go at them. In no way did I intend for you to feel as though I was "having a go" at you in my initial response. If someone says something that angers you, you can respectfully tell them so by saying something like, "When you said X, it sounded like you were talking down to me. I'm smarter than that," or even, "It really pisses me off when people talk tome like that, this is one of the things that I was referring to, so talk to me like I"m an adult".

Choosing these phrases and using them appropriately requires very good metacognitive awareness, so it may seem like by giving you these scripts, I'm talking down to you, but really, I expect you to take them and alter them in ways that hold true for your thinking, which may require some reflection on your part.

I'd already asked what I wanted to ask as clearly as possible.

Yes, you did. My problem was not that your questions were unclear, but the context of the questions was negative enough to make me not want to give you a response, and made me feel like anything I said would be taken in such a way that you would just be upset and continue to lash out at me when I'm trying to help you. If you do want an answer to those questions that you asked, look at this as an opportunity to re-do your response and use more respectful language. Have I given you enough information and support for you to be able to do that successfully?
 
The difficulty arises before getting to any part that might have been helpful. As soon as there's any way for me to tell I'm putting things 'negatively' in the first place.... Let's try to go back a bit. I wasn't the person who started making 'respect' the issue as I still can't really tell whether anybody else is or isn't treating anybody else with respect. Evidently, that would somehow have to be fixed first! It certainly seems that it should be far more negative for those who wanted to start slinging the accusations & names around than for me to be trying to ask. Originally, at least, I tried to ask politely, etc. That didn't appear to work, so perhaps that's when it started getting 'negative'? Apparently, though, this goes beyond Asperger's (as far as I can make out, most Aspies do still think they can tell whether others are treating them with respect or not). Don't know what 'metacognitive' is supposed to mean. It still isn't even 'relatively debateable' when anybody else wants to accuse me, so that still won't really work too well.
 
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