Someone please help?

[Mamma25]

Hi, right firstly I should mention that I am 33yrs old with 2 kids, do not suffer from aspergers or autism, OK so I was in a local store today and I walked in front of a girl (probably aged around 13/14 yrs) I didn?t bump into her, didn?t block her way, didn?t do anything in anyway that could have obstructed her or offended her, I just simply walked past her. She turned round and said to me quite rudely ?just walk in front of me why don?t you? I looked around shocked and frankly quite miffed and said ?oh well I?m sorry but I didn?t see as id done anything to you?:sticky_razz: she walked away and under my breath to myself I said ?bloody rude?, then her mom who must?ve heard me jumped right up in my face saying that her daughter had aspergers :stomp:, well I was taken aback by her attitude and replied that maybe she should have taken me aside and pointed that out to me when her daughter had made her first comments, she said that her daughter didnt like her talking about it, her daughter and what must?ve been her sister started shouting at the top of their voices for me to ?shut my mouth? and ?if i had kids i would understand? they REALLY went on the defensive, I pointed out that I have two children but i may as well been talking to a brick wall :banghead: so I walked away before I lost my temper while they were still shouting rude comments and jibing me. Now I accept that the behavior of the girl with aspergers is completely normal so that does not bother me at all, what does bother me is her mom and sisters attitude, is this normal? I just want to know? Am I completely in the wrong? If I am then I hold my hands up and apologize, I just think that if I was in that position and the tables were turned then I, as the mother would have maybe not jumped down my throat and attacked me and maybe just quietly pointed out why mu daughter had done/said what she did, and I know that everyone is different and I would go out of my way not to offend or upset anyone and I just want a heads up? Anyone? Please?

 

[Christian T]

Welcome Mamma25.

Of course, I can see why you would be taken aback and irritated by their stubbornly aggressive behaviour, but I think, through no real fault of yours, they would have been just as exasperated as you. I'm sure this wasn't a stand-alone incident for them, as it might have been for you. They're most likely sick to death of having to explain this to people during everyday activities, and I think your muttering of "bloody rude" is what really set them off because, having asperger's myself, that sort of behaviour usually comes across to me as passive aggressive and highly insulting.

I don't think you meant it that way - by the sound of it, you were probably just trying to let out your frustration in an appropriately unseen way - but if it is seen, it can really just worsen the effect that you were trying to avoid.

So, that's how I believed they felt. I don't think you have anything to be ashamed of - you weren't to know she had asperger's, she could well have just been an insufferably rude person - but I just wanted to shed some more light on the unintended effect of your reaction.

I hope this was in some way helpful to you.

 

[Arashi222]

Mamma25 you know what its all right. First of all your comment was not rude in my opinion because for all you knew the person was rude and didn't have AS. Now honestly the women in my opinion should have come over and said look I'm sorry my daughter is on the spectrum or whatever and not start shouting at you. That was rude on their part. You know Christian T I have AS too and I am sorry but I have to disagree with you in that I don't see why you would find it insulting in that it happens. Its part of life. I make comments that come off as rude too and have customers complain and I have to have people explain that she has AS she didn't mean for it to come out that way. It is what it is. Mamma25 I wouldn't worry about it too much. It was probably a long day for everyone. It happens.

 

[Loomis]

Mamma25 Thanks for sharing your experience. I can see why you were upset because you did not do anything wrong. If the girl were a NT her statement would have been rude, But when aspies are rude, they are clueless that what they did was considered rude in the NT culture. And because aspies are attacked in various ways by NTs they and their protectors are often hypersensitive. I agree the mom could have handled it better but she has had a decade of trying to protect her daughter from various onslaughts.

 

[Christian T]

You know Christian T I have AS too and I am sorry but I have to disagree with you in that I don't see why you would find it insulting in that it happens. Its part of life. I make comments that come off as rude too and have customers complain and I have to have people explain that she has AS she didn't mean for it to come out that way. It is what it is. Mamma25 I wouldn't worry about it too much. It was probably a long day for everyone. It happens.

I mostly agree with you, except I should say finding it insulting is really just my gut reaction. At least at first, it looks patronising because they don't have the courage to say it to your face, and it feels as if they think you're stupid enough not to notice what they've said if they're stage-whispering at just a few feet away. Even if it wasn't meant that way, if it happens repeatedly it's hard just to shrug it off.

You yourself never see it as insulting? That's interesting. Still, I think both of our asperger's insights are equally valid.

 

[Arashi222]

I mostly agree with you, except I should say finding it insulting is really just my gut reaction. At least at first, it looks patronising because they don't have the courage to say it to your face, and it feels as if they think you're stupid enough not to notice what they've said if they're stage-whispering at just a few feet away. Even if it wasn't meant that way, if it happens repeatedly it's hard just to shrug it off.

You yourself never see it as insulting? That's interesting. Still, I think both of our asperger's insights are equally valid.

People can be patronizing, people can suck and be mean and rude, but at the end of the day no I don't find it insulting because they don't understand. I like you have AS, and yes I don't see it as insulting unless someone is saying to your face you are (insert whatever). But that's not what Mamma25 was talking about. She was saying that the girl was rude and it bugged her, yah its happens because I've done it too. was it right for the mom to get all on her about saying stuff no. She (the mom) could have handled it differently. I'm also legally blind but I don't jump all over people for making comments. Because they don't live the way I do. Shrugs. I am just saying that if we take offense to everything we are gonna be so unhappy. I would rather just get along as best we can and be happy.

 

[Christian T]

Yes, Arashi222, I agree that we shouldn't get angry over every little comment, but those comments do bug me personally. I can't shrug them off as easily as others. There are also things that I don't think others can shrug off as easily as me. I don't really want to labour over this point too much, but you do know that I was saying the "bloody rude" comment is the sort of thing I find insulting, don't you. And, as I said, I was just trying to suggest how the mother and daughter might have been feeling.

Anyway, as you say, let's just get along as best as we can and try to be happy.

 

[Mamma25]

Hi, thank you so much for giving me an insight into your world, I really appreciate it a lot. In my defense I made the comment ?bloody rude? quietly to myself more than anything else (as there was no-one near me and I was on my own apart from the mom of the girl and she was about 6ft away) as at that moment my adrenaline was pumping at what had happened, now I personally think that the mom, knowing what her daughter is like and what she had done/said and maybe has done in the past, could have just possibly shrugged it off, chalked it up to experience and not escalated the situation where she and her daughters were mouthing off at the top of their voices in the store.

Like I said I am a mom of two and my kids are small and play up like most kids (my 2yr old boy more so) so I can also see it clearly from the other perspective that if anyone made a comment about my kids I would be there in a blink to defend them with my life, BUT, if it was a daily occurence and couldn?t be helped then I would not want aggravate the situation any further and walk away/apologise and maybe try and see it from the other persons perspective.

What happens when one day that girl offends someone that doesn?t take it quite as well as me (I walked away from it all shaking:{) and she gets a slap and it could have all been diffused if her mom had said a little more politely what her daughter suffers from instead of going on the deffensive? Some people wouldnt stop and ask for an explanation and especially met with the animosity I was?

I agree my comment caused the mom to be aggravated and if I saw her again I would apologise, on the flip side I think on so many levels the situation that followed could have gone so differently if the moms reaction had been a bit better as it just fueled her daughters.

Thank you again everyone for your opinions and replies, should anything like that happen to me again (god forbid) then I would approach the situation differently with your comments taken on board.

All the best everyone and take care

 

[Mamma25]

Hi, thank you so much for giving me an insight into your world, I really appreciate it a lot. In my defense I made the comment ?bloody rude? quietly to myself more than anything else (as there was no-one near me and I was on my own apart from the mom of the girl and she was about 6ft away) as at that moment my adrenaline was pumping at what had happened, now I personally think that the mom, knowing what her daughter is like and what she had done/said and maybe has done in the past, could have just possibly shrugged it off, chalked it up to experience and not escalated the situation where she and her daughters were mouthing off at the top of their voices in the store.

Like I said I am a mom of two and my kids are small and play up like most kids (my 2yr old boy more so) so I can also see it clearly from the other perspective that if anyone made a comment about my kids I would be there in a blink to defend them with my life, BUT, if it was a daily occurence and couldn?t be helped then I would not want aggravate the situation any further and walk away/apologise and maybe try and see it from the other persons perspective.

What happens when one day that girl offends someone that doesn?t take it quite as well as me (I walked away from it all shaking:{) and she gets a slap and it could have all been diffused if her mom had said a little more politely what her daughter suffers from instead of going on the deffensive? Some people wouldnt stop and ask for an explanation and especially met with the animosity I was?

I agree my comment caused the mom to be aggravated and if I saw her again I would apologise, on the flip side I think on so many levels the situation that followed could have gone so differently if the moms reaction had been a bit better as it just fueled her daughters.

Thank you again everyone for your opinions and replies, should anything like that happen to me again (god forbid) then I would approach the situation differently with your comments taken on board.

All the best everyone and take care

 

[Soup]

If someone slaps, pushes or otherwise assaults this girl, they need to be arrested. In most civilized countries, you can't justifiably hit someone because they made a retort you don't like. It isn't sufficient grounds to claim provocation to violence. As people with a 'difference' (like other minorities) are many times more likely to be on the receiving end of abusive comments & behaviours by those who consider themselves 'normal'. A person who would respond with a slap is someone who's a dangerous hothead.

The Aspie child cannot constantly be 'educated' to accommodate mainstream expectations, norms & prejudices. The same conundrum has been faced by visible minority groups who arrive in new cultures: to what extent must they change themselves & their behaviour to adapt & integrate? When does this become invasive assimilation & accommodation of society's prejudicial expectations. For ex: must a Rastafarian from Jamaica remove his dreadlocks because whites interpret them as messy looking? Must a Sikh remove his turban because Americans associate turbans with terrorism? Aspies, like all other groups belong to a culture & we recognize each other despite racial/ethnic/age/gender differences. We typically lack 'social mask' software so we learn to ape behaviours we often don't understand or feel any attachment to. I learned early on that many NTs find my neutral expression & seeming 'ability' to look right through them disturbing. I'm not trying to bother anyone: I just look like this! I find the strange eye-balling/plastified grinning of NTs (meant to convey friendliness & a harmless intent, I've learnt) very disturbing. We tend to prefer when people address us directly with clarity & logic rather than play 'read my facial contortions & guess the symbolic meanings behind my words that don't necessarily match my facial twistings'. THese expressions vary so much from 1 person to another: some people explode when angry whereas others simmer in silence. When you passed in front of that girl, she had no 'software' to interpret your intent. THis isn't a deficit. She probably has all kinds of software you don't. Her family, however, need to learn to tone down their rhetoric & manage their hypersensitivity. You clearly meant to malice & this was all a misunderstanding that they could've handled in a much better way.

An Aspie can learn to mimic certain NT codes of conduct; even those unwritten ones like standing facing the doors in an elevator, not staring too long at others, glancing occasionally at their eyes when talking to them etc. This mother & her family are likely overly defensive of their 'different' therefore vulnerable child. Their reaction was rude & inappropriate.

 

[Mamma25]

If someone slaps, pushes or otherwise assaults this girl, they need to be arrested. In most civilized countries, you can't justifiably hit someone because they made a retort you don't like. It isn't sufficient grounds to claim provocation to violence. As people with a 'difference' (like other minorities) are many times more likely to be on the receiving end of abusive comments & behaviours by those who consider themselves 'normal'. A person who would respond with a slap is someone who's a dangerous hothead.

Hi Soup, unfortunately we dont live in a very nice area and things like this do happen, attacks etc (just because you look the wrong way at someone). I am not like this and would go a long way to avoid violence in any form.

Also my husband is from a minority and I would like to add that I would never ever expect anyone to change to fit in, I accept and expect to be accepted but the world we live in today is all kinds of wrong and for all the wrong reasons

To what Christian T said; (At least at first, it looks patronising because they don't have the courage to say it to your face, and it feels as if they think you're stupid enough not to notice what they've said if they're stage-whispering at just a few feet away). If the girl had reallybeen offensive and I had something to say then believe me I have the courage to do so, as it was I said the comment to myself as i stated before, with no malice and no intent to take it any further, (just as if you stub your toe and you curse to yourself) just thinking she was being a typical teenager from around here (my area), the girl was far enough away not to hear but unfortunately her mom was closer and went thermonuclear on me.

From what I have gleaned I can understand why the girl reacted the way she did, after all thats why I am here, I want to understand, I want to educate my children about it, I dont want to be another ignorant who lives in a bubble thinking we should all be clones who smile sweetly and get on. You guys look normal and are smart and have no visible disability which I suppose for us ?normal? people can be misleading, so I hope you understand why I misunderstood the girl, but I still stand by what i said that the mom maybe could have handled it better.

All the best and god bless

 

[Soup]

Certainly I do understand! There was no magical way for you to know that she had Asperger's. At the risk f saying something politically incorrect...just because she has it doesn't mean that it was behind her behaviour. Her mother & siblings are obviously rude & confrontational people. She may have simply been acting the way she's learned to at home! People with Asperger's have unique personalities & character traits. This girl might be BOTH a person with Asperger's AND someone who is rude & confrontational! If the family members around her act like that on a regular basis. She might just think that her behaviour is normal & consistent with NT society's standards because kids often live what they learn.

 

[Mamma25]

Thanks Soup, good point well made, I have to log off now as my two are poorly and needing fuss thanks again x

 

[Christian T]

To Christian T, (At least at first, it looks patronising because they don't have the courage to say it to your face, and it feels as if they think you're stupid enough not to notice what they've said if they're stage-whispering at just a few feet away). If the girl had reallybeen offensive and I had something to say then believe me I have the courage to do so, as it was I said the comment to myself as i stated before, with no malice and no intent to take it any further, (just as if you stub your toe and you curse to yourself) just thinking she was being a typical teenager from around here (my area)

Oh, sorry Mamma25, that was imprecise wording on my part. I know your muttering was an innocent involuntary reaction, but for others I think it is done out of cowardice. I definitely don't think you were malicious, so I'm sorry I muddled that bit of the post.

You have an admirably realistic, proactive attitude towards understanding Asperger's which is a very precious thing.

You guys look normal and are smart and have no visible disability which I suppose for us ?normal? people can be misleading

Why thankyou, and thanks for putting normal in quotation marks. You might find it easier to use the technical term "neurotypical".

All the best to you as well, you're a great asset to this site.

 

[Mamma25]

Thanks Soup, good point well made, I have to go now as my two are poorly and in need of some fuss, thanks again for everything
And thanks Christian, I?m far from normal (which I quite like, lol) but I shall use neurotypical from now on take care x

 

[Soup]

@ ChristianT: It was. I thought you'd catch that!

@ Rolo: In 2007 My husband watched 1 too many of those renovations shows & went right off the deep end (<-- developed a veritable obsession!). We gutted this huge house we now live in. Put it this way: it's 2012 & we've just finished a huge floor downstairs & the guys came yesterday to begin work on the balcony off our bedroom (YIKES!!!)

Anyhow, as you can imagine, this is a tedious & money gobbling project that demands tons of precision coordination between contractors, suppliers, construction guys, engineers etc. The worst parts are done now but here's what happened at one point. We went together to a stone mason/tile/granite guy to choose & order the tiles for our foyer, kitchen & main floor salle d'eau. Sounds straightforward enough: choose item, choose colour, supply square footage, order, pay & wait for delivery date & installation. Hardly rocket science.

OOOOkkkay...we do that. We physically show the tile guy what we want. THIS ONE RIGHT HERE IN THIS EXACT COLOUR. Groovy! The guy checks the stock, confirms he has enough of it, we sign (the delivery/installation dates are on the form) pay & go home. True Aspies: clear, precise, nothing superfluous.

A few days later...the phone rings. The tile guy made a mistake: those tiles had been sold & reserved for another customer (!!!) SOooooo...back we go to choose something else (a 45 minute drive!) We choose, sign, pay & leave. Installation day rolls around. The installation guys have laid a few tiles out to arrange them. These are big heavy porcelain tiles from Greece. My husband goes over to take a look. THEY WERE THE WRONG TILES IN THE WRONG SIZE & COLOUR!!! The entire shipment had to go back. This meant calling the kitchen cabinet guys so they don't show up a few days later to do their part (<--- which also got screwed up!) .

SOoooo... my husband calls the supplier, rants & raves & waves his arms about in frustration. WE DRIVE BACK! Show the guy the paper & show him what was sent. OOPS! He was embarrassed. Finally, some time later, the correct tiles in the correct tiles arrived on 2 weeks late & at the wrong time.

For us, this was incredibly frustrating & taxed every single communicate with the NT world skill we had amassed. We were totalled nerves-wise. We did get a discount for all the inconvenience, but that can't be used towards the purchase of sanity.

Experiences like ours goes to show that it isn't always a matter of hearing or even listening: all this was on paper. The NT had so many clients coming & going & so many large projects rolling about in his brain simultaneously that he was screwing up in a big way. It wasn't deliberate but it was very inconvenient & frustrating & it certainly had nothing to do with Asperger's.

 

[Nick12]

Maby she was having a bad day I wish you the best day ever

 

[Alaric593]

Her mother isn't doing her any favors placating the behavior. That's unfortunate. We have enough problems without those who're supposed to model proper behavior modeling unethical behavior; with or without ASD.