Songwriting

[total-recoil]

I've often been experiencing something I thought was exclusive to myself but apparently not. This is basically a swing between feeling very positive about the music you write and then a swing the other way towards negativity.
It may be the case there are some other people floating around here who write their own material, either on guitar, piano, keyboards or using software. I figured I'd share a few ideas and comments on the subject.
For those of you who may already play an instrument but have never tried to put together your own material, maybe you would like to give it a go but aren't sure how to begin?
Back to those negative feelings: I ask myself many times the same question: Am I wasting my time? Are these songs any good? Am I deluding myself? I did a search on Google which was something like "songwriting and self confidence" and then I discovered there are actual seminars and tutorials out there for wannabe songwriters. One particular coach (who had written a lot of great music) shared that he had very often felt his songs were mediocre (while writing) and had often felt tempted to throw in the towel. And he says such feelings are part of the trade and that it's quite natural. And he also claims many songwriters are touchy, hypercritical of themselves and prone to moodswings.
It was also very weird for me to learn that a lot of songwriters tend to play their latest song over and over and over again. It's exactly what I do.
Actually I still have nagging doubts. With other obsessions, you know for sure if you're going to progress, for example, by passing exams or learning more information. However, I find music to be so very different. As I said once before, complexity is not a factor. A three chord song can be better than a complex track. Many of the best musicians wrote simple, flowing numbers that are not difficult at all to play but incredibly hard to have thought up from zero.
So, my questions are:
(1)How many people have tried to write their own songs or tracks or arrangements?
(2)Would you like to put together a really good song (or have already done so)?
(3) Have you ever suffered despair over music - a feeling of undermined self confidence and a feeling of not having what it takes? How do you deal with it?
P.S. I always suspected Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys had aspergers and am aware he suffered terrible self doubt over his music which, for me, is hard to believe as he was so talented.

 

[King_Oni]

(1)How many people have tried to write their own songs or tracks or arrangements?
I couldn't give you a number but I'm one of those folks who writes and records his own tracks... when I have an urge to do so.

(2)Would you like to put together a really good song (or have already done so)?
Of course I would like to put together a really good song, and probably one that makes me money, since that would obviously help my current situation a lot. However, I digress... I don't want to do it for the money. Sure I want to write a good song, but what exactly constitutes a good song?

I don't think any musician in the past wrote a song with the intention to write "a really good song" just for the sake of it being a really good song. Everyone did their best and tried to make it a good song. On the other hand, there's some optimism to it. If you don't try to out do yourself by writing the best song you've ever written, and outdoing yourself for your next song, you will most likely not give it your best.

But with that I guess there's some positivity required as well. Being in a foul mood (for whatever reason) kinda wrecks that optimism you need.

(3) Have you ever suffered despair over music - a feeling of undermined self confidence and a feeling of not having what it takes? How do you deal with it?

Yes, I have... a lot of times. The few times I had this I was lucky enough that I actually was in a band and had the obligiations of showing up at rehearsals. I sometimes came up emptyhanded with no new material, but we'd rehearse the existing material, and jam a bit, see if there's anything that came from there.

Nowadays I'm doing it all solo, and pretty much like said at 2. there needs to be some positivity around to even feel confident and in a writing mood. And then comes criticism to oneself, which is sometimes really harsh. I've thrown out way too many ideas because of this. There's no one else giving feedback so there's no "oh, this might sound good if you do this and this with it"... working solo creates more tunnel vision.

I don't know if scrapping ideas actually undermines selfconfidence. Some ideas are just not good at all. I mean you can polish a turd... but it's still a turd.

How I deal with the ups and downs of songwriting? Move on to other hobbies for a while. Get your mind of music for a while. I have my moments where I, as a (hobby) musician, wont even listen to music at all. Not my own, nor others. I'll listen to podcasts, which are not related to the process I'm shelving for a bit.

However, some people say that you just have to keep at it. Forcing yourself to get something done is fine, but at some point it creates aversion. And losing interest in creating music for a while (or maybe even for life) is not what you would want.

 

[epath13]

Well... Where should I begin... I guess with the questions
1) I've written about 100 songs ... More or less. I started writing at the age of 15 (I'm 34 now)
2) "really good" is a subjective term. Every person decides for him/her self what "really good" means. I am very critical of myself, and I do understand the quality of a song depends on many factors. I've written and recorded songs that are appropriate for a level of my skill at a given moment.
3) I have always thought feeling that way is illogical but I still have. It has nothing to do with music. It has to do with you personal self confidence. Music is a way people express their emotions. For me, in many cases, it's the only way. (The same thing happens when I express myself through art). I have been pretty lucky. A lot of people liked my music and it gave me a boost of confidence. But in the end you do have to decide what you want and why you write music. I write music because I love it, because it sort of come out of me do I want others appreciate it and love it as much as I do? Yes... But again, there many factors that influence people's opinions.
When I judge other people's music, I look at a few things:
does the music have a sole? Is it honest or pretentious? I can't describe it. It's more of an intuitive judgement.
Then the voice is important and skill is important too. I do know it can be obtained with practice, that's why I can give people (and myself ) a break when, for instance, singing is not perfect as long as I like the song overall.
Then it comes down to personal preferences, like the type of music, lyrics, things like that
It's nice to hear a good recording quality, but to me, it's not that important. It only becomes important when i pay money or if the music is a part of some profit based venture. Then I would expect musicians invest in quality.
I would disagree with "polishing turd" I think anything can be turned into a gem well... Maybe almost anything?

I personally struggled a little bit, primarily it was a self-blame issue. I started playing guitar and singing when I was 15. Some of the guys that I played with became pretty good but I didn't because I didn't practice enough... Now I have a different attitude, I guess I have freed myself from being dependent on other people's opinions. Now I write music because I want to, and I do the best I can at this moment. I know my voice has a tremendous potential, and that I can also learn how to play guitar pretty well. As for arrangements... Well, I use an ntuitive approach... So I guess I do what I do. I don't really know how to judge an arrangement... I guess if you brain doesn't reject it as something unpleasant it's ok

 

[total-recoil]

I discovered I have an odd approach to music. It's as if I analyse it like a computer which is hard to explain. When I listen to a song or track, I am interested in the actual mechanics of a riff as well as the combination of sounds. I started to listen to film score music and stuff such as bass patterns and percussion. I find I can sort of scan things that one band may be doing that is unique - the way I discovered years ago use of language is unique (I found different people use certain adverbs repeatedly while others do not and so on). Same with groups and, of course, The Beatles and Stones always fascinated me.
Now when you are using a synth (even a domestic one) as I do the possibilities are enormous. It's as if I have my own recording studio. I've just become aware with electric music one of the big issues is the synth based/drum-machine groups lack a certain raw edge that real groups had. If you listen to early Rolling Stones or early Santana, the sound is raw because the group is playing music that has been "jammed" out. The percussion is more spontaneous and the bass very loud and real. Whereas electric groups are more mechanical.
I have found on my synth I can duplicate this by playing each channel as if I were a different musician each time and so if I'm doing a bass channel, I try to do something improvised and not too mechanical. I know it will never be quite the same, of course, but I'm aware of the distinction. I consider bass very important and am aware it is so temting to ignore it on a synth and only do very simple runs.
With regard to what I wrote so far, I'm now feeling my latest stuff is clearly much better than when I started out. I'm learning now to divide a song into sections (we all know this is common place). I just wrote a song that starts quite soft with some minor chords inserted and no drums at all but then I added a middle section that suddenly bursts into a very fast beat and starts to move. I experimented using acoustic guitar arpeggios and guitar sounds blended in to create the illusion of a jamming sound. I can actually spend up to 8 hours working on this and just drinking coffee. My mood varies between great optimism and occasional despondency (wondering if my time is being well spent).
I have become totally obsessed by this lately and just living for music and a dream I will write something better each time. However, i still study electronics and no intention to drop other interests and I guess with music you need a break every so often.
Two particular musicians inspire me. Pat Metheny is one - a jazz/rock fusion artist who specialises in guitar but also works with Lyle Mays (keyboard).
I'm also inspired by Brian Wilson who I view as a genious, and also intrigued that Brian is thought to have aspergers.
Feel free tp share with me your thoughts and ideas.
P.S. I am now quite aware a lot of really good music is done collectively and that rthis is probably far easier and less pressure. Despite the negative feelings of self-doubt, perhaps if I seek to develop musically I need to dig deep for now and see what I can produce alone in the quiet of my own space which may force me to work harder.

 

[total-recoil]

Good question. What is a good song? It's a problem for me really. I may like the sounds I make and play stuff back over and over again but do other people like it? I don't know. I believe the music audience is very dumbed down today compared to the sixties and I hear a lot of sheer rubbish being played in peoples' cars (often just a banging noise and some "done to death" rap). The rest of what I hear is sadly groups copying each other to satisfy a market drive - all kind of artificial and routine. Compare the sixties when The Beatles were experimenting with all kinds of trends, with Hendrix, The Stones and Beach Boys also hard acts to follow.
A good song I suppose is often simple but everything just flows together as if it belongs and I think harmony is a major factor. Of course, I like music that stresses sound as opposed to harmony but good harmony is tough to string together.
I take your point about money. This is correct and is the cause behind a decline in the mainstream music industry these days because if I wanted to write for money I would lift someone else's famous track, grab a mike and rap over it for a few minutes and possibly get a platinum label.

(1)How many people have tried to write their own songs or tracks or arrangements?
I couldn't give you a number but I'm one of those folks who writes and records his own tracks... when I have an urge to do so.

(2)Would you like to put together a really good song (or have already done so)?
Of course I would like to put together a really good song, and probably one that makes me money, since that would obviously help my current situation a lot. However, I digress... I don't want to do it for the money. Sure I want to write a good song, but what exactly constitutes a good song?

I don't think any musician in the past wrote a song with the intention to write "a really good song" just for the sake of it being a really good song. Everyone did their best and tried to make it a good song. On the other hand, there's some optimism to it. If you don't try to out do yourself by writing the best song you've ever written, and outdoing yourself for your next song, you will most likely not give it your best.

But with that I guess there's some positivity required as well. Being in a foul mood (for whatever reason) kinda wrecks that optimism you need.

(3) Have you ever suffered despair over music - a feeling of undermined self confidence and a feeling of not having what it takes? How do you deal with it?

Yes, I have... a lot of times. The few times I had this I was lucky enough that I actually was in a band and had the obligiations of showing up at rehearsals. I sometimes came up emptyhanded with no new material, but we'd rehearse the existing material, and jam a bit, see if there's anything that came from there.

Nowadays I'm doing it all solo, and pretty much like said at 2. there needs to be some positivity around to even feel confident and in a writing mood. And then comes criticism to oneself, which is sometimes really harsh. I've thrown out way too many ideas because of this. There's no one else giving feedback so there's no "oh, this might sound good if you do this and this with it"... working solo creates more tunnel vision.

I don't know if scrapping ideas actually undermines selfconfidence. Some ideas are just not good at all. I mean you can polish a turd... but it's still a turd.

How I deal with the ups and downs of songwriting? Move on to other hobbies for a while. Get your mind of music for a while. I have my moments where I, as a (hobby) musician, wont even listen to music at all. Not my own, nor others. I'll listen to podcasts, which are not related to the process I'm shelving for a bit.

However, some people say that you just have to keep at it. Forcing yourself to get something done is fine, but at some point it creates aversion. And losing interest in creating music for a while (or maybe even for life) is not what you would want.

 

[Mellotron]

Good topic! Cool to see other musicians here

(1)How many people have tried to write their own songs or tracks or arrangements?
I have co-written a bunch of songs in bands and then written songs my own. I currently write, perform, and record on my own.

(2)Would you like to put together a really good song (or have already done so)?
Its weird for me to say what is a good song of mine. If I feel a song is going in an awful direction I either stop or try to change where it is going. My opinion of my songs changes over time, like something I wrote 5 years ago or so I don't like as much as something I did more recently. Although there are others I've done that I am still proud of from longer ago. So it varies I guess. But I do have my favorites.

(3) Have you ever suffered despair over music - a feeling of undermined self confidence and a feeling of not having what it takes? How do you deal with it?
Yes! I've often thought "oh what is the point, who will hear this?" or "this song is going nowhere, I must suck", stuff like that. Sometimes I take breaks, a day, month, longer, and come back to it to finish it or start something new. I find I can get bogged down by trying to perfect it or over think it and I need to step away and come back later.

 

[pacman]

(1)How many people have tried to write their own songs or tracks or arrangements?
I have done that, but I have unfortunately been a lot less actice with it now.

(2)Would you like to put together a really good song (or have already done so)?
I would. I have completed some stuff. Whether or not it is good is up for others to decide, I guess

(3) Have you ever suffered despair over music - a feeling of undermined self confidence and a feeling of not having what it takes? How do you deal with it?
I have, but for me, music is mainly a hobby, so I don't get too stressed over it. Sometimes the feeling passes for unknown reasons.

 

[total-recoil]

UPDATE: I have taken a pretty serious decision to now make music my main activity, specifically writing songs. I am still doing electronics and still progressing with my work with valves (or tubes) and anyway I guess this could be useful anyway as many people still swear valves amplify better than silicon transistors. So, i still work regularly and hard on electronics theory, but my major effort is now going in the direction of music. I'm now writing a lot of songs and they appear to be continually getting better. I spend a lot of time studying and listening to musicians I admire because I'm learning that to play synthesiser the way I want to play means really studying how bass players, drummers and instrumentalists sound. I try to listen to a wide range of music and my main role models are The Beatles, Rolling Stones (with Brian Jones), Pat Metheny Group, Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys and Green Gartside.
Basically, I believe the more you practice and work at trying to produce melodies and synchronised songs, the better you get. These days I may practice as much as 6 hours at a time and now have a whole pile of songs that are sort of disjointed and disconnected and just need finishing. It's quite funny as I was practising yesterday and evidently there were people who could hear me working on a track through the window. I then got an actual complaint that I had been playing this song over and over again that many times it was driving them crazy. So, I wrote another song as a bit of a joke and it turned out to be about the best so far. I just did a simple riff on bass synth, added a simple drum beat and then overdubbed a funky arepeggio progression and after adding some synth chords, the sound was really cool. And people liked it.
Plan very soon is to start recording completed tracks and I'm also looking into more professional equipment.
P.S. The lesson I learned recently is it's not the skill so much as the way you blend the sounds and often simplicity is good.

(1)How many people have tried to write their own songs or tracks or arrangements?
I have done that, but I have unfortunately been a lot less actice with it now.

(2)Would you like to put together a really good song (or have already done so)?
I would. I have completed some stuff. Whether or not it is good is up for others to decide, I guess

(3) Have you ever suffered despair over music - a feeling of undermined self confidence and a feeling of not having what it takes? How do you deal with it?
I have, but for me, music is mainly a hobby, so I don't get too stressed over it. Sometimes the feeling passes for unknown reasons.

 

[total-recoil]

I still get the mood swings. There are still times when I question whether I am dreaming and that, in actual fact, the music I make would not be enjoyed by anyone. It's like falling down a well. The other night I was reading about Green Gartside who is a musician I admire enormously. He created a band called Scritty Politty in the eighties and comes from a very dead, lifeless part of Wales. Gartside changed the sound of his group from Punk and Indie to a kind of funky New Wave and they produced a series of hits. Yet I was amazed to read Gartside never listens to the songs and sometimes believed he's a kind of fraud who just got lucky with music. Anyone interested can listen to WoodBeez (pray like Aretha Franklin) or The Word Girl on YOUTUBE. This group was pretty big in the eighties but later Gartside burned out and had a temporary mental breakdown.

(1)How many people have tried to write their own songs or tracks or arrangements?
I have done that, but I have unfortunately been a lot less actice with it now.

(2)Would you like to put together a really good song (or have already done so)?
I would. I have completed some stuff. Whether or not it is good is up for others to decide, I guess

(3) Have you ever suffered despair over music - a feeling of undermined self confidence and a feeling of not having what it takes? How do you deal with it?
I have, but for me, music is mainly a hobby, so I don't get too stressed over it. Sometimes the feeling passes for unknown reasons.