Stereo Listening Thread

[Mr. Stevens]

I see there are some music makers and passionate listeners here, so I wanted to start a thread on sound mixes and the power of aural space. I love hearing something with a proper speaker setup. It's very immersive. I'm not referring to the type of equipment, necessary, but speaker placement and how it presents a sound mix accurately. Also how mixes are made for this. Some bands, like The Ramones or Pixies, tend to have uninteresting mixes, which work well with their style of music. It's very direct. But, others have more involved mixes meant to evoke space, and those mixes are as important as what's being played.

Hopefully other people find this as fun to talk about as I do. (Also, I use the word stereo referring to equipment. If people want to talk about great mono mixes, go ahead.)

Anyway, here are a few of my favorites:

This album was inspired by The Beach Boys, Burt Bacharach, and different soundtrack composers (John Barry, Morricone), among other things. It has a nice range of instruments and a lot of transitions using radio static and other electronic sounds. It's also full of crossfades and abrupt cuts. A very dynamic, sensory experience.

This one is very simple, but clear and full. I suppose it's more involved than their other recordings, but I like how direct they keep the music while adding depth. A good pop recording with a lot of color and texture. The music still surrounds you.

A pretty straightforward rock record, but with a lot of nice, clear guitar sounds. Again, the music surrounds you. The mix really articulates what's there, but it still feels very live.

This feels fairly audiophile to me. They had a bigger budget and wanted to explore some different pop styles, and everything feels like it was recorded and mixed with a lot of clarity. I like how full the songs are, but since it's REM there is still a lot of intimacy.

Pet Shop Boys - "West End Girls"

The fade-in is perfect with your speakers positioned right. It feels like the cars are driving on a slick road between your speakers.

 

[Luca]

I love my speaker system, even though it's over 10 years old. I unfortunately cannot play it at a good volume where I live right now.
At my old house, I had 170w speakers that I'm hoping I can resurrect when I move again.

 

[Slime_Punk]

Is this the polar opposite of 'best headphone music'?

I get this feeling I hear music differently than 99%+ of the population. I love a great 'headphone' mix, but the examples are so nontraditional that they likely wouldn't fit in here

 

[Mr. Stevens]

Is this the polar opposite of 'best headphone music'?

I get this feeling I hear music differently than 99%+ of the population. I love a great 'headphone' mix, but the examples are so nontraditional that they likely wouldn't fit in here

I'd say the difference with speaker placement, is the sound is meant to overlap to a degree. Things tend to sound best with your speakers making an equilateral triangle, with you as the third point. Whereas with headphones, both speakers are pointed at your ears directly. So I guess it overlaps in a different way. Both are interesting, but different experiences.

If you want to post great headphone mixes I think that would be awesome, so go ahead!

 

[Rodafina]

This is all very interesting to me.

@Mr. Stevens, do you have speakers that you regularly move around based on what you’re listening to?

I am reminded that most of the speakers that I’ve purchased in the last several years have the left and right speaker attached into one unit.

I wonder how much of these mixes that you’re talking about are affected by the mass production and availability of connected bluetooth speakers. It would take all the fun out of it.

It reminds me a bit of the first time I watched a movie with surround sound, in the theater. I think it would’ve been in the mid 90s. It scared me the first few times.

I also remember a revelatory moment in my school orchestra where we learned a song and the teacher/conductor showed us how we could play really loudly, then very quietly, because the song was about a train that was moving closer and then further away.

I know these examples are not exactly related to the thread, but I do find it fascinating how sound can create or enhance a space in very intentional ways.

 

[Lysholm]

I used to take this stuff more seriously, until I ran across a YouTube channel that had master tracks before they were mixed and I was permanently disillusioned by how the mix hid how badly professionals sing and play. Like, you take apart a super popular, polished song and the individual tracks sound like they were played at a karaoke bar. I'm talking about string and percussion music, not synth stuff BTW.

Of course, era makes a huge difference. Clapton and Knopfler are smooth operators, but Billy Corgan and Armstrong are not. The former tending to let individual tracks stand out, while the latter mixed everything together so much you couldn't tell how badly they performed in studio. I'm not making a judgement mind you, these just offer a completely different experience. For example, Cobain's inconsistent playing was part of his appeal and the lo-fi recording equipment of the fifties is part of that appeal. Which is why I like them all...and Lizzo and Youngblud (don't ask me to explain that last one though, LOL).

-

As for the equipment itself, the best setup is tower speakers with four or more drivers each and belligerent amounts of power. There is no replacement for displacement (excursion). Whether it's an explosion or twenty violinists in an orchestra, a ton of power is required to recreate that sound intensity - not just power to create the sound, but power to precisely control the momentum of said drivers (fidelity).

That being said, as I've aged, all this has become less important. Plus, I realized - to my shock - that not everyone can hear nuances in sound reproduction. I just bought a sound bar w/sub and it's pretty good for how space saving everything is. I think it's blatantly weak in the mids where the vocals are, but my wife thinks her music and shows sound "really good." The only place for the sub was behind the couch. It does a good job, but the crossover on the sub is pre-set so high I can often tell it's coming from behind and it's distracting AF. Meanwhile my wife was so clueless to all this she didn't even know there was a sub. She just thought it sounded "really good." Like WTF? Of course, maybe I'm being too harsh and many people enjoy things moreso at an unconscious level. The appeal may indeed be in being unaware of why something is satisfying. I'll never understand that, though.

 

[Progster]

I'm in the process of building a new hi fi system. I already have Rega P6 turntable with a Hana SH cartridge, and Harbeth SHL5+ speakers are on their way to me. I have an old tube amplifier which I'm not sure is a good match for the Harbeths, so I may need a new one, possibly a solid state amp. I have an older Bluesound Node which I could never get to work. I will probably need a subwoofer, will need a DAC and NAS drive. All expensive stuff, so will build it up gradually as I can afford it. I sold a couple more things and have some more money. I figure that I don't need a car as I work from home and rarely need to go far, so the money I would have otherwise have spent on a car will go on music and upgrades.

I know that speaker placement within a space is important, and when choosing speakers it's important to keep the space where they will exist in mind. I'll probably spend quite some time tweeking things to hit that sonic sweet spot.

 

[Rodafina]

I know that speaker placement within a space is important, and when choosing speakers it's important to keep the space where they will exist in mind. I'll probably spend quite some time tweeking things to hit that sonic sweet spot.

I’ve been doing this all wrong for years now! I have fallen prey to convenient and easy listening through tiny bluetooth speakers.

Good advice.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

This is all very interesting to me.

@Mr. Stevens, do you have speakers that you regularly move around based on what you’re listening to?

I am reminded that most of the speakers that I’ve purchased in the last several years have the left and right speaker attached into one unit.

I do not move my speakers around. I used measuring tape to space them equally, and point them toward where I sit on the couch to listen (which is also at an equal distance from them). So I have that "sweet spot" Progster mentioned. My current place isn't that ideal (it's tight), but I still found a decent place to put the speakers. If you're able to set yours up like this, then pretty much anything should sound as good as it will. Some recordings will seem to have more depth of sound, while others may be simpler than you thought.

I never really understood speaker placement until more recently, either. When when I say "proper," I mean it's my understanding that music is generally mixed with this in mind. I certainly don't mean to criticize how anyone listens and I'm not saying their enjoyment is lesser with a different setup. But, by changing my speakers' positions I've certainly found new enjoyment in a lot of recordings.

I wonder how much of these mixes that you’re talking about are affected by the mass production and availability of connected bluetooth speakers. It would take all the fun out of it.

I don't know if they'd be affected by bluetooth. I think you can enjoy a mix on any speakers, really. Some may sound better than others, but their placement probably goes a long way in making something sound good.

It reminds me a bit of the first time I watched a movie with surround sound, in the theater. I think it would’ve been in the mid 90s. It scared me the first few times.

I also remember a revelatory moment in my school orchestra where we learned a song and the teacher/conductor showed us how we could play really loudly, then very quietly, because the song was about a train that was moving closer and then further away.

I know these examples are not exactly related to the thread, but I do find it fascinating how sound can create or enhance a space in very intentional ways.

That is a cool example about physical space. There's a Beach Boys recording where they sing while walking into the room, instead of using a fade in with the mixing board.

I find all this interesting because music is very physical for me. It's like getting a massage. So I enjoy feeling overtaken by a recording. It can be fun for all kinds of music. I really love listening to Beach Boys a cappella mixes this way, for example. There are some great stereo mixes of just their vocal parts with a lot of clarity. One favorite (which is on Spotify, too):

The voices mixed in the center will seem like they'e floating above/between the speakers. The others will be nice accents on the left or right. You can really feel surrounded by it, even without a genuine surround setup.

Not to ramble, but I hope that gives you a better idea of what I meant. If you like the Beatles, you might also compare some of their stereo mixes before 1968 to something like Abbey Road. Those earlier mixes were done when stereo wasn't dominant, and can be fairly awkward--at least to me. For example, vocals in the right speaker, drums in the left. On Abbey Road you have more things centered, with specific details in just one speaker (left or right). This gives a sense of the band playing in front of you. I think speaker placement can definitely enhance the illusions creating that effect, and other things in a recording.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[Rodafina]

I hope that makes sense.

Makes tons of sense, and is very interesting.

There's a Beach Boys recording where they sing while walking into the room, instead of using a fade in with the mixing board.

So cool!

 

[Rodafina]

I certainly don't mean to criticize how anyone listens and I'm not saying their enjoyment is lesser with a different setup

I don’t think it seems like you’re saying that. You’re just sharing your interesting experience, not trying to tell anyone else how to do it.

It’s very fascinating, though, for someone like me who loves music but hasn’t really thought about speaker placement since the 90s, when I last purchased a boombox with removable speakers that I could face in different directions.

 

[Jordy]

I like the velvet underground.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

I like the velvet underground.

They worked with some great engineers at Verve.

I also really love Berlin, Transformer, and Metal Machine Music.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

Another favorite. I forgot what a great listen this is. I especially love the way they blend the beats, vocals, and string parts.

 

[abby normal]

i listen to everything in stereo surround. i use DES/SSS to extract stereo from mono recordings.

 

[Human Avatar]

When I was a teenager my favorite set up was quadraphonic.

I had 4 speakers - one in each corner of the room and the I would sit or lay down on the direct middle of the room .

Unfortunately you have to find Albums mixed in quadraphonic.

There is a extreme Art to mixing and recording , I have learned this from listening, studying , and research. Unfortunately in the digital age all of that is a digital algorithm now.

But when I produced my last band I found a studio to record us onto tape. And I spent hours mixing and guiding the engineer what I wanted . Every microphone on every instrument. It cost a lot more money because I was after a particular sound , if we could not get it I would give the engineer a song reference of a particular band or song . And we would figure it out .

The mixing and engineering could take longer than recording the music . Especially with me around . And also your ears get fatigued. So believe it or not when I was mixing and producing , I made the volume so low you could just slightly here it . If it sounds good quiet, it will sound amazing loud !

All these things will be projected to you the listener.,Interesting thing about ,Brian Wilson form The Beach Boys is he only has hearing in one ear . So as far as I know he only cared about mono mix .

 

[Mr. Stevens]

The mixing and engineering could take longer than recording the music . Especially with me around . And also your ears get fatigued. So believe it or not when I was mixing and producing , I made the volume so low you could just slightly here it . If it sounds good quiet, it will sound amazing loud !

Great point. That's one reason I love the early Stereolab records. I prefer the music on their later releases, but the early ones were so quiet. You can really crank them up. Too often bad mastering just makes things sound cluttered and un-musical.

All these things will be project to you the listener.,Interesting thing Brian Wilson form The Beach Boys is he only has hearing in one ear . So as far as I know he only cared about mono mix .

That is true about his ear. Part of his reason for using mono, though, is because it was really the standard until about 1968. Though maybe you know that. When The Beach Boys put out Friends in 68, Carl helped Brian mix it to stereo. Unlike a lot of 60s bands, though, the Beach Boys had a period with no stereo mixes. I'm guessing that was Brian's request and that he didn't want to take the time, but I'm not sure. (They had duophonic...or fake stereo...releases, instead.). Apparently The Beatles didn't supervise their stereo mixes until 1968, and I know The Velvet Underground saw the stereo mix of their first LP as an afterthought.

 

[Human Avatar]

Great point. That's one reason I love the early Stereolab records. I prefer the music on their later releases, but the early ones were so quiet. You can really crank them up. Too often bad mastering just makes things sound cluttered and un-musical.

Yeah there could be a good explanation for that as well , as the years went on master recordings got louder and louder, mastering is another art I will not even touch . Leave that to the professionals.

That is true about his ear. Part of his reason for using mono, though, is because it was really the standard until about 1968.

I understand that , to this day Pet Sounds is so clean and crisp sounding to me . And I can hear every instrument.

Though maybe you know that. When The Beach Boys put out Friends in 68, Carl helped Brian mix it to stereo.

Interesting I did not know this !

Unlike a lot of 60s bands, though, the Beach Boys had a period with no stereo mixes. I'm guessing that was Brian's request and that he didn't want to take the time, but I'm not sure. (They had duophonic...or fake stereo...releases, instead.).

Yeah I have heard This for sure . There is also a great quality and something in a mono mix that stereo does not have .

Another thing I would do when mixing just to get all of the bands levels where I want them to sit I would do a Mono mix only . When I could hear everything just right , then I start the stereo mix process. This seemed to work out like magic for me .

Apparently The Beatles didn't supervise their stereo mixes until 1968, and I know The Velvet Underground saw the stereo mix of their first LP as an afterthought.

Oh yea I have heard that about the Beatles . I remember hearing their early stereo mixed thinking , hmmm they could have put more effort into this . But now I understand at the time mono was the order of the day

 

[Human Avatar]

Also a very interesting book that will dive into exactly what you are talking about on here , By David Byrne who is also autistic. And well we all know of his band The Talking Heads , Jerry Harrison from talking heads is autistic as well .
One of the early choices for them of a band name was “The Autistics”

David is really into history and sound . If you haven’t read this you will really like this book

 

[Mr. Stevens]

Also a very interesting book that will dive into exactly what you are talking about on here , By David Byrne who is also autistic. And well we all know of his band The Talking Heads , Jerry Harrison from talking heads is autistic as well .
One of the early choices for them of a band name was “The Autistics”

David is really into history and sound . I you haven’t read this you will really like this bookView attachment 91831

I've been meaning to read that, so I should finally pick up a copy. Thanks for the recommendation! I didn't know that about Jerry Harrison, either.

Speaking of Pet Sounds and Brian Wilson...I love how exact his music is, but how he would leave random chatter in the mixes. It kind of makes you feel like you're there (even though they weren't live recordings).