Since I've joined this site, and spoken with other aspies, I have a better understanding of myself. I didn't feel as ashamed or damaged as the NT world would have me believe. I began to see myself a little more positively , and open with my wants and emotions. It felt good not having to hide who I was or apologise for what I was. But I have found a downside to this new thinking. The NT world that circles me, is used to seeing me, a particular way. My attempts to be myself have been seen as arrogant and self serving. In the beginning I thought f...k em, I'm going to take back what is rightfully mine. My world involves heavy NT interaction, both at work, and a relationship level. The sheer weight of numbers, who are resistant to my change, have driven me back to hiding myself. The fight to be me, has taken such a toll, I feel more damaged, than when I started this journey. Has anyone found that despite requests for change, no one will allow it to happen?
-
Welcome to Autism Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Aspergers Syndrome, Autism, High Functioning Autism and related conditions.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
- Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon! Please also check us out @ https://www.twitter.com/aspiescentral
The cost of self awareness
- Thread starter Turk
- Start date
atrocityexhibition
Well-Known Member
Well, you see, I have taken my own self-realization in a different way. By talking to people on the website and learning what ASD other people's problems are, and how many people I share those problems with, it's helped me to adapt to the rest of the world, but I don't feel like it's the same as hoisting the white flag of surrender.
In other words, by becoming self-aware, you can avoid conflict more easily and that can help you avoid the nasties that go out of their way to make you feel bad. The reality is though that the world is not going to change to suit our ways, and that we have to make an effort to be more in sync with the world if we are able to. It doesn't mean not being who you really are though, it just means being tactful and trying avoid conflict. What exactly are you trying to get the NT world to change in regards to?
In other words, by becoming self-aware, you can avoid conflict more easily and that can help you avoid the nasties that go out of their way to make you feel bad. The reality is though that the world is not going to change to suit our ways, and that we have to make an effort to be more in sync with the world if we are able to. It doesn't mean not being who you really are though, it just means being tactful and trying avoid conflict. What exactly are you trying to get the NT world to change in regards to?
I'm a high functioning aspie, who has been married to an NT for 24 years, and a career that spans over 30, so I'm a veteran at avoiding conflict. Their world damages me, yet I'm supposed to integrate, which I do. My opinions ands and beliefs mirror their world, in this pursuit. I suppose what I'm looking for, is to express a view which is mine, without someone screaming "aspie". A little thing called tolerance. The thing that I extend to them, when I don't necessarily agree with them. Just for once I'd like my comments to be a difference of opinion, and not the need for an intervention. Having the Aspie tag, apparently, diminishes the importance of my input. The things I wish for are not radical, in nature. Mostly just a logical cool difference of opinion. So I'm not looking for them to roll out the red carpet, with alter boys dropping petals, for me to walk on, while the high priest bows to the almighty Turk . All I'm looking for is something that gives me a little identity, that has me being seen as an individual.
Self-awareness for me was understanding why stuff went wrong... and to some extent was me trying to make it work anyway. At some point it felt like I finally had a good reason not to walk against the wall every time and hope I would go through it.
As for being part of the NT world; Meh... my interaction with (presumable) NT's is exchange of money and goods at the store... that's about it. Long before I had my AS label I already knew it wasn't work with most people... and as it seems the folks that I actually have somewhat meaningful relationships with are all on the spectrum... go figure.
As for being part of the NT world; Meh... my interaction with (presumable) NT's is exchange of money and goods at the store... that's about it. Long before I had my AS label I already knew it wasn't work with most people... and as it seems the folks that I actually have somewhat meaningful relationships with are all on the spectrum... go figure.
DogwoodTree
Still here...
Granted, this diagnosis is very new for me, but I've been part of other "fringe" groups before, too, and I've always felt "different" even when being part of mainstream groups. For me in my mind, it's important not to develop an "us" and "them" mentality. Nobody's normal. There's no such thing as normal. We're all weird someway, somehow, all deficient in some area or another, all caught in some kind of personality trap, even if it's just trapped believing the only way to have value is to look "normal".
Rabbit trail: There are people who are more boring and people who are more interesting...but I'd classify most aspies in the interesting group, I think, because aspies tend to think so deeply about things.
Point is, with 4 kids, 2 of whom show aspie tendencies, 1 who seems more the opposite end of that spectrum (dyslexic?), and 1 who refuses to be placed in any kind of box whatsoever...I love all 4 of them for exactly who they are. I wouldn't move any of them somewhere else on the spectrum of crazy-normal-aspie-dyslexic-whateverelseyouwanttocallit.
And none of them is perfect. All of them will come up short in areas. All of them need unconditional love because none of them can earn love perfectly.
So I agree with you--self awareness hurts in some ways because you can no longer just go with the flow of what everyone else is doing. I'm painfully aware that the facade I show the world isn't really representative of what's inside me. And the more I let out what's inside me, the more unlikable I become in so many ways. But to respond to them with, "I don't like you, either, because you're not like me...because you have problems that are different than mine," doesn't help anything.
My personal calling in life...my life's ambition...is to learn how to love people no matter what's wrong with them...to even like people who (at least at first) seem unlikable. Because I know that I don't deserve any better. And maybe in the process, I'll find people who know how to like me exactly for who I am.
Like you guys.
Rabbit trail: There are people who are more boring and people who are more interesting...but I'd classify most aspies in the interesting group, I think, because aspies tend to think so deeply about things.
Point is, with 4 kids, 2 of whom show aspie tendencies, 1 who seems more the opposite end of that spectrum (dyslexic?), and 1 who refuses to be placed in any kind of box whatsoever...I love all 4 of them for exactly who they are. I wouldn't move any of them somewhere else on the spectrum of crazy-normal-aspie-dyslexic-whateverelseyouwanttocallit.
And none of them is perfect. All of them will come up short in areas. All of them need unconditional love because none of them can earn love perfectly.
So I agree with you--self awareness hurts in some ways because you can no longer just go with the flow of what everyone else is doing. I'm painfully aware that the facade I show the world isn't really representative of what's inside me. And the more I let out what's inside me, the more unlikable I become in so many ways. But to respond to them with, "I don't like you, either, because you're not like me...because you have problems that are different than mine," doesn't help anything.
My personal calling in life...my life's ambition...is to learn how to love people no matter what's wrong with them...to even like people who (at least at first) seem unlikable. Because I know that I don't deserve any better. And maybe in the process, I'll find people who know how to like me exactly for who I am.
Like you guys.
Ereth
Well-Known Member
I suppose I'm in the minority here, but I don't feel that my diagnosis has changed me much in terms of self-awareness. I've always known I was different---just for reasons other than the ASD. I've grown up trying to understand the world, its history, and the people in it. Now I'm just a little more informed about why I feel certain things.
It's not that I generally live the us and them mentally. Ive spent a lifetime as compromise, and function without judgement on most. I suppose what bothers me most, is the essence of what you said. We feel deeper on many occasions. But this goes largely unnoticed, and it does kind of bother me. As you say, everyone has their issues, but I seem to be apologising more, to cater for someone else's issue's. When your apologising or changing the way you behave to suit others, you create a self inflated opinion within that person, that they are always right. It's a slippery slope. I find the balance between passive acceptance and assertiveness, frustrating. It gets under my skin when a calm difference of opinion, can be ended by sometime playing the Aspie card, to end. It shouldn't matter, as long as I know that I'm behaving appropriately, but it depends on who that person is, in your lifeGranted, this diagnosis is very new for me, but I've been part of other "fringe" groups before, too, and I've always felt "different" even when being part of mainstream groups. For me in my mind, it's important not to develop an "us" and "them" mentality. Nobody's normal. There's no such thing as normal. We're all weird someway, somehow, all deficient in some area or another, all caught in some kind of personality trap, even if it's just trapped believing the only way to have value is to look "normal".
Rabbit trail: There are people who are more boring and people who are more interesting...but I'd classify most aspies in the interesting group, I think, because aspies tend to think so deeply about things.
Point is, with 4 kids, 2 of whom show aspie tendencies, 1 who seems more the opposite end of that spectrum (dyslexic?), and 1 who refuses to be placed in any kind of box whatsoever...I love all 4 of them for exactly who they are. I wouldn't move any of them somewhere else on the spectrum of crazy-normal-aspie-dyslexic-whateverelseyouwanttocallit.
And none of them is perfect. All of them will come up short in areas. All of them need unconditional love because none of them can earn love perfectly.
So I agree with you--self awareness hurts in some ways because you can no longer just go with the flow of what everyone else is doing. I'm painfully aware that the facade I show the world isn't really representative of what's inside me. And the more I let out what's inside me, the more unlikable I become in so many ways. But to respond to them with, "I don't like you, either, because you're not like me...because you have problems that are different than mine," doesn't help anything.
My personal calling in life...my life's ambition...is to learn how to love people no matter what's wrong with them...to even like people who (at least at first) seem unlikable. Because I know that I don't deserve any better. And maybe in the process, I'll find people who know how to like me exactly for who I am.
Like you guys.
Saragrl
Well-Known Member
For me, being self aware made me realize I am very different from NT's. The more I learn the more I realize how little I mean to the people in my life. No matter what I say I am dismissed like I am making it up. I feel more alone than ever. This is the only place I can talk about something and feel like some one is listening to me. Sorry if this sound angry, on the verge of a meltdown.
DogwoodTree
Still here...
I'm nowhere close to having that dilemma figured out, so whatever I say, take it or leave it, lol.
For me, in certain and brief moments of clarity, the key seems to be whether I accept myself. That doesn't mean I can do anything I want, because there are things I do that I don't want to be doing. So my areas of weakness that I don't like about me are the areas I work on...usually having to do with ethical/moral issues and obligations, like forcing myself to come out of my shell for the sake of my DH or my kids. But if it's something that I can accept about myself...like not wanting to hug certain people or not wanting to be around my dad at all...I don't try to change those things because I've decided those are traits about myself that I'm willing to accept and just let people work around it, whether they like it or not.
It's my choice the way I behave. Those choices have consequences. Am I willing to live with the consequences?
Then the more I can accept my own freedom in my own choices...the more I can accept and even encourage the freedom of others in their choices.
If I don't feel like going out bowling with my mom and the kids, but my DH does...that's his choice. The consequence is they get to go have a good time together, and I miss out on that time with them. Sometimes I choose to miss out, and sometimes I'd rather put up with the noise and smells and sensory overload and social demands of being around my mom so I can have that time with my family.
DH and I together are trying to figure out...where's the line between what he and I both have the freedom to choose vs. what we each "owe" to the other.
For example, he's very touchy-feely and really needs regular, physical contact. It's a legitimate, genetic need of his--it's the way he's built (two of our kids are the same way). As his wife, I owe him my best effort at meeting that need. But with my background of abuse (flashbacks, etc) and my touch sensitivities, sometimes my best effort just isn't good enough. Out of love, he trusts that I'm doing my best and tolerates less than what he really needs. Out of love, I push myself as far as I can without going so far that I fall back into some serious flashbacks and depression. We're both giving in freedom, and both accepting that neither will get a perfect experience.
I may have oversimplified all of that. It doesn't work out nearly so neatly in real life. He goes for weeks at a time feeling completely abandoned by me. (Welcome to our world, right?) I go for weeks at a time feeling deeply guilty that I'm not the healthy wife he deserves. The other day, I was deeply hurting that it feels like all the problems are always blamed on *my* issues, as if he never does anything wrong. I think he saw what I was feeling, and made an effort to take ownership of the situation at hand that day. But we don't have it all figured out yet. There's still soooo much to work through!
Balance is the key to all things good in life. It sounds as though you new found confidence could use a little fine tuning. Don't be too discouraged. It will take a while for you, and the people that know you to get used to change. Eventually you will find a comfort zone. Hang in there.
Lukas
Aspie At Large
It takes a real human being to be able to look in the mirror and accept the reflection of the true self. (the second gate of Fantasia for those that know the film/book) "Most people run away screaming."
You are obviously a real human being. Human beings are rare these days, and frequently are feared by a society that encourages facades and thrives on deceptions. Honesty and truth are rarely on the menu in the world these days.
Bravely keeping true to your true self brings happiness and contentment... I truly believe that.
You are obviously a real human being. Human beings are rare these days, and frequently are feared by a society that encourages facades and thrives on deceptions. Honesty and truth are rarely on the menu in the world these days.
Bravely keeping true to your true self brings happiness and contentment... I truly believe that.
Daniel
Well-Known Member
I have had difficulties like this. In order to be more of myself as an Aspie, I have to go against the NT grain. And because I'm surrounded by NTs, the compromises always seemed stacked in their favour.
Me becoming more self-aware actually contributed to the end of my marriage! There were multiple factors, but in each case, me doing things because they were the best for me meant growing apart from my partner. The only way it could have worked would have been for me to compromise completely. And I was kind of willing to do that, but God bless her, she didn't want to have to do that.
It's like my reward for becoming more self-aware is that my life is now more challenging than it ever was before! And it's been tough accepting that.
I love that this thread started today... I just read this yesterday, from Matt Licata: 'As Carl Jung so poignantly reminds us, we do not become enlightened by "imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious." He went on to say that the integral journey of the dark *and* the light is one that is often "disagreeable" and thus would never be popular.'
It occurred to me that I'm going to have to accept being sad, being angry, feeling depleted and drained now and then, and especially--feeling different and unable to go with the flow like others (i.e. NTs) do. And it's occurring to me that this is all okay.
Most likely so; yet if groups start doing it (considering AS is a disorder as such; and there are seemingly more people without AS), it does make for a problematic situation, much like where plenty of other "minorities" are being invalidated, just for the sake of being minorities. I mean, racism and sexism are out there as well... and have been for quite some time already.
Hey guys, I'm new here.
Firstly, english is not my native tongue so I may have issues expressing myself the way I really want to.
Reading trough this thread has been very confronting because I've never talked at all about everything thats bothering me, so in a way its never left my thoughts and remained abstract.
It would seem I'm not alone in having to deal with certain issues. Very specific issues.
I feel more connected with you lot then my best friend at the moment.
Thank you!
Firstly, english is not my native tongue so I may have issues expressing myself the way I really want to.
Reading trough this thread has been very confronting because I've never talked at all about everything thats bothering me, so in a way its never left my thoughts and remained abstract.
It would seem I'm not alone in having to deal with certain issues. Very specific issues.
I feel more connected with you lot then my best friend at the moment.
Thank you!
Randomperson
The abyss of my mind.
Well, your friend should perhaps know more about you then, if you feel it is appropriate. The only person I consider to be a friend knows just about everything there is to know about me and I know a good deal about my friend, and accepts me for who I am and I accept my friend the same. So that makes her a true friend to me.
We share an appartment. He happens to be gay and very caring, he's always there for me when I need him.
I don't need to burden him with whats bothering me or to know everything there is about me, I just need him around.
I don't feel connected to him but I don't feel that it makes our friendship any less valluable.
Like most others here, I've had both pros and cons to "coming out". The main issue here is lack of understanding. As we are yet to live in a world where most people are aware of us, let alone accepting of our ways, it seems in our best interest to find the right balance.
I actually answered a similar post today, which I can repeat here.
The World Is Not What I Expected | Page 2 | AspiesCentral.com
I actually answered a similar post today, which I can repeat here.
The World Is Not What I Expected | Page 2 | AspiesCentral.com
adamindeltona
Well-Known Member
I think diagnosis was the beginning of the end of my marriage too. My ex was always quite understanding that I was "different" but was always on a mission to help me change (unsuccessfully). Once we realized the why of things, I think she came to conclusion I was unchangeable and then her level of compassion & patience seemed to disappear.
I think understanding why I am the way I am is nice. I've come a long way to be as high functioning as I am, I think my level of intellect and level of perception helped me hide behind a mask of "normal" so most people don't know I have aspergers unless I tell them, most people just assume I'm odd.
I think understanding why I am the way I am is nice. I've come a long way to be as high functioning as I am, I think my level of intellect and level of perception helped me hide behind a mask of "normal" so most people don't know I have aspergers unless I tell them, most people just assume I'm odd.
Lukas
Aspie At Large
I totally understand this.... Both my ex-wives tried, quite in vain, to 'help' me by trying to 'change' me. Although I was not diagnosed AS at the time, both of them knew beforehand that I was extremely different. I suppose they had good intentions, but when their attempts failed, they bailed. So much for the vows. Now I distrust anyone displaying any romantic interest in my at all. So much for having a life partner.
Diagnosis as an Aspie has been very helpful to me in figuring out why my life has unfolded as it has, and gives me a great tool to better my tomorrows, but honestly, I fear I am doomed to live alone the rest of my life due to societal ignorance, apathy, and intolerance.
Nonetheless, I cannot help but 'come out' as an Aspie. I'll tell the whole planet. I have too really, (part of my issues with deception). It is who I am and although others may have issues with it, I don't and that is what matters.
Postscript-- I do harbor a hope, albeit rather slight, in finding a life partner one day. It will be a total bloody miracle! But you never know what tomorrow may bring...
