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The Four Love Problems. What's Been Your Best Experience Addressing Them?

If there are four kinds of love, how many do you experience at the same time when you're happy?

  • I don't think there are four kinds of love. See my comment.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I need only one at a time to be happy. I'll tell you why, below.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I need two kinds at a time to be happy. Doesn't matter which two. See my comment.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Totally the wrong question! I want to ask it this way. See my comment.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2

Aspergirl4hire

Mage, Sage, Revolutionary
As human beings, we seem to be born to love, and for love, and to spend much of our lives wondering why we don't have it, or have it unrequited, or why we're the object of it, or why it works with family but not lovers, and so on.

The love on which our lives initially depend is Mom's: maternal love, which I'll expand as filial love. The love promised a spiritual believer and among friends, if I recall correctly, is agapetic. Sexual love is erotic.

I wonder if we need all three kinds of love because we're humans, and as the aspie sort, we have a fourth we need, awkwardly named Special Interest. It doesn't seem to convey the passion that we typically find when we're tuned to our own engines--a word that shares its root with "genius."

Genius doesn't just mean an IQ score. It's that thing you do. You know the one. You're weirdly good at it, and everybody knows it. It may be a "little" thing, but what you do with it is just faster, smoother, or better than what others do.

As aspies, we seem to be well-wired for this fourth type of love, from which a lot of innovation and drive come. We can love things--both physical and virtual, tangible and ideal. This seems to confuse some of our NT family, friends, or partners. As a result, we aspies seem to have problems getting our minimum daily requirements met from the other kinds. We spend a lot of time trying to get the four loves right, in a sustainable way.

What are you doing now to get the right loves you need to work in your life?
 
Thank you for such an insightful post! What a pleasant reminder of the joy and fulfillment our special interests bring. We are born, we seek purpose and love, and we pass from this world. We who are challenged both in trying to meet the neurotypical model of success and in maintaining relationships, are beyond fortunate to have our special interests. When passions meet our strengths, a way-- even a quiet, gentle way-- to contribute to the greater good can manifest.:sunflower:
 
Filial - Doing stuff for my husband and kid. Talking with my mom as she drives home from work. Going to family dinners on the holidays.
Agapetic - Kinda neglected right now, but more connected to Genius.
Erotic - Well, I'm married.
Genius - I draw. Sometimes I write. From time to time I'll get sucked into a book or series. I have a few other crafts and hobbies I indulge.

Main ones I need are Filial and Genius. Apagetic and Erotic are just potential side-effects for me. :yum:
 
In the aftermath of the single most destructive romantic relationship I've ever experienced, I have spent the last year or so in a state of internal reassessment, reorganization and rebuilding. Not only have I been actively evaluating the interplay between a somewhat longer list of loves (including some from John Lee and others, extrapolated beyond romantic situations) and my own sense of contentment, but I've also been exploring how they overlap and interact with each other at various levels and across the people and things I love.

My own list: Agape, Philautia, Phrenic, Storge, Philia, Pragma, Ludus, Eros and Mania.

It was quite a breakthrough when it hit home that almost any of these can relate to anything or anyone. It has helped me understand exactly how over-emphasis on one in one place can be detrimental to others, in that same place or in another.

The one for which I most needed a reminder was Philautia, or self-love/self-respect, which is absolutely essential to keeping love of anything external in healthy balance.

Since you highlighted special interests, note that I class them first under Phrenic (aka Intellectual) love.
 
Well, this is an old thread that didn't get many responses. Wonder why.

I initially thought that I need two specific loves, agapetic and special interest, those seem to come with the fewest downsides, as well as more stability, change tends to be on one's own terms.

The other two. I'm not so sure about. Erotic love, I'm ready to let go of. It has been a source of pain, confusion, hopeless longing and delusion for far too long. And there has never been much of a payoff. Filial love is one that I am learning about day to day. I have a 11 year old and not having been modeled loving behavior by my parents, it has been difficult for me to express it, but I certainly feel it every day. I hope that my efforts will be enough to assure him that he is loved.
 
I miss Aspergirl4hire.

I need Special Interest and am pretty sure I need a little bit of filial but certainly not in the same sense as most NT's. I have needed erotic, but it is far less important than the first two.

On the Inside Since you are making efforts, then he does and will continue to feel love. It is ignoring that kills love, more than anything else.
 
This discussion left out the very important "phileo" love ... friendship. I must have both phileo love and special interest to be content. For happiness, I'd add passionate or erotic love. However, eros love cannot make me happy by itself. It must be always accompanied by the other two, or else my emotional needs will not be met.

Having said that, I suppose I require a certain amount of familial love, too, that I need to express to my cats.
 
There should perhaps be another type of love: the kind one has to use with (bright, big-hearted but arrogant) teenage sons. Not sure what to name it.
 
Special Interest love. I like that a lot. I was just having a conversation with someone who considers the expression and pursuit of romantic love to be the most important and essential experience of their life. And I was like you know, I have something like that too but, it's not romantic or sexual, nor is it directed towards other humans, but it's still love.

I would say that the love of friends is equally important, although it tends to be more subtle. Have no need or want for sexual love. Familial love is something I would like to have eventually, in the form of a living partner and/or animals, but I don't feel capable of such things at the moment.
 
As human beings, we seem to be born to love, and for love, and to spend much of our lives wondering why we don't have it, or have it unrequited, or why we're the object of it, or why it works with family but not lovers, and so on.

The love on which our lives initially depend is Mom's: maternal love, which I'll expand as filial love. The love promised a spiritual believer and among friends, if I recall correctly, is agapetic. Sexual love is erotic.

I wonder if we need all three kinds of love because we're humans, and as the aspie sort, we have a fourth we need, awkwardly named Special Interest. It doesn't seem to convey the passion that we typically find when we're tuned to our own engines--a word that shares its root with "genius."

Genius doesn't just mean an IQ score. It's that thing you do. You know the one. You're weirdly good at it, and everybody knows it. It may be a "little" thing, but what you do with it is just faster, smoother, or better than what others do.

As aspies, we seem to be well-wired for this fourth type of love, from which a lot of innovation and drive come. We can love things--both physical and virtual, tangible and ideal. This seems to confuse some of our NT family, friends, or partners. As a result, we aspies seem to have problems getting our minimum daily requirements met from the other kinds. We spend a lot of time trying to get the four loves right, in a sustainable way.

What are you doing now to get the right loves you need to work in your life?

I like how you start off trying to define the separate types of love. That's a good perspective and I'd like to share my thoughts starting the same way. We must look to history to see if, first, there has been either a destruction of love or a construction of love. Have we added to, changed or taken away from the meaning of "love?" One of the oldest languages (and by far the most brilliant and beautiful) is ancient Hebrew. Hebrew uses the words:
Ahava - to have affection, sexually or otherwise, love, like, to befriend, to be intimate
This word is connected directly with action and obedience. Unlike our English equivilant it holds more value in commitment and dedication to morality.
Ahab - spontaneous, impulsive love
Hesed - deliberate choice of affection and kindness
Raham - to have compassion, brotherly love

Much like the more simpler times Hebrew was most common, this can be broken into three styles of love: impulsive, deliberate and broad/compassionate. Instead of focusing on the item upon which the love is directed, it instead defines love differently based on how intentional or deep the meaning is. There was never any such word to refer to affection towards an inanimate object or event outside of idolatry which was more a taboo for its inhumanity than for its blasphemy. Love is a special affection that you give to another human, so giving it to a thing will inhumanly disconnect you from contributing to society and your heart will not attach to the hearts of others like it should. Something to contemplate.

Note that all definitions of Love in Hebrew were widely considered as verbs and the hebrew letters that make them up often contain the meaning "to give." Love was not a feeling, it was an act and for it to be natural, there had to be a human on the other end.

Also note that in studying Hebrew, their words were alphabetically arranged by meaning! If you look in the English dictionary, two words in alphabetical order could have dramatically different uses or meanings. That isn't so in Hebrew! This is why I say it is a brilliant language. If you were to go through the definitions arranged by alphabetical order of the words you will see that alphabetically arranged words had similar proximity in meaning as well. That being said: look at how close in sound the first two are (suxual, intimate love and spontanious love) and how far they are from deliberate love and brotherly love. This is because Raham is more of a deep rooted, long lasting love that happens naturally as opposed to your crush that you spotted across the classroom.

Greek is where we often get our most common breakdown of the word as it is often a religious staple. The Greek were the people who far exceeded any other culture or era in intellectual awakening and gave us most of our greatest minds such as Pythagoras and Plato. The Greek language uses:
Eros - sensual, sexual, impulsive
(Plato defined this love as aspiring for and delighting in the value of its object; loving that which is lovable.)
and despite what may be commonly known, it is not used in the Bible.

Philia (phileos)- love for friend, spouse, children
Commonly known as "family love" or "brotherly affection" or "friendship"
Agape - God's love
This is reserved for the love that God has for His son and His people and to my knowledge, isn't something we as humans can give. This is more or less a religious exclusive term and was rarely ever seen in secular texts.
Storge - natural affection
Uncommonly know as "family love" and used for a wider range of family, friends and even pets. It can be common to Hebrew Raham which is also more of the naturally occuring love for friends and less spontaneous.

There was no concept of love for interests in the way your posts suggests. The only time we really get much from that is dealing with philosophy dedicated to the love of inanimate objects and worldly values such as money. Really until the major Catholic formations in the 4th century, these references to love for inanimate concepts were always regarded as bad. In spirit of the argument, it was bad because it's effectively putting something like money or idols in place where people should be. It shouldn't be confused with the argument that is exclusive to replacing God. No, even for the non-believers it is important to note the dangers of loving that which cannot receive it because it replaces people, not God. In fact, almost all forms of love coming from a human is actually directed towards another human; the term of affection from human to God is worship, completely different.

In the English language we use love more for inanimate concepts than we do for people! This is bad. In its origins, love was used as "to give love" and never had any use for describing "enjoying a cup of coffee" because you couldn't give love to coffee. We have substituted an action for a feeling which interprets as we have substituted giving for receiving. Whereas love used to be defined as something you gave; we now refer to it as something we feel after being given something by someone else. You love a person who spends time with you and is affectionate to you. You feel like you are "in love" when you are with someone. It is rooted in a receiving verb, as a reactionary state of heart, not an actionary state of doing. This is also bad.

continued...
 
...continued

To address the "forth love" you refer to as our engines, that special thing you do as an aspie: I don't think that is even in the same field as what "love" is intended to mean. That's like saying "I like my coffee with sugar, cream, cinnamon and roast beef." That special thing that makes us who we are is a root of talent and personality whereas love is an action of giving affection to someone who can actually receive it. Another concept we have taken for granted is personality because it isn't something that everyone has by default. Kazimierz Dąbrowski was a Polish psychologist who did some highly underrated work to explain the concept of personality and it's existence in the psychosis mind.

To summarize his Theory of Positive Disintegration: Those who hold a psychosis such as autism or schizophrenia are pushed by society to pick up their slack and be more functional whereas those without a psychosis are allowed to exist without harsh examination of stability. Those with psychosis posed an interest to Dabrowski because they showed inherent potential to be geniuses (like you say) which meant they were drawn unnaturally to certain concepts and thoughts more than normal people. Often one with a psychosis was inhumanly good at one thing while bad at others. When combining their natural imbalances of ability with the social pressure for self improvement focusing on their disabilities, Dabrowski determined that these people were able to create a true personality. He surmised that personality had to be cultivated with both interest and effort and since normal people had no drive to be psychologically better and their interests were solely based on popularity (by definition, opposing to uniqueness) that normal people often never achieve a personality.


That being said, that special quality we tend to have, our quirky nature and uniqueness is not best defined as a "love" but instead as actually a personality. The reason why we have a hard time realizing this is because we are falsely led to believe that everyone has a personality. People who are blindly following whatever they are told to, going after what's popular because "it will make you happy" will often never get a personality because they are carbon copies.

In essence this can be re-tooled to be utilized in choosing a mate or friend based on who they are and what they look like. My personal philosophy is "If I cannot pick the person out of a large group, I have no interest." I could look at a picture of "friends" under the unpopular title of stereotypical and point out how they all look exactly alike. In contrast, I like people who stand out and are one-of-a-kind because this shows personality almost down to the uniqueness in physical features. It is rooted in this (highly summarized) observation that I can say our "standards of beauty" is inversely correlated to "inner beauty." That does not, however, justify unhealthy behavior such as gluttony or sloth. What it does mean is that we have potential to be wondrous beings of flavor and color and uniqueness because we have personality.

To answer the last question in your OP: To get the correct "loves" in my life I strive to understand what love is and what it isn't. I don't seek to "get love" I seek to "give love."
 
...continued

To address the "forth love" you refer to as our engines, that special thing you do as an aspie: I don't think that is even in the same field as what "love" is intended to mean. That's like saying "I like my coffee with sugar, cream, cinnamon and roast beef." That special thing that makes us who we are is a root of talent and personality whereas love is an action of giving affection to someone who can actually receive it. Another concept we have taken for granted is personality because it isn't something that everyone has by default. Kazimierz Dąbrowski was a Polish psychologist who did some highly underrated work to explain the concept of personality and it's existence in the psychosis mind.

To summarize his Theory of Positive Disintegration: Those who hold a psychosis such as autism or schizophrenia are pushed by society to pick up their slack and be more functional whereas those without a psychosis are allowed to exist without harsh examination of stability. Those with psychosis posed an interest to Dabrowski because they showed inherent potential to be geniuses (like you say) which meant they were drawn unnaturally to certain concepts and thoughts more than normal people. Often one with a psychosis was inhumanly good at one thing while bad at others. When combining their natural imbalances of ability with the social pressure for self improvement focusing on their disabilities, Dabrowski determined that these people were able to create a true personality. He surmised that personality had to be cultivated with both interest and effort and since normal people had no drive to be psychologically better and their interests were solely based on popularity (by definition, opposing to uniqueness) that normal people often never achieve a personality.


That being said, that special quality we tend to have, our quirky nature and uniqueness is not best defined as a "love" but instead as actually a personality. The reason why we have a hard time realizing this is because we are falsely led to believe that everyone has a personality. People who are blindly following whatever they are told to, going after what's popular because "it will make you happy" will often never get a personality because they are carbon copies.

In essence this can be re-tooled to be utilized in choosing a mate or friend based on who they are and what they look like. My personal philosophy is "If I cannot pick the person out of a large group, I have no interest." I could look at a picture of "friends" under the unpopular title of stereotypical and point out how they all look exactly alike. In contrast, I like people who stand out and are one-of-a-kind because this shows personality almost down to the uniqueness in physical features. It is rooted in this (highly summarized) observation that I can say our "standards of beauty" is inversely correlated to "inner beauty." That does not, however, justify unhealthy behavior such as gluttony or sloth. What it does mean is that we have potential to be wondrous beings of flavor and color and uniqueness because we have personality.

To answer the last question in your OP: To get the correct "loves" in my life I strive to understand what love is and what it isn't. I don't seek to "get love" I seek to "give love."

Thanks for the reference. I've done a bit of reading on Dąbrowski’s work and with regard to his idea that "well socialised" people lack a true personality do you think it's possible for neurotypical individuals (with a strong desire to fit-in) to develop a genuine personality as per his concept of disintegration & vertical development? I would guess that a psychopath would probably have no chance at all.
Just interested in your thoughts.
 
Thanks for the reference. I've done a bit of reading on Dąbrowski’s work and with regard to his idea that "well socialised" people lack a true personality do you think it's possible for neurotypical individuals (with a strong desire to fit-in) to develop a genuine personality as per his concept of disintegration & vertical development? I would guess that a psychopath would probably have no chance at all.
Just interested in your thoughts.

I believe both neurotypicals and neuroatypicals both have a chance. But consider some of my other posts on various threads where I breakdown variable lists such as geography, culture, interests, physical health etc. So many factors can play into it that I'd say that simply one's psychosis or lack of cannot fully govern one's ability to develop a personality. We may say that each person's life includes 100 factors (each worth 1%) that will determine an outcome in percentage of a good personality. Psychosis may only be one of them, worth at max 1%. Autism may be worth a float value of .8% whereas an NT may only have .1% chance. You may say that aspies then are more likely than NTs but that would hardly include the rest of their life experience. A person's upbringing does much for their development and you can say that a balanced, loving household full of attentive care will give a full 1% value whereas a household where the dad left when you were a kid to make a better family with someone else leaving your mom to bust her butt to provide for you and your sister while trying to find a boyfriend and eventually stating "I don't need a man," this situation will provide a .01% chance. Though it offers low chance of producing a good personality, it isn't nearly enough to make any case hopeless. Each individual facet only holds an isolated fraction that may only total up to be a small percentage in the overall equation. Any one large influence can always be bolstered or countered by the numerous other influences.

This being said: Aspies by nature have a good chance of developing a personality but if they were raised poorly and hang out with the wrong people and watch too much porn and follow whatever facebook tells them... their once good chance of being special and amazing will be pulled back down with mediocrity. Same thing; an NT may inherently be set up for an easy, unchallenging life but an exterior circumstance may force them to wake up and see the world for the sham it is, pushing them to be unique among their carbon copy friends.

Note that when people say "human factor" to represent that spark of chaos that makes us unpredictable it's only because they have average math IQs and look on such a factor as "too complicated to figure out" but that doesn't mean others can't understand it. Everything can be predicted given the size of the computer doing the calculation and the human mind can be capable of some amazing things. "Everything is arranged according to number and mathematical shape." -Pythagoras

I haven't found any one factor, genetic or exterior (which includes race and religion) that will keep a person or guarantee a person will be great. I've seen people given all they need to succeed but their inner hatred was enough to waste all their potential. I've seen people given nothing but pain and hell all their life and they rise up and make something of themselves. It's not random, it's just a math equation that could melt a mind to mush.

This formulaic view of potential in all people is also the key to abolish racism and religious hatred. The reasoning people use to condemn an entire race or an entire religion or an entire region is an incomplete reasoning that only looks at a fraction of what makes a person turn out good or bad. Not that stereotypes aren't a real thing, but once you start assigning a 100% belief based on a 35% chance, you become wrong. And acting on such wrong behavior is a moral crime.
 

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