The heart of AS

[Ylva]

I keep wondering if our condition isn't "just" sensory issues, and all the rest is a by-product of people treating us differently. People treating us differently could easily be a direct result of us reacting differently than they expect. According to studies, apparently everyone takes their expectations dead seriously, not just us; so when someone or something isn't as people expect (such as responses to sharp sounds that may not sound very sharp to others) it pisses them off, if they lack maturity. Add to this that immaturity seems to be the norm, or at least one norm ? clearly people adjust their masks, depending on the situation ? and the world at large is not going to be pleasant for anyone with an ounce of actual sensitivity.

 

[pjcnet]

An interesting argument, I agree that this can be partly true, but there are also various aspects of AS and autistic spectrum disorders that are unrelated to how we are treated by other people as well.

 

[Ylva]

My point was: we have sensory issues, which cause us to behave in ways which are considered weird, which in turn makes people treat us as weirdos, which makes us behave even weirder.

Sensory issues seem to be at the heart of it for me, anyway.

 

[Aalo]

It is an interesting thought. I haven't been really able to tell if I'm withdrawn because of my dislike of people, which can also be because of how they react to my ways of acting - or to just that they don't interest me much, which has nothing to do with physical, but intellectual stimuli. Or which one of those reasons might be stronger.

One underlying feeling I believe many of us has, is not to let anyone else be bothered on how we handle situations and that's our way protecting ourselves from them. Of course it can be humiliating to be seen being in pain about something supposedly unobvious, but in case something like that happens, it'll not physically harm us and in a way shouldn't be a cause to act any more odd. We don't panic and flee or start making all the excuses because of sensory issues. But are these just coping methods, and not the reasons in the first place.
Nevertheless, they feel odd for others.

 

[Athena]

If you could seperate me and my autism, there wouldn't be much left I think. My autism is ingrained in anything I do and think. Sensory input is a big part of it, yes. But even if I didn't have my problems with sensory input, I'd still think very differently than people without autism (I believe you call them NT's). I always think about everything and rarely a moment goes by that I'm not thinking (well, unless I'm asleep maybe). I'm always thinking (it's quite tiring). Uncertainties are hard for me to deal with. There are other traits I also have. In social situations, I analyse everything that happens. I have to tell myself to look most people in the eye, because if I don't, I'll look at the wall instead. I have to actively think about where to look and what to say. What is appropriate to say, what isn't (in a certain situation), what is relevant, interesting, etc. I've learned a lot over the years but it still takes energy and effort (how much depends on how well I know the person and how well they know me, how well I can anticipate their reaction etc). Sensory problems are my main problem, but they're not all there is to it.

 

[pjcnet]

My point was: we have sensory issues, which cause us to behave in ways which are considered weird, which in turn makes people treat us as weirdos, which makes us behave even weirder.

Sensory issues seem to be at the heart of it for me, anyway.

Thanks, I think I understand your point a bit better now. Well yes, some people, especially people that don't understand us can treat us differently and it can be in a negative way, especially if we annoy or offend them with our traits (it normally happened with myself without me even knowing), but sometimes even people that do somewhat understand will treat us differently without even realising it. Sometimes the way we can be treated different isn't always relevant to our condition either, E.g. some people without any understanding may think that we are simply dim or backward and could treat us as such when this obviously is far from the truth. As a child I've even been called "Walter" repeatedly by other children after they'd watched a late 1970s TV drama (UK) about a disabled boy with extremely severe learning difficulties that were far beyond Asperger Syndrome or high functioning autism, they basically believed I was extremely backward and stupid. Little did they know that most children and adults with Asperger Syndrome are actually very intelligent, but often only in their special obsessive subject, I for instance got a grade A at "A" level Computer Science with one of the highest percentages scored in my course work ever (the examining board even queried it and had to take it away to check it again to confirm I that did deserve such a high score of 98%), but I failed everything else. People who treat us as "weirdos" are usually people who totally lack any understanding or worse sometimes spiteful people who would rather laugh or take advantage of other people's disabilities instead of even wanting to understand.

Now do I actually act worse when people treat me as a "weido" (well I prefer the word "eccentric")? Well I don't think so personally as an adult unless it makes me stressed when my traits really show, however this was probably more the case when I was younger and at school. My family insisted on sending me to a normal school against the advice of experts where I was severely bullied and other pupils would make fun out of me, yes it would make me even worse, especially since it often made me severely stressed. For myself it was partly caused by sensory issues, but there is a lot more aspects of Asperger syndrome that aren't sensory related too. I had so many problems at school that at comprehensive school (senior school in the UK) the teachers and heads eventually suspended me stating that the reason isn't my fault, but instead because the staff just don't have the training or expertise to cope with my condition, strongly suggesting that I should be sent to a special school instead. My family however fought it to get me reinstated successfully on more than one occasion and to cut a very long story short I struggled through school having an awful time. I however may never have got the qualifications and opportunities if I'd been sent to a special school and that was my parents reasons when I asked them as an adult why they did it. Also if I was sent to a special school I may have actually have become worse due to the way I would have been treated there with lots of other special children around me. At a special school it would have been more acceptable to have Asperger symptoms and I may never have been forced so much to attempt to override them as much as I manage to now as an adult, plus I would probably have picked up other unusual behaviour from other children around me and much of that would be sensory related.

 

[pjcnet]

I made a slight mistake above which I can't correct because of the 15 minute editing rule (when I write I have to read and correct, then read and correct repeatedly to get things right, so I wish the 15 minute rule was extended or didn't exist at all), anyway the movie drama "Walter" which I referred to was about a young man (not really a boy as stated above) and it was made in 1982 (it was based on a novel from the late 1970s). In fact it was Channel 4's first ever in house produced movie (Channel 4 is a very successful TV channel that started broadcasting in 1982 on the UK's analogue terrestrial network, well before cable or satellite TV existed in the UK, they've made masses of feature length dramas and movies since, many are hard hitting / controversial and have won awards).

PS: Channel 4 is still going strong as a digital TV channel in the UK (analogue TV has now been turned off) and they also have various sister channels including Film 4, E4, More 4 and a catch up channel named 4 Seven along with a full online demand service name 4OD (4 on demand). If it wasn't for the success of the controversial movie "Walter", Channel 4 may have never pursued making their own unique feature length dramas and movies which has made them what they have become today.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I keep wondering if our condition isn't "just" sensory issues, and all the rest is a by-product of people treating us differently. People treating us differently could easily be a direct result of us reacting differently than they expect...Sensory issues seem to be at the heart of it for me, anyway.

I know what you're trying to say, but, for me obsessions are the most powerful part of my AS.

 

[total-recoil]

Deep question. There are some aspects of aspergers that do seem to indicate actual personality defect or disorder. In my case, I would say the sudden anger I experience over noise, occasional nervousness or frustration as well as temper tantrums would all point to unusual behaviour. However, I agree with you that a very great part of our symptoms would be the product of social intergration issues from the outset. If you are never fully connected to the people around you, you are going to develop differently, with less awareness of group perception and issues that relate to group mentality. I'm well aware now that the way I act definitely confuses other people and most of the time I haven't a clue what it is I did or said wrong. By the same token, this also allows me to think far more independently and not be simply persuaded of some truth or perception purely on the basis the majority accepts it as a given.
I concluded we are different from the outset (from infancy) and this in itself then creates a complex cycle whereby we are somehow allowed to age and develop far more apart and independently.

I keep wondering if our condition isn't "just" sensory issues, and all the rest is a by-product of people treating us differently. People treating us differently could easily be a direct result of us reacting differently than they expect. According to studies, apparently everyone takes their expectations dead seriously, not just us; so when someone or something isn't as people expect (such as responses to sharp sounds that may not sound very sharp to others) it pisses them off, if they lack maturity. Add to this that immaturity seems to be the norm, or at least one norm – clearly people adjust their masks, depending on the situation – and the world at large is not going to be pleasant for anyone with an ounce of actual sensitivity.

 

[Ylva]

I know what you're trying to say, but, for me obsessions are the most powerful part of my AS.

What is at the root of your obsessions?

Deep question. There are some aspects of aspergers that do seem to indicate actual personality defect or disorder. In my case, I would say the sudden anger I experience over noise, occasional nervousness or frustration as well as temper tantrums would all point to unusual behaviour. However, I agree with you that a very great part of our symptoms would be the product of social intergration issues from the outset. If you are never fully connected to the people around you, you are going to develop differently, with less awareness of group perception and issues that relate to group mentality. I'm well aware now that the way I act definitely confuses other people and most of the time I haven't a clue what it is I did or said wrong. By the same token, this also allows me to think far more independently and not be simply persuaded of some truth or perception purely on the basis the majority accepts it as a given.
I concluded we are different from the outset (from infancy) and this in itself then creates a complex cycle whereby we are somehow allowed to age and develop far more apart and independently.

I think even that could be explained with sensory issues. My understanding is that emotional reactions are largely a matter of conditioning. Of course, it is likely even deeper than that; maybe the reason we have sensory issues in the first place is that we are wired differently, and I do not deny that we are. I read somewhere that we have a greater percentage of Cro Magnon genes than the general population. I think it's cool.

However, I can identify much of my failed social conditioning as a result of my sensory issues. For instance, I would never respond to scoldings in the way my siblings did, because when someone yells at me all I can hear is an incredibly loud noise. I never got why hugging was considered an act of friendliness – it was so uncomfortable, why would friends want to do that to each other?

I would agree that we are different from the outset.

 

[Mark_D]

Sensory issues have definitely caused problems for me. Focusing on someone talking to me while other conversations are going on nearby, inability to disregard things like music, TV, or conversations while trying to do something like read or study. I'm not much ppedhelp at Christmas shopping because the people, lights, sound, etc. freak me out.

I have the problem with incessant thinking. It makes driving an adventure,for sure. I constantly miss turns, forget to change lanes, and sometimes I'm only snapped back to reality when brake lights come on in front of me. My delayed processing causes me to react slowly and I've had many scares because of this.

You're right, though, that many of our social problems likely stem from sensory issues. We avoid situations that are normal social interactions for NTs. It doesn't do much for acceptance among our peers.

 

[wyverary]

I keep wondering if our condition isn't "just" sensory issues, and all the rest is a by-product of people treating us differently. People treating us differently could easily be a direct result of us reacting differently than they expect. According to studies, apparently everyone takes their expectations dead seriously, not just us; so when someone or something isn't as people expect (such as responses to sharp sounds that may not sound very sharp to others) it pisses them off, if they lack maturity. Add to this that immaturity seems to be the norm, or at least one norm – clearly people adjust their masks, depending on the situation – and the world at large is not going to be pleasant for anyone with an ounce of actual sensitivity.

My interpretation of this thread is the age-old "Nature vs. Nurture"false dichotomy. There are biological underpinnings to ASDs, which combine with environmental factors to shape us as human beings.

So my response is an emphatic "Of course!"

 

[Ste11aeres]

What is at the root of your obsessions?

I used to have really strong sensory issues. They are milder now. (Having a build up of ear wax is helping. A doctor could remove it, but no way is that happening. ) I don't know how to answer the question about what is at the root of my obsessions. It's just the way I am. Do you mean what are my obsessions about?

 

[Ylva]

Yes, or just what causes them.

Mine seem to tie back to some early or at least identifiable (if not single) memory, such as: my obsession with languages seems to stem from lifelong experiences with communication failure, or my obsession with (or love for) books from my parents reading to me when I was little, and that was when I felt close to them.

 

[Aalo]

It's a delicate mixture and I can't stop thinking about how much my interests have influence on my persona and are therefore leading my actions.
When I was a kid I had peculiar interests, which obviously one of the reasons I was so alone. Yes, I might have been alone partly because of sensory problems too. But. I then needed to learn to like myself on behalf of everyone else. By any means I'm no egotistical in a way I'd want to hurt or use anyone, but as nearly none has ever held their trust or interest in me, I've grew to have overly strong sense of self and self appreciation that could be seen as unhealthy. I see that as really big part on how I act in everyday situations.

I think that sensory problems have their biggest impact when I'm sociable. not when I'm alone. Because I know in advance, and at some level hold constant fear over it, that I can't handle too many extraneous constituent at once so I prefer keeping on my own. Noises and such can be manageable if I similarly don't have to handle people around me - playing it cool, telling them anything. I wonder if my senses are the problem or just really restrictive component.
But I've never felt as vulnerable as when having strong reactions for something outside my body. Also being unable to simultaneously handle all perceptions is what drags me off my inner thoughts, where I'd feel most comfortable at. Reacting to our senses is after all the reason why we need to interact with anything outside our bodies. But in most cases I wouldn't like to do that at all even if I was having a set of normal signal render.

 

[Loomis]

Sensory issues are not a large part of my autism and rarely affect my behavior. My sensory button is primarily aversion to loud noises.

I was initially a very outgoing child but learned people did not react to me positively. I was clueless why but massive negative feedback led me to become more introverted. It was not until last year, after my diagnosis, that I began to understand myself.

In a nutshell, I have low empathy and low interest in people's behavior. Consequently I never learned nor was very interested in cultivating friendships. This combination of low empathy, lack of social interest and atypical brain circuitry doomed my early social endeavors to failure. Add anxiety attributable to confusion, disappointment and a dysfunctional amygdala to arrive at the heart of my aspie problems:

I am anxious often, do not communicate with people well and often misinterpret social cues. I do not believe these problems are directly related to my sensory issues.

 

[Ylva]

On the bit about low empathy… Is it just a matter of not feeling sorry for people if they get a paper cut or suffer a minor disappointment? Because that's all I get from analysing my own empathic behaviour.

People don't communicate directly, so how they expect each other to understand them is beyond me.

 

[Loomis]

I used to have really strong sensory issues. They are milder now. (Having a build up of ear wax is helping. A doctor could remove it, but no way is that happening. )

That is really funny but I get it. I have a moderate hearing loss. I bought a hearing aid but I never wear it for the same reason. The world is a quieter place without my hearing aid!

 

[Mark_D]

I am sure that my sensory issues have caused my other problems. From birth I had problems. If I had been born a long time ago I probably would have starved to death if I weren't left to die because I was defective. I couldn't stand to be held by my mother and wouldn't breast feed. My mother said I threw screaming fits when she picked me up (sensory overload) then would cry to be held because I needed closeness. That's messed up, right?

I ended up having severe issues with women and intimacy. In addition, I've always had sensory issues that kept me from doing 'normal' things like being in a group larger than about 4 people without getting severely stressed. I was also convinced that I would be rejected which is obviously a reaction to my mother's avoidance of me as an infant. She couldn't deal with my behavior right from the beginning. That's me in a nutshell, I think. That's why I believe our problems stem from sensory issues.

 

[Ylva]

She could have sat by the crib and stroked your hair, used soft touches instead of putting your whole weight on an area no bigger than her hands. Can I recommend "Trauma and Recovery" by Judith Herman? Helped me quite a lot.