The truth about Aspergers?

[onlything]

Hi there Community.

I've just read some rather interesting 'resource' and, while I can see the point of all the people involved, I... well, can't help but feel hurt. It's not every day you're reminded that you're a heartless robot.

A warning: it's not a kind portrayal of AS.

Heartless Aspergers

Just wanted to hear your opinions. It's the first time I really met such a wall of resistance concerning the AS and it caught me completely off guard. Hurtful, even if true in many instances.

I can understand that our lack of understanding of social clues and recognising human emotions just by non-verbal language may cause frustration, in many cases even worse. Self-doubt, leading to low self-esteem, anxiety about another 'rude' thing that we simply didn't intend as rude, depression about not being good enough. I can see both sides.

Though to me it looks like the people there didn't even try to consider our perspective. Is sending mixed signals that we don't understand really that severe? The misunderstandings and hurt? I know many instances where people seemed hurt by what I did or said - but why can't they even try to let me know why? To let me try to understand? To consider our point of view? Like one of the ex-wives of AS male described us, I can describe NT: talking to neurotypicals is often like hitting your head on a wall. They talk about us not understanding but to me, it seems slightly hypocritical.

The thing is, ASD is a spectrum. AS is a spectrum. We are thinking in the same way but we have different personalities, different objectives, different interests. I don't like all the generalisation that happens here. Looks like I'm 'mindblind'.

Talking about being mindblind, let me show you this little guy:

'Now I realize that there must be many many exhausted, isolated, deeply sad women out there trying to cope with a very difficult situation alone, because so few understand. My husband is a beautiful, gentle, intelligent individual but this does not prevent my suffering. Denying one’s self and sacrificing all basic emotional needs every single day, giving up the most important personal desires bit by bit as the years go by, is so damaging. I wish support was better organised for partners of Asperger’s… It is enough to make one crazy and there is no help around.'

I've been doing it every single day for as long as I can remember. Because the Me is considered weird. Creepy. A freak. A robot. And yes, I can tell you that it's damaging. There is no acceptance, so you emulate - you emulate other people to become what they expect for so long that you forget who you really are. You just are what they want you to be. Yes, it is damaging and this is why so many of AS people have depression.

One thing to NTs: If a person that has an AS is a jerk, maybe it's not the AS that is the reason. Maybe they're simply a jerk.



I did not intend to be rude to anyone while writing this. I did not intend to hurt anyone. I simply wanted to show my point of view and see the point of view of others, both NT and AS(D).

Just for the clarification.

 

[Anonymous]

I think they kind of switched who was who in their article, as well as getting a multitude of facts wrong, a relationship with anyone, Aspergers or not, requires both parties involved to understand the needs of the other. And aspires may seem unepathetic, but I find that we understand a lot more than we let on, as not showing emotions through nonverbal communications is a common part if us.

 

[Fitzo]

I couldn't read the whole article because it sounded to me more like someone with a personality disorder rather than AS. As someone who was brought up by a narcissist and had a relationship with one I know I have a thousand times more empathy than they do!
These generalisations are very tedious!

 

[tree]

Another one of those "looks almost professional" sites that
unhappy people like to create in an attempt to get even for
disappointment and misunderstanding in their personal lives.


"About the author: I had a year-long relationship with a man who did not disclose his diagnosis of Asperger’s Syndrome. I also had a female friend with the disorder who chose not to tell me."
ABOUT THIS SITE

 

[The Midge]

I think the author has bought into the Absent Self Theory that suggests that Auties don't have a real sense of self. They fails to realise that we do have feelings even though we struggle to express and deal with them. Such articles trample all over the autie sense of self with hobnail boots on.

 

[wight]

This site, and the ones in the other threads have one thing in common. They are written by non-professionals, that had bad relationships, with very maladapted partners. They are making the very common error of applying the specific to the general. There is even a name for this, inductive fallacy.

 

[mw2530]

Denying one’s self and sacrificing all basic emotional needs every single day, giving up the most important personal desires bit by bit as the years go by, is so damaging.

This sounds like something I do many days just in order to function in society and to perform my job in order to support my self and survive.

 

[Dadwith2Autisticsons]

Hi there Community.

I've just read some rather interesting 'resource' and, while I can see the point of all the people involved, I... well, can't help but feel hurt. It's not every day you're reminded that you're a heartless robot.

A warning: it's not a kind portrayal of AS.

Heartless Aspergers

Just wanted to hear your opinions. It's the first time I really met such a wall of resistance concerning the AS and it caught me completely off guard. Hurtful, even if true in many instances.

I can understand that our lack of understanding of social clues and recognising human emotions just by non-verbal language may cause frustration, in many cases even worse. Self-doubt, leading to low self-esteem, anxiety about another 'rude' thing that we simply didn't intend as rude, depression about not being good enough. I can see both sides.

Though to me it looks like the people there didn't even try to consider our perspective. Is sending mixed signals that we don't understand really that severe? The misunderstandings and hurt? I know many instances where people seemed hurt by what I did or said - but why can't they even try to let me know why? To let me try to understand? To consider our point of view? Like one of the ex-wives of AS male described us, I can describe NT: talking to neurotypicals is often like hitting your head on a wall. They talk about us not understanding but to me, it seems slightly hypocritical.

The thing is, ASD is a spectrum. AS is a spectrum. We are thinking in the same way but we have different personalities, different objectives, different interests. I don't like all the generalisation that happens here. Looks like I'm 'mindblind'.

Talking about being mindblind, let me show you this little guy:

'Now I realize that there must be many many exhausted, isolated, deeply sad women out there trying to cope with a very difficult situation alone, because so few understand. My husband is a beautiful, gentle, intelligent individual but this does not prevent my suffering. Denying one’s self and sacrificing all basic emotional needs every single day, giving up the most important personal desires bit by bit as the years go by, is so damaging. I wish support was better organised for partners of Asperger’s… It is enough to make one crazy and there is no help around.'

I've been doing it every single day for as long as I can remember. Because the Me is considered weird. Creepy. A freak. A robot. And yes, I can tell you that it's damaging. There is no acceptance, so you emulate - you emulate other people to become what they expect for so long that you forget who you really are. You just are what they want you to be. Yes, it is damaging and this is why so many of AS people have depression.

One thing to NTs: If a person that has an AS is a jerk, maybe it's not the AS that is the reason. Maybe they're simply a jerk.



I did not intend to be rude to anyone while writing this. I did not intend to hurt anyone. I simply wanted to show my point of view and see the point of view of others, both NT and AS(D).

Just for the clarification.

As someone who does not think he has ASD, but Social Anxiety Disorder combined with OCD, but who has two ASD children, but who cannot totally rule out I could have higher functioning ASD, many here would nevertheless consider me an NT without medical diagnosis, despite severe lifelong social and other dysfunction. Regardless, what I have, I will tell the truth as I see it. And although some points she made were valid, she lost all credibility because of the following six things:

(1) As she is a medical professional, she should never generalize like that, and create a website suggesting or stating all with Aspergers are like that, as all are not, as each with Aspergers or ASD will have differing abilities, strengths, limitations and interests, and stress tolerance levels, and abilities to learn and adapt in some ways. You would think a psychologist would understand that each on the Spectrum can be different.

(2) The psychologist showed lack of empathy herself. Although from the surface it looks like she was putting herself in the shoes of the spouse, children, parents, friends and siblings, and understanding there, but that may not really show empathy, as if she were really empathetic she would not be so one-sided in her website, and she would show care, concern and compassion for those on the Spectrum as well, and again she would not have generalized about ASDers. I would hate for any with Aspergers or ASD, or any condition, to be involved with psychologists that showed apathy towards persons with diagnosed mental health conditions and that liked prejudging like that, as many variables are involved that would require case by case analysis.

(3) Her website page did not state or suggest how NTs could be doing wrong, in such relationships. Although I agree that the NT could go through a lot of anxiety, stress and/or depression, the NT could also inflict severe abuses onto the one with Aspergers or Autism, because of any traumas they faced or because of their own personality flaws, and push that one with diagnosed or suspected ASD condition away, and then play victim, and make little attempt at resolvement.

(4) Other than that psychologist stating or suggestion that the medical society should pay more attention to and admit to the traumas of caregivers and family members, there were no specific solutions in her website to help the one with Aspergers or their families. It seems like the purpose of the website page was to promote empathy towards the NT, and likely so as the medical community can get more money from more new patients, as if she really cared, without money strings attached, create a website that gives numerous tips and solutions to help these relationships, with equal solutions for each side to consider.

(5) If one is a psychologist, why create a website singling out those with Aspergers or ASD? Does she have anger at those persons for some reason, more than others? If so, why? There certainly are mental health conditions more severe than that. It is as if maybe she had a personal bad experience with an Aspie, so her need to create a website focusing on them, as it seems bizarre to focus on just those with Aspergers, and would seem more proper if she would have instead just grouped all mental health conditions together, and create a webpage saying how those with a mental condition can make it hard for families and in many of those varying ways.

(6) The implication from that website and that psychologist is that NTs are way more empathetic than NTs. That is fiction. If they are so empathetic, then why did none of the teachers help me in school, and why did no students come to my aid when bullied, and why does discrimination run rampant against women, men, against minories, different races or ethnicities, the old, disabled, those with handicaps and mental illness?

Also, if NT's are so empathetic, then why are many NT medical professionals taking advantage of many patients, with dragged out treatments, not listening to patients and their families, over billing, diagnosing improperly sometimes to just satisfy insurances, etc. Yes, there are great doctors too, but there are great persons with any condition, too. How would it look like if I created a website saying all doctors had narcissism and without empathy, based on many experiences our family had with them? And why are so many abuses coming from NTs, and with little attempt to hold many of them accountable by other NTers, or in not taking away the victim then to safer environments? That shows a lack of empathy coming from NTs. Why are so many NTs these days obsessed about high achievements and their own personal happiness, more so than helping others? Is that empathy?

Why would so many NTs rather read books not with purpose to understand and help, but to escape or to be entertained? That is their right of course, as they could help in other ways. But, let's say an NT who did not relate in any way to Autism, read a book on Autism, which would be a very rare case. I bet most NTs would be closed minded and rather read something else, or even if that NT related in some way to Autism, they would in most cases read just a best seller related to that, due to slick advertising, or read from a doctor's perspective; a doctor that does not understand the Autism details up close having not lived that on a daily basis, rather than buy from from a parent who was living with Autistic children and who really spoke the truth in an empathetic way, with a goal to change the systems with specific solutions and not those on the Spectrum. That does not show empathy and a desire to understand from another persons perspective and that may not believe in heavy promotion or advertising.

But, of the several hundreds of mostly professional NTs who initiated being followers on my twitter, how many do you think had the empathy to read my website and buy my book, to learn about Autism, through a Dads perspective raising two different Autistic children? One. Had they have done that, I would have returned the favor. If they were an empathetic person they should not need me to sell them on the idea for them to have a heart, do the right thing, and to show care and respect to a parent that was trying hard to help society treat Autistics better. Instead, they all wanted to just promote their own stuff. Most Nts do not care about Autistics. They cannot empathize with what they are going through, much less care about their families. That psychologist likely had a bad experience and tried venting in a professional way, to get back at all Aspies. She should be banned from her profession.

 

[mw2530]

It is a troubling site to say the least. Completely one-sided. While some of the feelings on this site may be justified, no one is found guilty w/out having the opportunity to tell their side of the story. What is most irritating, is many people will believe the things on this site because it will validate of their feelings if they are in a relationship with someone with ASD. Or, will prevent someone in getting involved with someone who has ASD. Or, worst of all, affect how a NT interacts with anyone who has ASD and make damaging assumptions or have inaccurate preconceptions of people who have already suffered more than a lifetime of sufferings.

 

[Mia]

The more sites created by Aspies that detail their experiences in relationships with others, the better it will be for us. Unfortunately many Aspies blame themselves for the breakup of their relationships, and they don't speak out.

Hearing the other side of this 'hate fest' is what's needed.

 

[Dadwith2Autisticsons]

Another one of those "looks almost professional" sites that
unhappy people like to create in an attempt to get even for
disappointment and misunderstanding in their personal lives.


"About the author: I had a year-long relationship with a man who did not disclose his diagnosis of Asperger’s Syndrome. I also had a female friend with the disorder who chose not to tell me."
ABOUT THIS SITE

I guess that says it all. Hell hath no fury like a woman psychologist scorned.

 

[clg114]

People can be categorized in a lot of different ways. Aspie, Autie, male. female, doctor, baker and so on. To make a generalized statement about people in any one category does not work because we are all different. Yet, here we are again.

Someone said that some of these sites are due to failed relationships. Could be. After all if you were in a relationship with a Aspie and it failed, it has to be because of the Aspie. Right? Might as well start a website about all the bad things about Aspies. Or doctors. Or men.

 

[Judge]

The more sites created by Aspies that detail their experiences in relationships with others, the better it will be for us. Unfortunately many Aspies blame themselves for the breakup of their relationships, and they don't speak out.

Hearing the other side of this 'hate fest' is what's needed.

Lord knows how many times I've lamented over my failed relationships with NT women. Though your post compels me to add something. That for all the sorrow of losing one of those relationships in particular, this involved someone who is presently on husband number three.

"Reports of my autism being the prime mover for the failure of that relationship may have been greatly exaggerated."

 

[Katleya]

I don't think I have it in me this weekend to read yet another hateful post from an insecure person who thinks they can never be at fault, not even 1% of the issue.

But I have to say, I don't understand the woe-be-me attitude in these websites. You had a bad experience. OK. What's a better way to ensure you don't have more of these bad experiences? Spew hateful non-constructive criticism and heavy generalizations, both of which you present as "information" in the best interest of your gullible audience, or examine the root causes of the failure, and see all of the factors that contributed to it, some of them quite possibly having nothing to do with the partner's autism? Are some people really that incapable of introspection? And we're the ones lacking empathy?

Are they showing so much hate because we're a category of people perceived as weak enough that they won't fight back? I'll fight back. But how do you educate people who think their ignorance of autism or their one experience is valid knowledge?

 

[Judge]

I'll fight back. But how do you educate people who think their ignorance of autism or their one experience is valid knowledge?

Good question, given that social- and political majorities can be a very dangerous thing. The tyranny of any majority can empower great numbers of people to eschew any sense of a need to be educated on much of anything. Where public sentiment can be driven by baser instincts.

With the advent of the Internet compounding it all. Where anyone can provide their opinion, whether it is fact or farce.

 

[wight]

I'm writing this in this thread, but I've had this exact same response as a thought many times while reading about NTs or NDs writing about [insert: relationship problem, psychological problem] that really isn't ASD based.

If a person you know is a jerk, they are a jerk, it's not caused by ASD.
If your partner is a pathological liar, neglectful, abusive, narcissistic, neurotic, has "mommy issues", etc., it's not caused by ASD.

Autism is a GENETIC condition, psychopathy, sociopath, and other psychological conditions are NOT caused by this genetic condition. Proof? NT's also can be all of these things and their psychological causes are well defined. That someone is on the spectrum doesn't mean they didn't also experience the causes of these same psychological conditions.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

I don't think I have it in me this weekend to read yet another hateful post from an insecure person who thinks they can never be at fault, not even 1% of the issue.
But I have to say, I don't understand the woe-be-me attitude in these websites. You had a bad experience. OK. What's a better way to ensure you don't have more of these bad experiences? Spew hateful non-constructive criticism and heavy generalizations, both of which you present as "information" in the best interest of your gullible audience, or examine the root causes of the failure, and see all of the factors that contributed to it, some of them quite possibly having nothing to do with the partner's autism? Are some people really that incapable of introspection? And we're the ones lacking empathy?
Are they showing so much hate because we're a category of people perceived as weak enough that they won't fight back? I'll fight back. But how do you educate people who think their ignorance of autism or their one experience is valid knowledge?

They have to equalise their feelings.

Feeling uncomfortable is the worst for them.

Normally friends will join together to manufacture a deceit to make them feel good about themselves again, and that it wasnt their fault.
This obviously needed a bit more work to convince themselves they weren't to blame.

Feelings first,facts later (or never)

 

[Katleya]

Good question, given that social- and political majorities can be a very dangerous thing. The tyranny of any majority can empower great numbers of people to eschew any sense of a need to be educated on much of anything. Where public sentiment can be driven by baser instincts.

With the advent of the Internet compounding it all. Where anyone can provide their opinion, whether it is fact or farce.

I always enjoy reading your observations on tyranny, Judge.
I can't help but be scared that we're now living in a world that's an unhealthy mixture of eugenics and the scarlet letter. Every one can be submitted to trial from the community and ostracized, and at the same time, there's so much research that, in the wrong hands, would prove very helpful for anyone seeking to rid the species of certain variations among humans.

I can't recall whether it was here or elsewhere that I read something about the amount of funding that went towards research on catching signs of the spectrum as early as can be vs. the amount dedicated to helping adults, but there's a grim implication:
- Catch it early enough and at some point, it'll be acceptable to get rid of the "affected" babies; in due time, our subset goes extinct for no valid reason,
- Catch it in youth, design therapies that make the misfits fit and... what, now? Are they feeling better, but still have their skills, or have they assimilated the social codes so well that they become perpetrators as well?

There's no way to really know how much NDs have contributed to society (either in navigation for those who read Mia's post about Polynesia, or technology in the West, you name it). What happens to a society without us?

 

[The Midge]

Oh but the site did a survey PARTNER SURVEY RESULTS . Such a fine example of research it is too, with a robust selection of 40 or so self selecting participants and 70 negative leading questions. So that is justification.

 

[Ambi]

I do lack empathy. Which is why I don't feel sorry for the person who wrote that dang website, lol! BUT...what I do instead is logically understand that they are hurt. I couldn't get through the whole thing - again, possibly due to the lack of empathy - understanding she had been hurt just wasn't enough to hold my interest. BUT...I do want to be a better wife for my husband, I do think I can unintentionally neglect him sometimes. I may read through the site to check for "engine warning" signs of my own. I do wonder if this person can honestly say that all of these things were due to ASD as opposed to personality traits or personality disorders. Also, even with ASD, how much experience individuals have learning to be in relationships makes a big difference - it did for me, I had to really learn a lot, and still have a lot to learn. But NT partners have their own set of issues that can also result in abuse and neglect, etc. Anyway, I don't think I ever abused anyone, and even if I don't have empathy, I do have sympathy, and I am very attentive much of the time. Anyway, at this point I must musing to myself. Thanks for sharing.