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Those who have dealt with the SSA--was my experience common?

autism-and-autotune

A musical mind with recent revelations
This may be a vent here but I appreciate all your input.

A while back I applied with the Social Security Administration, and my interview was quite recent. It was, in short, a mixed bag of issues and I fear I am not alone in this realization. It was via Telehealth, as the location in my state is much too far to drive to. Right away there were technical issues; I'd been patient and logged on twenty minutes prior yet the doctor proctor said my camera kept shutting off. My WiFi was fine, but her screen was grainy.

This happened a couple times of logging off and back on, but she said warningly that should any interruptions happen again then the interview would be canceled. Even after switching to another device, her screen was still problematic and there were gaps, but we muscled through it. "We've already taken up fifteen minutes, so we don't have much time left," the proctor doctor warned me.

Onto the questions then, which mystified me as we didn't even discuss medical issues or what my disability was. Several times I was interrupted or cut off, which really irked me but I did my best to be civil. At times I was allowed to freely elaborate, but at other times less so. There were gaps in conversation too because, well, autism...but for the most part I tried to be articulate. I went into detail about pathological demand avoidance, which really is an issue all the time for me.

Despite having a two-hour allotted time, the process took less than an hour; maybe forty minutes to my surprise. Should I take this as bad news, or as good news? Do I write to the disability center in my state, noting my disappointment with the attitude of my proctor, or would that go against me? I won't say that I felt dehumanized or felt lesser, but...so much about the experience just made me feel icky. My partner, who was not in the room but overheard a lot of the questions, was furious.

So there's that :/ I'm neither discouraged nor hopeful; just...processing.
 
I have never in my life applied for disability. Not knowing I was autistic and learning to be independent, I dug deep and started a career. There were behavioral difficulties along the way that I needed to correct. I do not regret my path.
 
I have never in my life applied for disability. Not knowing I was autistic and learning to be independent, I dug deep and started a career. There were behavioral difficulties along the way that I needed to correct. I do not regret my path.
I'm glad that things have worked out for you! :)
 
Restrictive, tiring, and constantly vigilant less you do something that seems fraudulent in any way.
Yes; this is my worry. At times I fear they think I may be exaggerating my limitations, but it's not true. "Oh, you could do it before, so why not now?"
 
Yes; this is my worry. At times I fear they think I may be exaggerating my limitations, but it's not true. "Oh, you could do it before, so why not now?"
You should be concerned. The reality of being denied such benefits are notoriously high. Made much worse by those seeking such benefits without formal legal representation from the outset.

The system seems geared to turning people down almost in a ritualistic and bureaucratic fashion. Almost as if one is presumed guilty of fraud until proven innocent. An example based on disabled workers:

"The final award rate for disabled-worker applicants has varied over time, averaging 31 percent for claims filed from 2010 through 2019. The percentage of applicants awarded benefits at the initial claims level averaged 21 percent over the same period and ranged from a high of 23 percent to a low of 20 percent. The percentages of applicants awarded at the reconsideration and hearing levels have averaged 2 percent and 8 percent, respectively. Denied disability claims have averaged 67 percent."

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/di_asr/2020/sect04.html#chart11
 
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I did not know this was an option, however a lawyer was only suggested to due another SSA matter as well ass if I get denied benefits.
You should be able to do a search for ssa (ssdi/ssi) attorneys in your area. I think you can search for nonlegal ssa advocates as well. SSA disability lawyers usually take on promising cases for a contingency fee. I'm not sure it is in your best interest to try to write the disability center of your state without an attorney.

It seems like it may be too late now and you probably should wait to get an attorney when/if you need to file an appeal. But I'm not sure about that. Perhaps you could ask attorneys during the initial free consultation you get when you start looking.
 
You should be concerned. The reality of being denied such benefits are notoriously high. Made much worse by those seeking such benefits without formal legal representation from the outset.

The system seems geared to turning people down almost in a ritualistic and bureaucratic fashion. Almost as if one is presumed guilty of fraud until proven innocent. An example based on disabled workers:

"The final award rate for disabled-worker applicants has varied over time, averaging 31 percent for claims filed from 2010 through 2019. The percentage of applicants awarded benefits at the initial claims level averaged 21 percent over the same period and ranged from a high of 23 percent to a low of 20 percent. The percentages of applicants awarded at the reconsideration and hearing levels have averaged 2 percent and 8 percent, respectively. Denied disability claims have averaged 67 percent."

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/di_asr/2020/sect04.html#chart11

Rubber stamping denials occurs a lot in the first two stages especially, for SSI cases too, so if the op is denied, I recommend a lawyer to appeal and bring up all the stuff they did wrong to possibly affect the exam or that showed bias in their findings, and to get new medical evidence to go against that consultative examiner..

Unfortunately, most who go through the process have to have patience and grin and bear that agency's and associated agency's mistakes, lies, condition minimization, delays, coldness, spinning of facts, assumptions, other tactics, and so forth, as they are not neutral and fair entities, with no hurry to find the disabled,--disabled, regardless if you satisfy step by step their 5 step disability determination process.

The sad part is many go homeless, give up the appeals due to severe stress and depression dealing with them, have deteriorating relationships from denials and lengthy delays, and some even die in the process, waiting for what they are entitled to by law. At minimum they get worsened conditions because of that bureaucratic process that looks down on and lacks shown care for such people. That is what discrimination is all about, and apathy, and it is sad that even some on forums of support are even against these persons, just because they cannot relate.

Just because some make it and work through things, that does not make those persons better. We all have different conditions, and life experiences, so those against the disabled or those not working to SGA levels, let us not assume anything about these claimants and beneficiaries. They could be far advanced in other ways where you all are lacking.

I will be wishing the op success there!
 
Despite having a two-hour allotted time, the process took less than an hour; maybe forty minutes to my surprise. Should I take this as bad news, or as good news? Do I write to the disability center in my state, noting my disappointment with the attitude of my proctor, or would that go against me? I won't say that I felt dehumanized or felt lesser, but...so much about the experience just made me feel icky. My partner, who was not in the room but overheard a lot of the questions, was furious.

So there's that :/ I'm neither discouraged nor hopeful; just...processing.


The person who interviewed you is probably judged by how many interviews they get thru in a day. The bad connection made them even more tense. Technical problems are technical problems. They happen. One should never get angry with a computer. It doesn't care. But people react like it was someone's fault.

It is an adversarial process. There are people out there who look to defraud the system. Probably billions of dollars of fraud.

Combine the two factors, and you get a bad experience. Since you had no control over it, as long as you get what you are genuinely qualified for, let it go.
 
You should be concerned. The reality of being denied such benefits are notoriously high. Made much worse by those seeking such benefits without formal legal representation from the outset.

The system seems geared to turning people down almost in a ritualistic and bureaucratic fashion. Almost as if one is presumed guilty of fraud until proven innocent. An example based on disabled workers:

"The final award rate for disabled-worker applicants has varied over time, averaging 31 percent for claims filed from 2010 through 2019. The percentage of applicants awarded benefits at the initial claims level averaged 21 percent over the same period and ranged from a high of 23 percent to a low of 20 percent. The percentages of applicants awarded at the reconsideration and hearing levels have averaged 2 percent and 8 percent, respectively. Denied disability claims have averaged 67 percent."

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/di_asr/2020/sect04.html#chart11

Yes, this is true.
I think another reason people often hesitate or refuse to seek any form of benefits when they genuinely need it is that there is so much stigma around it. Like people being accused of being a leech, being lazy, or "taking other people's money away."

I applied for disability years ago when I was unemployed, due to my medical issues, and I immediately regretted it because of how judgmental people were.
I have a career now and am no longer on disability (haven't been for years), because my health has improved to the point that I can work full time.

People seem to forget that there are people who are genuinely too ill or injured to work.
 
I do not think the system though should be judging claimants as potential frauds that have diagnosed conditions and have no SGA work history, ones that apparently were getting benefits as a child if I understand correctly, for severe possibly related to Autism childhood medical issues, and especially when that agency is widely known for lack of objectivity and denying claims that fully met their guidelines.

Of course there are those who defraud the system, just as there are professionals who commit such violations all the time, or that turn a blind eye to things in their system that is unethical, corrupt or discriminatory, but that is not an excuse to assume guilt before innocence. Look at each case separately, to be judged on its own merits. Service and professional persons are human too, but their demeanor and resulting decisions can make the difference between life and death, homelessness, divorce or condition worsening. They must be held to higher standards.

Video problems are not an excuse to treat claimants bad, as, from what I know elsewhere, it was that office that requested the video conference, and likely to benefit them, not with intent to help the claimant even if the claimant wanted that. Can video of the claimant at home in more relaxed surroundings pick up how the claimant could have acted differently in a more stressful medical setting? Can video at home pick up other things that could show up more in medical settings, like when walking, sitting down, seeing a new environment or live doctor in person for the first time, exiting, etc? So, that could be favoring the examiner, if that examiner already had an idea beforehand where they were heading, based on not enough or not more recent medical evidence, that justified the CE, or if they receive pressure–indirect or direct– from SSA/DDS to not approve or support the disability.

The bottom line is, if the SSA/DDS want to assume guilt, until proven otherwise, fine okay play that game. Then the claimant/beneficiary can assume fraud coming from that bureaucracy, and hurtful intentions behind many things they say or do, as research will show those agencies are far from saints, as there is far more dishonesty and unfairness, and lack of objectivity coming from those agencies, than from the typical disability claimant who most do not want to apply for such meager benefits, or get such a label, but must for their health and well being, and because of an inability to work to SGA levels by no fault of their own...

That unfairness happens at all levels in that system, as seen through research and findings, but especially lower stages, and it is widely known the Consultative Examiners are not objective, fully trained in evaluating all conditions, nor are they independent thinkers there, in addition to DDS internal doctors who too often go against claimant doctors. These people, and the claims examiners, receive pressure from the SSA/DDS to not approve certain number of claims, to meet internal desired quotas. And look at the stats. The vast majority of the 70% denied claims at the initial stage, are overturned later, from my research with 13% reversed decisions at appeal stage number one and then 47% of cases won at the 2nd appeal Administrative Law Judge stage.

So, what does this mean? Either the SSA/DDS were unfair earlier on with the majority of cases, for 60% of decisions to be reversed later, to an approval, or the claimant did not provide enough medical evidence earlier on, with or without a lawyer. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle, for most cases, but clearly the 2 bureaucracies involved have shown to play a big part there in not being fair and timely in giving accurate rulings for many cases that had much merit. The lower stages do not fairly weigh the evidence, and are in no hurry to do so, either because of pressure to push the cases forward to appeal stages, or as they do not have the time, or training to analyze medical findings and compare it to their 5 step process, or as they figure serious cases will be appealed to the end, and a judge will determine the merits of the claim there.

Well, again, the assumption is that many of these claimants can wait two years or so to get through that ALJ third stage. Many of these disabled applicants have severe mental or physical conditions whereby such delays or stress handling the cold and often seen as not-objective system, even if a lawyer is handling that, will exasperate their health and conditions regardless. So yes, fraud cases are weeded out, through these stages, and that is good, BUT at the expense of suffering of so many of the other cases that should have been approved more timely, with those person's, with cases with much merit, giving up, because they could not deal with that bureaucracy, or naively thinking the system must have been fair for what they were initially saying and for the denials , and when they acted as if they knew the situation well, but often what they were saying was the partial truth or just fiction, OR assumptions.. Many with Autism and other conditions assume professionals and agency people are neutral parties, following the rules. Well not in all cases, as the disability reversals later show, and if one does research. Or was it just that their rules are slanted again the claimants?

What is ironic is that our entire family(4 members) were approved during the initial stage. No appeals were needed. It is not because we are more disabled necessarily than most all the others who applied, and who were denied. It is because I knew how to present the evidence, in a logical and factual way, and to show in detail how each of us satisfied each step of their 5 step process. I did so in a polite, very convincing, yet professional way. You think many disabled will do this? And not instead resort to generalities or intense emotion which gives them reason to deny?

And, many disabled persons do not either know the rules there, or have the patience or abilities to do that. It should be the examiner who should realize that many disabilities can make doing that hard too, and if they cannot articulate things well to a lawyer/doctors because of the nature of their conditions. The examiner thus should have more leeway to factor this in and make educated guesses or reasonable inferences based on medical and other evidence, and as not all doctors will be specific in stating detailed limitations too. The SSA knows that, but they want disabled persons to act like lawyers or something and be able to express everything.

So, if one has no SGA work history, one or more well documented diagnosed conditions listed in the SSA BlueBook, that are acceptable conditions as a disability if meeting severity, and if a doctor just generally states they feel the claimant has difficulties with day to day activities and/or functioning, for instance, it should be up to the SSA to then ask the right additional questions needed to the patients doctor, or to get an independent doctor, not CE that is paid for by the SSA, to probe further. Asking all disabled persons to prove they are disabled seems unreasonable, in light of certain conditions make that impossible and as many doctors are not thorough and are prohibited by SSA to state they feel that claimant is disabled. .

So, yes, look at educational and work history, but also take into consideration what is on the application, ask further relevant questions and looking for consistency, and assume not that disability is not present, if things were leaning in that direction but just needed further inquiry. Make the process more caring, fair and timely, and not as unfeeling, lengthy, and with adversarial stance. Go straight to the law Judge stage, soon after any denial. If this requires more judges hired, so be it, as it is clear the 1st two stages are a joke. Mostly the very savvy with disabilities who get their points clearly across get approved, or those with very rare obvious severe physical conditions. The majority of the rest suffer, just to weed out a few bad, fraud apples.

The reason I am slightly venting a bit here is I tried to help dozens of claimants, and most cases with extreme merit were not approved until stage three, but I cannot write their applications for them or cover letters, or find rare competent, probing or detailed lawyers and doctors. I can point them in the right direction, but without a good lawyer and thorough doctor, unless things are perfectly presented, as as most lawyers are average at best or do hardly nothing really helpful, the odds are against one being approved stage one and two, if not presented in an overwhelming and convincing way. The SSA would rather assume either ability, or want you to prove yourself to a judge. For those with substantial work histories, chances of prevailing are poor, even if well documented disability, unless you can prove the disability began after that, or condition worsened much after that..
 
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You should be concerned. The reality of being denied such benefits are notoriously high. Made much worse by those seeking such benefits without formal legal representation from the outset.

The system seems geared to turning people down almost in a ritualistic and bureaucratic fashion. Almost as if one is presumed guilty of fraud until proven innocent. An example based on disabled workers:

"The final award rate for disabled-worker applicants has varied over time, averaging 31 percent for claims filed from 2010 through 2019. The percentage of applicants awarded benefits at the initial claims level averaged 21 percent over the same period and ranged from a high of 23 percent to a low of 20 percent. The percentages of applicants awarded at the reconsideration and hearing levels have averaged 2 percent and 8 percent, respectively. Denied disability claims have averaged 67 percent."

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/di_asr/2020/sect04.html#chart11
What sort of legal representation would you suggest? I cannot afford a lawyer right now.

Oh, it's definitely rigged; of this, there is no doubt. But why it is so difficult and staffed by those who cannot understand our issues is beyond me.
 
Yes, this is true.
I think another reason people often hesitate or refuse to seek any form of benefits when they genuinely need it is that there is so much stigma around it. Like people being accused of being a leech, being lazy, or "taking other people's money away."

I applied for disability years ago when I was unemployed, due to my medical issues, and I immediately regretted it because of how judgmental people were.
I have a career now and am no longer on disability (haven't been for years), because my health has improved to the point that I can work full time.

People seem to forget that there are people who are genuinely too ill or injured to work.
Hmm...your first paragraph mirrors very much what my parents think of those living off of funds from the government. They treated my cousin and his wife (behind their backs, of course) extremely poorly when they were trying to get by on grants. I doubt very much that my parents would be pleased if they knew I can no longer work...but it's my life, not theirs *shrugs*

I'm sorry to hear that others were very judgemental of you; it's not fair. But I'm glad that things have been able to work out for you!

it's really baffling. We wouldn't bat an eye at someone who is physically disabled and unable to work, so why the mental side of things? Well, because it's invisible and massively misunderstood.
 
What sort of legal representation would you suggest? I cannot afford a lawyer right now.
Probably the most pragmatic thing to do is to contact any number of members of the bar who specialize in SSA cases and can advise you on what kind of options and terms would work for you. After all, I would venture that a considerable number of such clients are likely to be strapped for cash as well. So it stands to reason that hopefully their terms and fees would take this into consideration. Perhaps similar to those seeking tax relief from the IRS.

Oh, it's definitely rigged; of this, there is no doubt. But why it is so difficult and staffed by those who cannot understand our issues is beyond me.

The politics of government entitlements in this country is inherently contentious given the very nature of the political divide. Reflecting those who support the concept of a modern welfare state and those who fundamentally oppose it.

Resulting in classic political compromise. The state provides such entitlements, but zealously regulates them limiting both real eligibility and cases of fraud- by design.
 
You can also write or speak to your congresscritters office. Part of their executive functioning is to guide their constituents through the beaurocracy and advocate for them.
 

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