To divorce or not to divorce - That is the question

[Shamar]

Whether tis nobler to suffer the slings and arrows of criticism, complaints, insults and demands,
or to take up a packed suitcase and leave a sea of troubles, and so end them?

That pretty much sums it up. For an NT, it would have been a no brainer long ago. But as we all know, we are different. The familiar hell is more comfortable than the unknown potential paradise. If I leave, I am truly alone again and virtually no possibility of that changing. That thought alone is scary and mentally, almost physically painful. Yet staying in a loveless marriage (married only in a technical sense, nobody would call what we have a marriage) stressful, maddening, and frustrating.

I'm not sure I'm seeking advice or comments here, maybe I just need to rant a bit.

She lives by a few simple rules. Never miss on opportunity to complain, criticize, or insult (I don't think she can go three sentences without it). Anything that does not fit the category problem must, by definition, belong in the category disaster. I hate to butcher Will Rogers this way, but she never met a person she didn't dislike. Everybody in the world is out to cheat or humiliate her (oftentimes through me). She is the world expert on everything. Thus, anyone who disagrees must, but definition, be either retarded, psychopathic, or an enemy. If you do not agree, then you must be working against her. If I am working on something, she has no idea what I am doing, what is wrong, what the procedures are, or what the goal is, but she will tell me in excruciating detail what to do about it. She can summarize a five minute video in only ten minutes. She has yet to actually finish summarizing a movie. Our son regularly says things along the lines of "Mom, I love you, but you are making me crazy!"

OK, so now what?

 

[Gerontius]

Counseling?

 

[Aspychata]

This is abusive behavior.

This doesn't show love or caring. This is pure abuse. She is emotionally abusive. She may not physically attack you, but psychological abuse is just as degrading and humiliating. Can you call her on this?

 

[Atrapa Almas]

Get ready for the divorce what means to find a new place to live, save your precious belongings, and in sum be ready for war. Once you are ready and feel safe try the counseling route.

If that doesnt work, go divorce.

Asking divorce to later on think on what you will do is like declaring war first and do the strategy later. Bad idea.

 

[AGXStarseed]

Counseling?

I'm not sure about that.
I've heard a few "horror" stories from guys who go to counseling with their wives - only for the counselor to side with the wife and blame the husband for everything going wrong in the relationship.
I'm not saying this happens with every counseling session, but it's still something to take note of.

 

[Aspychata]

Was she always abusive and you just only looked thru your pink love glasses and never noticed this?

 

[Gerontius]

I'm not sure about that.
I've heard a few "horror" stories from guys who go to counseling with their wives - only for the counselor to side with the wife and blame the husband for everything going wrong in the relationship.
I'm not saying this happens with every counseling session, but it's still something to take note of.

I've never had to deal with counseling anyway so it's all new to me. I wonder though if OP could make something work. Better than nothing, I suppose.


Sometimes I wonder if folks like OP's wife are missing something that could be provided & settle things out a lot. The wife has emotional needs (like, needing to be a lot nicer than she's being at present.) Some people have never been given that reality check they need.

 

[tree]

@Shamar

How long have you been married?

What was it like in the beginning?

 

[Magna]

I think you already know this, and you said your intention in posting is likely more to rant, but that's entirely a decision you should make yourself.

I actually think it's a terrible idea for others to make suggestions on whether or not a person should end their marriage; the only exception I could see to that is if the other spouse is a danger to the person's life or safety or would cause something cataclysmic in the person's life (e.g. financial ruin, loss of home, etc due to a gambling addiction, etc).

I say this as a person who many years ago was in your situation and I sought the advice of a therapist. I assumed the therapist would advise me on the best decision to make in relation to ending my marriage or staying in it. The therapist did help in the sense that she sat there and listened to me "talk things through", but she was very clear that in no way was she going to tell me which decision I should make.

 

[Shamar]

Counseling?

Since she is Practically Perfect in Every Way, she doesn't need to change anything. Everybody else in the world needs to change to suit her.

@Shamar

How long have you been married?

What was it like in the beginning?

We have been married 26 years. It was good in the beginning, until our son was born. At that point, I think she transferred everything to our son, and nothing was left for me. I have to admit that all this, in a sense, is partly my fault. I have written here before about my inability to connect or bond with others. What I thought was love was really another case of mistaking relief from loneliness with love. I tried, I really tried. I wanted it to work, and I may have been able to keep going if she had reciprocated, but I can't say for sure. I just don't know.

Thanks to all who responded.

 

[Thinx]

I would try to back off from blaming, seems neither of you has been enjoying your relationship recently or been able to address that effectively, so respectfully ending it does seem a potentially preferable option.

You will need to think about how to have some pleasant connection with others, whether you end this or not. Joining an interest group? Doing voluntary work? Learning a new skill? You deserve to feel happier.

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

Having gone through a divorce, I'd strongly suggest trying to work it out if possible. Counseling, etc.

Tearing apart two families is a trauma that lasts decades.

You seem to be playing the blame game a lot too. Is she really "always" like that?

I have a feeling that there is a root hurt that has been cutting into both of you. Maybe you're even both yelling at the wrong thing.

It's up to you. But just know, it rips two families apart, and you may find, later, that you still love her and can't get her back.

Oh and one more idea.. how old is she? Maybe she's menopausal and what she needs is hormone therapy to chill out?

 

[Aspychata]

Since she is Practically Perfect in Every Way, she doesn't need to change anything. Everybody else in the world needs to change to suit her.

We have been married 26 years. It was good in the beginning, until our son was born. At that point, I think she transferred everything to our son, and nothing was left for me. I have to admit that all this, in a sense, is partly my fault. I have written here before about my inability to connect or bond with others. What I thought was love was really another case of mistaking relief from loneliness with love. I tried, I really tried. I wanted it to work, and I may have been able to keep going if she had reciprocated, but I can't say for sure. I just don't know.

Thanks to all who responded.

So you are taking responsibility. You said you had a hard time bonding. Bonding for me is doing things together. New things, mundane things, this helps me bond. Do you think your inability to bond drove her into a shell?

She feels hurt and withdraws? You feel hurt and withdraw? Sometimes taking care of a child does screw up your priorities. It happen to me. But l was raising a emotionally sensitive daughter who bordered on feeling depressed. Luckily she has moved on. Not sure if she has bipolar issues. She is clearly on the spectrum and the teen and teenager years were hard for me.

 

[Judge]

She lives by a few simple rules. Never miss on opportunity to complain, criticize, or insult (I don't think she can go three sentences without it). Anything that does not fit the category problem must, by definition, belong in the category disaster. I hate to butcher Will Rogers this way, but she never met a person she didn't dislike.

She sounds like Leona Helmsley. Nicknamed "The Queen Of Mean".

 

[Fino]

Perhaps you can explain to her that if her behavior continues, you're strongly considering divorce.

 

[Homulilly]

but she was very clear that in no way was she going to tell me which decision I should make.

Therapists in general are trained not to give too much advice. The mentality being that it is more empowering for the client to realize solutions on their own. I personally don’t like this approach. I mean, the whole point of going to a therapist is because I’m confused, not giving me a hair of clue on what to do only makes me more confused. And then because I’m there ruminating how I can’t come up with solutions, I only end up feeling more helpless. Asking friends for advice and to vent was more helpful.

 

[Aspychata]

Therapists in general are trained not to give too much advice. The mentality being that it is more empowering for the client to realize solutions on their own. I personally don’t like this approach. I mean, the whole point of going to a therapist is because I’m confused, not giving me a hair of clue on what to do only makes me more confused. And then because I’m there ruminating how I can’t come up with solutions, I only end up feeling more helpless. Asking friends for advice and to vent was more helpful.

I agree. I like a therapist who helps me figure out what l feel. Then slowly nudge me nicely towards a solution but act like it was my idea, and do it all under 150 dollars in one session. That is the therapist extraordinaire, l just get Mr or Ms. Potato head therapist who is a dud spud.

 

[Gerontius]

Therapists in general are trained not to give too much advice. The mentality being that it is more empowering for the client to realize solutions on their own. I personally don’t like this approach. I mean, the whole point of going to a therapist is because I’m confused, not giving me a hair of clue on what to do only makes me more confused. And then because I’m there ruminating how I can’t come up with solutions, I only end up feeling more helpless. Asking friends for advice and to vent was more helpful.

It was late when I replied earlier so I misspoke. When I say I have zero experience with counseling I mean couples counseling/relationship counseling. I had to do six months of CBT which is when I got diagnosed autistic (Doc was suspecting it the first session, and on the second, he was convinced "thin man in funny hat got his brain off K-mart return shelf.")

What he did was give me enough information to work with, then give me enough skills to get personally involved. He had me write up a sort of bio agreeing with, or disagreeing with, symptoms of autism.

What he got back, was a transcription of the symptom sheet--with the questions typed in red ink and answers in black, full-length answers & examples of whether I'd experienced this or that, or not, and when he was reading them he made the mistake of saying the printout looked a little funny.

If the 3 pages of single-spaced mental minutiae didn't convince him I was autistic, the comprehensive description of the mechanism on my 1919 Oliver typewriter did. (I rambled then and I ramble too much now.)

Doc ended up helping me out a great deal I think because he was able to hit the balance of how to do therapy. He gave me the tools I needed to work on myself, and then taught me how to do it.


Now in the context of the discussion I'd like to see how a couples counselor would do this. I know NOTHING about this but if I was a doctor, I'd ask the guy & the gal to come in for a session or two, and ask a bunch of questions (mostly to see how they'd react. They don't know it yet but that's why I'd be watching them.) Then I'd do one-on-one sessions. A little bit alternating, a little bit back-to-back. That way I got to know them--their situations--everything.
Since our lifestyles are a lot of how we live I'd ask for pictures of their house & their pets, stories about how work is like, how are the kids! and the dog! and the neighborhood!

THEN--I'd get together some hypotheses and bounce them off the individual people in the couple, in one-on-one sessions. Once I saw how they reacted individually I'd put them back together in a group session & try either the same hypotheses, or some new ones if I had reason to believe there were new ones.

And since I know nothing about couples counseling that's probably a horrible way to do this but it's what I'd try to do. Saying "divorce" or even thinking of divorce as an acceptable option is supremely dangerous to marriage -- It'd be hard to remember one's vows if one party can think that the spouse would theoretically drop him or her and go find someone else.

 

[Callistemon]

I like your post above, @Gerontius, but disagree that divorce is to be avoided at all costs. I think when a relationship becomes abusive and starts to corrode one person or both, that people need to act in the interests of their mental/emotional health and life goals. I think that domestic abuse terminates the wedding vows, well before divorce does. Also, if a person has married a predator or even just a narcissist - and people, especially young people, may not realise this until they are already married - then they ought not be pressured to stay with such a person, on account of having married them. Some of these people are really good at putting on a show for a while, until they have their target where they want them.

If a marriage doesn't bring out the best in both people, and allow both people to have peace of mind and to develop themselves positively as human beings, then it's not a healthy marriage. Sometimes counselling can help couples, but only if both are motivated, and they have a decent counsellor, but both of those aren't givens.

I'm a fan of marriage personally and I take it seriously, but there are conditions under which I would discontinue a marriage - and that is if it stopped being healthy, and started seriously damaging one or the other person and their humanity, wellbeing and purpose in life.

 

[Aspychata]

Not sure if l can truly be a fan of marriage. It was used to hold me captive. It was horrible. It was used to mess with my mind, l was gaslighted or manipulated. I was subjected to severe inhumane treatment. I now stood up and reclaimed myself. I hate abuse now. Glad l can now discuss this but it has taken 7 years to get here with the help of an sensitive autistic handsome guy.