Trying to work out why social skills vary

[Dryope]

I'm not officially diagnosed, but two psychologists this year have suggested I may be autistic (the psychologists I've seen in the past have fired me for being "emotionally unavailable"). I've taken all the free autism online tests and scored high, which is suggestive but means little. I've read through my old diaries recently and I have definitely experienced difficulty understanding social situations all my life. But I've also had severe intolerances to gluten and casein that I only just now got resolved, which seem to mess me up, too -- causing anxiety and depression. I feel like I'm waking up for the first time in a long time.

The odd thing is that I can "do" social stuff: I can "perform" ostentatiously at parties, telling jokes and being "on" and witty (a special interest of mine, like stand-up comedy). I can go on and on about my hobbies to anyone who will listen. I can make eye contact and I can have deep heart-to-heart conversations on the phone. I can have meetings with important people and be polished.

But I also can't. I can't function at parties if the situation isn't right -- I am shy and don't know what to say at all, and end up being the weird girl with the foot in her mouth. I can't make eye contact -- it burns; I can think but can't speak -- it's like walking against a strong current to get the words out. I am terrified of anyone I know (for reasons I'm not consciously aware of) and won't read their letters or talk to them on the phone. I lose my ability to speak and begin convulsively stimming at social situations with people I know well in public places. Socializing too much makes colors look brighter, sounds louder, my limbs clumsy, and my vision swims, for hours and hours afterwards. The sound or sight of my name scares me.

I'm confused how I can handle social stuff really well at times and be blindsided by my social burn-out from stress/anxiety at others. It's like I'm possessed by two spirits, one of whom is great and the other is kind of an idiot. I never know what I'm going to get -- my mind is just ticking along and doing its thing and then I have to work with whatever energy I've got at the time, which leads to drastic differences in performance. The cognitive side of this is the same: I am smart and focused or all ADD and with a lowered IQ -- and that seems to be connected to some of the social stuff.

But what is going on? I know I missed social cues in my childhood, and I know I acted "aspergery" as a child (my cousins called me "Wednesday Adams" and my first boyfriend's name for me was "Spock", just to give an impression of what I was like). My diaries show me puzzling out social stuff in my 20s to learn it the same way I would a foreign language. I just threw out a trash bag's worth of instructions to myself on social training programs for myself I developed.

But now, as an adult (I'm in my late 30s), I get whiplash between the social skills I've honed and my ability to perform them -- which is yanked away at sudden moments, probably because I have a hard time reading my own emotions (I'm learning this skill now).

Anyway, any thoughts on this? Does this sound familiar? Or am I totally off-base in thinking autism? Because sometimes, I seem so normal.

(And...I want to get diagnosed...but I also hate the thought of prostrating myself in front of a psychologist. I know -- "autism" is a psychologist-created label -- but I just resent their authority over me. I know that's irrational, though, so I'm trying to talk myself out of that view.)

 

[AsheSkyler]

Sometimes a shy, awkward introvert with allergies is just a shy, awkward introvert with allergies. Or autoimmune issues, in your case. You sound potentially on the spectrum to me. Have you come across some of the resources on female Aspies yet? Like this one by Rudy Simone: help4aspergers.com - List of Female Asperger traits
Or the blog by Cynthia Kim: Musings of an Aspie | one woman's thoughts about life on the spectrum

A lot of ladies are very good at blending and appearing normal, one of the reasons why its theorized that the "3/4 of autistics are male" statistic is wrong. There was a thread started recently around here where we discussed our various disqualifiers.

 

[Dryope]

Yes, actually I first met you on Cynthia's blog -- I mentioned in another thread, but I left a private group we were in because I got freaked out by seeing my real name in print. I totally should have gone with the online moniker there. :/ (I still don't know why seeing other people talk about me in the third person does that to me -- it makes no rational sense.)

I've read everything I could find on women with autism and everything I could find on autism in general that addressed my experience. I do know about those resources, but thanks for the reminder.

Does this resonate with folks here? I know I test high up (very high up) and my experience matches what I've seen in the resources, but it's one thing to read about it and another thing to see if what I'm experiencing really does make sense to folks on the spectrum. I am constantly worried that I'm talking myself into a label that I don't belong in.

(I should mention that here in Japan I don't have access to a doctor for diagnosis. I'll move back to the States later this year.)

Anyway, thanks for the response.

 

[Progster]

I would say that the symptoms and experiences you mention are definitely consistent with ASD, and it sound like you get sensory overload after socialising, or a 'social hangover' - that happens to me, too. It's not that we can't socialize, we can learn to act NT and fit in. It's just that socializing is hard work; we are performers on stage wearing a fragile mask which is not our true selves, and it can just take one thing not being right to knock things out of kilter and then all our mask fails, and then anxiety takes over. I would definitely think about seeking a diagnosis and reading more about other people's experiences.

 

[AsheSkyler]

Howdy again, then!

You make a lot of sense to me, both from my own personal experiences and experiences I've read of people officially on the spectrum. Especially from the ones who weren't the "classic/low-functioning" autistics who got recognized at a young age. My nickname when I was a kid was "sunshine" in a non-sarcastic way because I was the bright, goofy, silly one that always made people smile and I still have a joke ready for most situations. Love stand-up comedy too, I've got a handful of DVDs lying around. And they say we have no sense of humour! I gotta find that article somebody shared a few weeks back highlighting the good side of ASD, humor was on the list.

I'm not too keen on chit-chatting with doctors and therapists either, so you're not alone on that front.

 

[kris]

If you're able to connect with any local aspies, that might help.. I knkw it did for me. I've decided not to get diagnosed officially but still in the process of learning all I can to try and help with the social stuff. Your experiences sound very similar to my own.

 

[Judge]

Oh yes. Very familiar. And the older you get, the more likely that you may be able to "fake it" socially.

Yet in my case, once I get home and shut the door behind me, I'm still exhausted from faking it...or trying to. That never changes.

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

I've read everything I could find on women with autism and everything I could find on autism in general that addressed my experience. I do know about those resources, but thanks for the reminder.

Does this resonate with folks here? I know I test high up (very high up) and my experience matches what I've seen in the resources, but it's one thing to read about it and another thing to see if what I'm experiencing really does make sense to folks on the spectrum. I am constantly worried that I'm talking myself into a label that I don't belong in.

(I should mention that here in Japan I don't have access to a doctor for diagnosis. I'll move back to the States later this year.)

Anyway, thanks for the response.

Oh yes. I test absurdly high--like, slopping into NT range--in one area only, and am deep on the other side everywhere else, according to the mindmap test (I think that's the RDOS one). But it happens that I have a couple of well-known, statistically probable comorbids, and one of my doctors is an expert in those, and volunteered an opinion--not a diagnosis.

Bloody thing really is a spectrum.

Consequently I compulsively join groups and then either irritate them or get irritated by them. It's like I can have my solitude as long as I pay for it with loneliness.

One thing that I've appreciated--which I'm not necessarily recommending, but it did help me--was to peek at the scores of anybody willing to publish theirs, so I could see how I did or didn't match. I find it helpful to see how well the numbers tell me about how entropy might drive my relationships. (Not enough data to tell, currently. Serves me right for trying to simplify the problem to something I could work with using only the available data.)

But, yes, having the same social issues over and over again, in different environments, at different times in my life, has convinced me I'm not making it up. Even if it is all in my head.

 

[AsheSkyler]

One thing that I've appreciated--which I'm not necessarily recommending, but it did help me--was to peek at the scores of anybody willing to publish theirs, so I could see how I did or didn't match.

I had to start a webpage for all the test scores I was accumulating. I've got 10 at the moment. XD

 

[kris]

I had to start a webpage for all the test scores I was accumulating. I've got 10 at the moment. XD

Ooh.. Do you have a link for all the sites with tests? I've taken everything I could find, but I don't think it's as many as 10

 

[NateSean]

To answer the question that is the title of this thread: The reason social skills vary for any person is because we are human beings and we're not required to be switched on 24/7. Diagnosis or not, you are allowed to pick your battles from time to time and maybe some parties just aren't right for you.

For my part, I can do pretty well in parties, as long as I'm not expected to "perform" and I have an easy exit. If I come off as awkward with someone, it's because I enjoy their company and want to do everything in my power to keep them in my circle as it were. If all you are is a passing interest to me, I can usually keep the conversation to a polite minimum and focus instead on whatever fare the host has provided. (Oh yeah, if there's no food or drink at your gathering, just preemptively consider my name scratched from the list)

 

[Judge]

Diagnosis or not, you are allowed to pick your battles from time to time and maybe some parties just aren't right for you.

Good point. There are parties for pure fun, and there are others that have great purpose. The latter always made me cringe.

Social occasions directly connected with your job. Where there are potentially some real stakes involved. Occasions which might not be advisable to pass on. Stressful for NTs and Aspies for essentially the same reasons.

All those potential variables when it comes to socialization in general, transcending all neurological perspectives. In work or play, and different chemistry of people to consider. Like parties to enjoy, and others to simply stress over. Sometimes they might work for us, other times not at all.

 

[Judge]

Ooh.. Do you have a link for all the sites with tests? I've taken everything I could find, but I don't think it's as many as 10

Good question...I noticed I had only six tests bookmarked!

 

[AsheSkyler]

Ooh.. Do you have a link for all the sites with tests? I've taken everything I could find, but I don't think it's as many as 10

Aye, I link to all of them at the bottom. Granted, one is a D&D alignment quiz, but I like collecting trivia. I've got the Autism Quotient, RAADS-R, Aspie Quiz, Alexithymia, Emotional Quotient, a social anxiety one, emotional personal bubble, a comprehensive Jung one, DISC type, and aforementioned D&D alignment. I'm trying to hunt down a good quiz for most common comorbids, but I can't find a good one for AD[H]D or OCD that aren't "classic" examples (I.E., all OCD are germaphobes). SPD doesn't have a quiz yet, dang it.


To put this semi back on track, test scores on common ground like that should make a good enough subject to bond under, methinks. You don't have to be autistic to appreciate routines or have trouble socializing or be an introvert. (Not counting the rare autistic extrovert.)

 

[EdR]

Hi Dryope.

I have learned on this forum that the vast majority of us have what are called masks, mental constructs that are used to hide or disguise undesirable facets of our diagnosis. My personal experience is that I do not consciously don any of my masks, like choosing a tie; rather it is an automatic or unconscious effort.

Nor are any of my masks impervious or perfect disguises. By far and away, the strongest one I have is my work mask, one that allows me to function as a plant manager in a factory. The researches that I've conducted into Aspergers since my diagnosis have allowed me to identify the times when my autistic traits are dominant. Even this awareness is not a perfect barrier, only occasionally permitting me to alter some things after the fact. There seems to be a pattern that activities requiring high concentration are the most common, but not sole, moments when the mask is not active.

So I will theorize that your polar opposite behavior in social and professional situations is related to mask-on, mask-off (to paraphrase The Karate Kid) periods. Without a clue as to the process by which I put on my masks, I am at the limit of my advice. I have been aware for years, even prior to my diagnosis, that my work masks goes on when I start the car in the morning.

Hope this is helpful advice.

 

[paloftoon]

I don't make eye contact a lot, but I'm able to phase it out. I usually have to think about it when I do make eye contact. I just simply don't care cause it's too tiring to care. I will just communicate with the person anyway. I still "get the job" done. so-to-speak. Try to focus on things that are going to help you overcome situations rather than too many things that might be "wrong" with yourself if you can. One thing that has helped me a lot is when I figured and found out that many of the people I've been interacting with have their own social issues or forgetfulness, and that's why I haven't been able to play the "game" well. I know that these kind of people are not dependable, but it doesn't mean they are mean-spirited as I had originally thought.

 

[Dryope]

hi everyone -- thanks so much for your responses! I didn't get the usual email updates for some reason after the first few, so I didn't realize you all had written so much. Thank you!

I got diagnosed with autism last Friday. In the meantime, I had tried to figure out how I could understand the differences I was experiencing in social cognitive functioning. Here is what I am thinking...

The question:

Why can I sometimes interact with people effortlessly and also juggle tasks easily sometimes...and other times I seem to be completely in my head, over-analyzing every little thing and thinking about myself, and also at the same time misunderstand others, misrepresent myself, and get confused doing even simple things?

My Preliminary Research:

I've gone down the rabbit hole a bit on this in PubMed searches, and I wouldn't say that I'm sure I know the answer. But I do know that the "good" state of mind is correlated with spending hours and hours on very slow, deliberate tasks, like organizing and drawing, and the "bad" state of mind is my more common experience, which seems to creep back in as soon as I go back into the world. Basically, if I spend a lot of time alone in deliberative tasks, I get a few hours to days among other people where I am in the "good" state, but this erodes into the "bad" state. This is like the common idea we have that folks with ASD need lots of time with special interests to get over interaction with the outside world.

I first searched on meditation, because that seems to be a similar mental state to the kind I get when I do these deliberative tasks. I found an article from Garrison et al where they hooked up experienced meditators to fMRIs and found that the the state of "undistracted awareness" and being in the moment is associated with deactivation of the posterior cingulate cortex (PCC).

Here is that one: Effortless awareness: using real time neurofeedback to investigate correlates of posterior cingulate cortex activity in meditators' self-report

That led me to an article by Gentili et al that suggested social phobia has to do with an impairment in the default mode network (DMN), including the PCC, leading to a feeling of wariness of others, a focus on the self, and which may prevent individuals from observing external info that could disconfirm their fears.

Here is that one: Beyond amygdala: Default Mode Network activity differs between patients with Social Phobia and healthy controls

Then I found an article by Leech and Sharp that is well worth reading (free full text available). It claims that autistic individuals have abnormalities in the PCC that correlate to severity of symptoms and that ADHD -- often co-morbid with autism -- may be involved with a dysfunction in DMN regulation. Depression adds more factors to this, basically leading to excessive rumination. (It also argues that different parts of the PCC do different things, which gets pretty interesting.)

Here is that one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3891440/#!po=47.9730

So I am now focused on seeing how much I can shift my thinking in my private time to prevent the "bad" state -- essentially practicing things like the N-back test -- the last study mentioned fMRIs show that brains of individuals engaged in the N-back test are active in the areas that the first study mentioned were active during meditation. So I do the N-back test as a kind of biofeedback to train me to recognize that mental state. (Just google "N-back test" if you're interested in trying it out.)

My Hypothesis:

If I spend enough time regularly in this state -- hopefully through drawing with the right mindset rather than the boring N-back test -- then I will train my brain to stay in the "good" state longer, and to return it easier. I don't know if I have a regulatory issue or what, but clearly something is going on. It's almost like thinking gives me a headache and I think constantly -- about myself, about what I'm planning, what I've done, on and on. It's like my thoughts are pounding fists in my head. It's unpleasant, and exactly the kind of thinking (remembering, planning, thinking about the self) as that that the studies above describe as taking place in the DMN -- though I think mine is more problematic than normal brains'. But when I am in the "good" state, I have no need to do this...and I also talk to people without too much drama.

 

[Beverly]

I'm 49, and yes it sounds very familiar. I can socialize but, it is a learned, conscious skill for me, not natural as it is to non ASD people. I can ACT confident, self assured, outgoing, etc... but that is all it is, an act, a cover. How did I learn, trial and error, and lots of experience. I have learned to read a situation and, read people by the way the dress, how they speak and, I am an empath.