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Understanding...But Not

Evil Genius

Evil Genius

We run the world...
V.I.P Member
So I received my official diagnosis after taking on my current job. At the time, I wanted to say something to my job, but my NT wife begged me not to unless I needed to (performance review issues, write ups). So I kept things to myself.

A couple of months after that, I got written up specifically for social issues related to ASD. The short way to put it is that I was causing ripples in company culture, but that is because everyone was looking at me through a NT looking glass and thought I was an ass.

So I have a conversation with my boss about my diagnosis. He is a kind guy who is understanding. Outside of my staff, he is the only other person in the company who seems to have an open enough mind. However, in our most recent conversation, those social issues that there is that ASD black hole that I just can't get across were discussed. I even quoted my therapist so it wasn't sounding like me whining or anything. My boss was understanding, but then countered with "how can I expect the whole company to change".

How do you get past something like this?
 
Evil Genius said:
The short way to put it is that I was causing ripples in company culture, but that is because everyone was looking at me through a NT looking glass and thought I was an ass.

How do you get past something like this?
Click to expand...

What exactly were those "ripples" you were accused of creating regarding company culture?
 
Last edited:
Judge said:
What exactly were those "ripples" you were accused of creating regarding company culture?
Click to expand...

I work and live in one time zone, while 90% of the rest of the company is in offices in another. I was with a group of peers attending something in the next city over in my time zone. They wanted to stop and get lunch at 10:30am. I stated I wasn't going to eat lunch that early, and that restaurants weren't typically open for lunch until 11. They found ONE restaurant that was open. So in a lull after we all got out of the vehicle before we walked in, I was leaning on the car, and one of them opened their big mouth to me about "was I going to wait in the car". I said no, I was waiting for them to go in so I could, too. But I still wasn't going to be eating lunch at 10:30. So they all got back in and we kept going. This was 6 months ago, and apparently, according to my boss, that was more than an incident of the big mouth, that it cast me in a "very bad light" with my peers. All I was doing was stating that places wouldn't be open for lunch, and not everyone in the car was on the same daily schedule (and hoping they would be a little honorable about it). Apparently I wasn't allowed to have a righteous stance on something simple.
 
Sportster said:
I've run into that several times over the years. Not wishing to brag, but I'm a very good employee. I'm always at work on time, never call off, and take very few days off unless I'm getting something carved on. I'm also highly skilled in my trade. However, I've been fired from several jobs because of "personality differences." I don't think they can use that excuse now, but thirty years ago they could.

Over the years I've struggled to monitor my personal behavior and gauge everything I say and do. It's not easy; it takes a lot of work, but it's the only way I've found to get along in the NT world since the corporate world doesn't care if one has a disorder like AS. People like us disrupt their world, so it's easier to get rid of us than it is to change everyone's way of thinking and accept who and how we are.

I've played the AS card just one time and that was because it was a very extreme situation. It helped my cause a little, but not as much as having documented proof (recordings, documented incidents, etc) of how my boss was treating people.
Click to expand...

Sportster, similar stories here, except prior to this job, those "personality differences" fueled distractions that cause me to stumble on some aspects of those jobs. I played the AS card in my current situation because what they want to string me up for is directly attributable to my AS. That, as well as I was dismissed from one job, and resigned in lieu of contract non-renewal from another in the past decade. That's two out of three jobs since my NT wife and I have been married that I've been sent packing on. She'd be stressed if I told her what is truly going on.
 
I think it has to do with corporate "team" expectations.

If the people are your rank or lower, you can be a bit more honest. If you are with people who you are expected to "host" in some way, or who outrank you, a great deal of "kissing behind" is demanded.

I know you were just being honest. But many other people think stating facts is a rude act.

In this case, the mere fact that they outnumbered you meant what they collectively thought was more important than actual Reality, represented by You.
 
This is what I get from your story:
  • Your co-workers want to have lunch out at 10.30 am.
  • You say 'too early for me'.
  • They scour the town for a place that's actually serving lunch that early (because you were all in the car already for something probably unrelated).
  • They eventually happen across a place that serves lunch before actual lunchtime.
  • You wait for the rest of them to get out of the car at said place, and someone feels called on to ask you if you're going to wait in the car.
  • You point out the obvious: no. Just not having lunch.
  • They collectively get pissy and report you to your higher-ups.
My take:
  • You have a right to say you're not hungry and are not eating, whatever the time. Your not-eating hurt no one.

  • It sounds like you went in with them. The normal thing to do then would be to have a non-alcoholic beverage of choice while they had their precious lunch. If someone has a problem with that, it is they who are out of line. They do not get to dictate your nutrition intake.

  • Reporting someone to their boss for not eating is ridiculous. The person reporting it should be made aware of that when they report it. That this didn't happen and that an issue was made of it by your boss/es tells me there's a management problem. Management problems cannot usually be solved by reasonable means, only walked away from.

  • If there's an issue to make, it's first with your co-workers wasting time on their search for a place that serves lunch in the morning. That's inefficent and uneconomic. You're out at work and you're hungry at an inopportune time, you make do with what's in reach - and even that's a privilege. More normally you just wait until an actual break arrives or you go hungry until you clock out. Teaches you to bring something next time. That goes for flexible jobs too - everything else indicates a lack of self-discipline, and self-discipline is doubly important when you're trusting people to get their work done without anyone constantly looking over their shoulder.

  • You were not being unreasonable in the first place. You acted according to the schedule of the time zone you were in. Your co-workers, on the other hand, failed to make provisions for changing time zones (by one measly hour) and created a scene about it. This does not reflect well on their planning skills, their time management and their social skills.
I think they pulled a classic DARVO on you. And your management let them. This has nothing to do with AS. This has to do with toxic company culture and inefficient and entitled staff.
 
HappyHermit said:
I think they pulled a classic DARVO on you. And your management let them. This has nothing to do with AS. This has to do with toxic company culture and inefficient and entitled staff.
Click to expand...

While I agree, it has nothing to do with the problem.

Corporate culture wants everyone to get along, since actual management skills are rare and they cannot rely on them. That is why they love "team players" and enforce consensus at all costs.

If Evil Genius wants to keep this job, they will have to at least pretend to care about these stupid social rules.
 
The script I would use would be this:

"Sorry about that, boss, I didn't know a place open that early, but now if I have a group this will solve their hungry problem."
 
Is it possible that they simply did not like how you told them you were not eating? Perhaps if this situation arises again, make no statements of intent. Simply go along with everything and when the time comes to order, simply have a glass of water. If anyone inquires, tell them you are not hungry. Simple. When you say to NT people that you are not participating in some way, they tend to think it is because of them and not the reasons you state.
 
midlife aspie said:
Simply go along with everything and when the time comes to order, simply have a glass of water.... When you say to NT people that you are not participating in some way, they tend to think it is because of them and not the reasons you state.
Click to expand...

This has worked for me in family situations.
By sitting with them and drinking water when it wasn't
my time to eat, no one could get bent out of shape and
say that I 'never want to be part of anything.'
 
I will add that there is one exception to my approach, and that is when someone labors to prepare the meal. In this case, eat something and at least pretend to enjoy it!
 
tree said:
What specific things would the company have
to do differently toward you? What examples
of that can you give?
Click to expand...

Having to explain that I'm not being an ass, that I am just stating things. My wife still struggles with understanding that as well.
 
I guess that would be quite an intolerable
hardship for management, to have to point
out that sometimes people are just saying
what they are saying, that there are no
implications involved, and that nobody
has to get all butt-hurt over it.

It would be revolutionary, apparently.
 
HappyHermit said:
This is what I get from your story:
  • Your co-workers want to have lunch out at 10.30 am.
  • You say 'too early for me'.
  • They scour the town for a place that's actually serving lunch that early (because you were all in the car already for something probably unrelated).
  • They eventually happen across a place that serves lunch before actual lunchtime.
  • You wait for the rest of them to get out of the car at said place, and someone feels called on to ask you if you're going to wait in the car.
  • You point out the obvious: no. Just not having lunch.
  • They collectively get pissy and report you to your higher-ups.
My take:
  • You have a right to say you're not hungry and are not eating, whatever the time. Your not-eating hurt no one.

  • It sounds like you went in with them. The normal thing to do then would be to have a non-alcoholic beverage of choice while they had their precious lunch. If someone has a problem with that, it is they who are out of line. They do not get to dictate your nutrition intake.

  • Reporting someone to their boss for not eating is ridiculous. The person reporting it should be made aware of that when they report it. That this didn't happen and that an issue was made of it by your boss/es tells me there's a management problem. Management problems cannot usually be solved by reasonable means, only walked away from.

  • If there's an issue to make, it's first with your co-workers wasting time on their search for a place that serves lunch in the morning. That's inefficent and uneconomic. You're out at work and you're hungry at an inopportune time, you make do with what's in reach - and even that's a privilege. More normally you just wait until an actual break arrives or you go hungry until you clock out. Teaches you to bring something next time. That goes for flexible jobs too - everything else indicates a lack of self-discipline, and self-discipline is doubly important when you're trusting people to get their work done without anyone constantly looking over their shoulder.

  • You were not being unreasonable in the first place. You acted according to the schedule of the time zone you were in. Your co-workers, on the other hand, failed to make provisions for changing time zones (by one measly hour) and created a scene about it. This does not reflect well on their planning skills, their time management and their social skills.
I think they pulled a classic DARVO on you. And your management let them. This has nothing to do with AS. This has to do with toxic company culture and inefficient and entitled staff.
Click to expand...


Our collective manager was with us and said nothing. I would have said nothing at the restaurant, but the one guy opened his big mouth. Our collective manager just told me a few days ago (6 months later) that he believes I was in the wrong and didn't want to listen to anything else about it.
 
WereBear said:
While I agree, it has nothing to do with the problem.

Corporate culture wants everyone to get along, since actual management skills are rare and they cannot rely on them. That is why they love "team players" and enforce consensus at all costs.

If Evil Genius wants to keep this job, they will have to at least pretend to care about these stupid social rules.
Click to expand...


I just wanted acknowledgement. Preferred moving lunch time to actual lunch, but acknowledgement at least. But apparently I rocked the boat and made myself look bad to people.
 
midlife aspie said:
Is it possible that they simply did not like how you told them you were not eating? Perhaps if this situation arises again, make no statements of intent. Simply go along with everything and when the time comes to order, simply have a glass of water. If anyone inquires, tell them you are not hungry. Simple. When you say to NT people that you are not participating in some way, they tend to think it is because of them and not the reasons you state.
Click to expand...

But at the point of most contention, I was keeping my mouth shut. The mouthy guy didn't have to open his mouth. The manager should have opened his mouth sooner. And they didn't have to pack back up, just keep walking and I would've followed.
 
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