What are the strongest arguments in favour of ABA?

[Greatshield17]

For my study of ABA, I want to get the strongest arguments in defence of it; so far the strongest argument I’ve seen in defence of it is that it sometimes works well, without the Autistic child being traumatized; (I’m thinking of entitling the next entry in my blog series “The Ends Don’t Justify The Means”) what are some arguments you’ve heard, and which are the strongest?

 

[Gerontius]

Forget about arguments.
It takes a different philosophy, a different understanding of human existence. You have to be a utilitarian to believe ABA is the answer, because to support ABA means to believe that humans are of no value unless they're useful in the social system/don't inconvenience anybody.

 

[Judge]

For my study of ABA, I want to get the strongest arguments in defence of it; so far the strongest argument I’ve seen in defence of it is that it sometimes works well, without the Autistic child being traumatized; (I’m thinking of entitling the next entry in my blog series “The Ends Don’t Justify The Means”) what are some arguments you’ve heard, and which are the strongest?

Seriously, you should solicit an entirely different audience for that particular question. Otherwise IMO it's tantamount to appealing to the NAACP soliciting arguments favoring a repeal of the 13th Amendment. -Slavery.

 

[Mary Terry]

It worked well for my nephew and he loved to go to therapy so I assume he was not traumatized. If he had not had ABA, I don't think he would have learned as early as he did such things as potty training, brushing his teeth, swallowing pills, not to take off his clothing and masturbate in public and many other things that his parents apparently did not or could not teach him. He was very oppositional to his mother who also is on the spectrum, and I don't think she had the ability and/or interest to teach him some very basic things. She treated him like an infant instead of in a manner appropriate for his age at all stages. I taught him how to get a glass of ice water for himself, how to make a sandwich, how to use a knife, fork and spoon instead of eating everything with his fingers, how to access Wikipedia, how to operate the television and many other things because his mother did not. She treated him like he was retarded, could not learn, and had zero patience with him. His pediatrician ordered her on threat of turning her over to the child protective services to stop breastfeeding him when he was five years old.

So ABA was very good for my nephew.

Sometimes children respond better to strangers/counselors than to their own parents. The counselor, of course, must be capable and sensitive to the needs of the child and how each particular child best learns. There is never a reason to traumatize any child.

 

[rach3rd]

I don’t know much about it to be honest. I just know from the limited reactions I’ve read from autistic people that it is almost universally disliked. One aspect of ABA I read about I think was called exposure therapy. You are supposed to gradually expose yourself to something that causes your anxiety. Sounds a little bit like the “What About Bob” movie to me. “Baby steps to the elevator”, etc.

 

[Gerontius]

I don’t know much about it to be honest. I just know from the limited reactions I’ve read from autistic people that it is almost universally disliked. One aspect of ABA I read about I think was called exposure therapy. You are supposed to gradually expose yourself to something that causes your anxiety. Sounds a little bit like the “What About Bob” movie to me. “Baby steps to the elevator”, etc.

This is also an element in talk therapies such as CBT, at least what I saw in counseling. Discuss things so you learn how something "isn't a threat" I guess works pretty good.

 

[Greatshield17]

I don’t know much about it to be honest. I just know from the limited reactions I’ve read from autistic people that it is almost universally disliked. One aspect of ABA I read about I think was called exposure therapy. You are supposed to gradually expose yourself to something that causes your anxiety. Sounds a little bit like the “What About Bob” movie to me. “Baby steps to the elevator”, etc.

As I mentioned above, I’m studying it myself and doing a blog series on what I’m finding, here’s my first entry: ABA Under The Microscope: Part 1: Introduction

 

[Alexej]

Have a look at BF Skinner - whose philosophy underlies a lot of ABA.

 

[Martha Ferris]

What are you using for resources?
Treatment and Intervention Services for Autism Spectrum Disorder | NCBDDD | CDC
[URL='https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapy-types/applied-behavior-analysis']Applied Behavior Analysis | Psychology Today[/URL]

I have found a variety of opinions by psychologists on line but they may be biased. I would research using critical thinking skills before accepting them as authoritative. Also each article must post supported references.

 

[Magna]

The experience I've had with ABA is limited to a niece going through Lovaas style ABA for years when she was young. Her mom wanted her to learn as best she could to be like she was NT (e.g. fit in with other kids, act like them rather than act autistic). It was behavior modification for sure. Did it help? I'm not really sure. I was uncomfortable at the time watching them because her mom would interrupt my niece who was trying to communicate and would tell her to make eye contact. I didn't care at all if my niece was making eye contact with me when she was talking.

 

[Mary Terry]

I don’t know much about it to be honest. I just know from the limited reactions I’ve read from autistic people that it is almost universally disliked. One aspect of ABA I read about I think was called exposure therapy. You are supposed to gradually expose yourself to something that causes your anxiety. Sounds a little bit like the “What About Bob” movie to me. “Baby steps to the elevator”, etc.

Yes, that's true. I remember that one of the things my nephew's therapist did with him was to get him to put his hands into a big pile of foamy shaving cream. He apparently hated anything with that texture but gradually introducing him to it helped him overcome his aversion to it.

 

[Kit]

When I first read about it, it sounded like something I had growing up. You get rewards for certain behaviors and this one kid who wrote a book would earn chips and I felt envious of him because he had it 24/7 and I didn't. I had to wait till therapy to get rewards. He got to earn them all the time. How lucky lol

 

[Greatshield17]

A lot of people argue that because aversives or punishments have been removed from ABA, that it’s now somehow better; but I can see a lot of problems with that, primarily, that it’s still a degrading and dehumanizing way to treat an Autistic person. What are some other problems you can see with this argument in defense of ABA?

 

[Mary Terry]

A lot of people argue that because aversives or punishments have been removed from ABA, that it’s now somehow better; but I can see a lot of problems with that, primarily, that it’s still a degrading and dehumanizing way to treat an Autistic person. What are some other problems you can see with this argument in defense of ABA?

With respect to children who strip off their clothes and masturbate in the grocery store or who touch women on the breast or rear end at the grocery store, which is more "degrading and dehumanizing"?

Getting ABA therapy to control behaviors and teach discipline?

Or when the store calls the police and the child is arrested and sent to a juvenile facility for sexual assault? Or when an assaulted woman spins around and slaps the aggressive autistic to the floor (happened to my nephew and seemed to have a lasting affect on him in that he no longer touches strangers).

Which is worse?

Sometimes ABA is better. It requires a good therapist. Not an abuser.

 

[Kit]

I once read a thread thread by someone who is on the autism spectrum and she had to quit her job because a customer with severe autism and intellectual impairment sexually assaulted her and no one did anything about it and even the store owner made her out to be the bad guy when she wanted to press charges.

I mean it infuriates me when people let children with disabilities do inappropriate touch. People in that thread mentioned how they volunteered at places for those with intellectual impairments and lot of them were registered sex offenders.

Okay Karen just because Johnny has the mental age of a 6 year old does not mean the judge will go easy on him. He will still have him be registered as a sex offender because he wants to protect women so they stay away from him since he doesn't have the mental compacity to understand his actions since you failed on your part as a parent to teach him appropriate touch. I have no sympathy for parents who are affected by their adult child being registered as a sex offender. Do your share as a parent and teach them when they are young.

Also don't forget if an autistic person is aggressive, they need to learn when they are young to not be aggressive or they could end up being charged with assault or going to juvi hall or being charged with domestic abuse if their partner decides to press charges or their neighbor. So ABA it is.

 

[Greatshield17]

With respect to children who strip off their clothes and masturbate in the grocery store or who touch women on the breast or rear end at the grocery store, which is more "degrading and dehumanizing"?

Getting ABA therapy to control behaviors and teach discipline?

Or when the store calls the police and the child is arrested and sent to a juvenile facility for sexual assault? Or when an assaulted woman spins around and slaps the aggressive autistic to the floor (happened to my nephew and seemed to have a lasting affect on him in that he no longer touches strangers).

Which is worse?

Sometimes ABA is better. It requires a good therapist. Not an abuser.

I once read a thread thread by someone who is on the autism spectrum and she had to quit her job because a customer with severe autism and intellectual impairment sexually assaulted her and no one did anything about it and even the store owner made her out to be the bad guy when she wanted to press charges.

I mean it infuriates me when people let children with disabilities do inappropriate touch. People in that thread mentioned how they volunteered at places for those with intellectual impairments and lot of them were registered sex offenders.

Okay Karen just because Johnny has the mental age of a 6 year old does not mean the judge will go easy on him. He will still have him be registered as a sex offender because he wants to protect women so they stay away from him since he doesn't have the mental compacity to understand his actions since you failed on your part as a parent to teach him appropriate touch. I have no sympathy for parents who are affected by their adult child being registered as a sex offender. Do your share as a parent and teach them when they are young.

Also don't forget if an autistic person is aggressive, they need to learn when they are young to not be aggressive or they could end up being charged with assault or going to juvi hall or being charged with domestic abuse if their partner decides to press charges or their neighbor. So ABA it is.

Registered sex offender eh? Well read THIS why don’t you?!: Are there any psychologists here?

 

[Mary Terry]

That's interesting hearsay, @Greatshield. But probably a one in one million situation, if it is even true. I find it hard to believe a professional, licensed therapist would steer a young child to internet porn but I guess anything can happen. That autistic person's designation as a sex offender for kiddie porn is appalling, isn't it? Do you know if that person's criminal defense included the assertion that a counselor told him use kiddie porn for sexual pleasure? If so, the Judge apparently rolled his eyes and disregarded "the devil made me do it" defense.

You asked for input about benefits of ABA, and, as a person with personal knowledge of ABA for my nephew, I responded to you. If you really didn't want information about potential benefits and your intention was always to condemn ABA, then that was a disingenuous way to do it.

My points are simple:

1. ABA can be done humanely.
2. ABA can teach children how to exist in the real world so those children are not degraded and dehumanized by society at large for their actions that society considers criminal or harmful in nature.

It is a tough choice for parents to decide how best to teach their child how to avoid danger and how to prevent the child from harming others. Many parents fail, as did the parents of the person in your story who ended up labeled as a sex offender for exploiting children for sexual purposes. Who's at fault? The autistic person? His parents? His therapist? Or all of them? Deeper analysis is needed. Maybe that guy was just a pervert who also happened to be autistic. The two are not mutually exclusive.

My nephew is now about 30 years old, and he still whispers the word "discipline" to himself to help him control his impulses. He learned to do that in ABA many, many years ago. Now that may violate some tenet of Catholicism but bear in mind that the outrageous sexual exploitation of children by the Catholic church suggests massive hypocrisy. Too bad those priests didn't learn "discipline" before they started raping and abusing children entrusted to their care. Citing to anything Catholic in the context of child sex abuse carries no weight for most people. It's a lack of credibility problem, as I'm sure you understand.

 

[Greatshield17]

That's interesting hearsay, @Greatshield. But probably a one in one million situation, if it is even true. I find it hard to believe a professional, licensed therapist would steer a young child to internet porn but I guess anything can happen. That autistic person's designation as a sex offender for kiddie porn is appalling, isn't it? Do you know if that person's criminal defense included the assertion that a counselor told him use kiddie porn for sexual pleasure? If so, the Judge apparently rolled his eyes and disregarded "the devil made me do it" defense.

You asked for input about benefits of ABA, and, as a person with personal knowledge of ABA for my nephew, I responded to you. If you really didn't want information about potential benefits and your intention was always to condemn ABA, then that was a disingenuous way to do it.

My points are simple:

1. ABA can be done humanely.
2. ABA can teach children how to exist in the real world so those children are not degraded and dehumanized by society at large for their actions that society considers criminal or harmful in nature.

It is a tough choice for parents to decide how best to teach their child how to avoid danger and how to prevent the child from harming others. Many parents fail, as did the parents of the person in your story who ended up labeled as a sex offender for exploiting children for sexual purposes. Who's at fault? The autistic person? His parents? His therapist? Or all of them? Deeper analysis is needed. Maybe that guy was just a pervert who also happened to be autistic. The two are not mutually exclusive.

My nephew is now about 30 years old, and he still whispers the word "discipline" to himself to help him control his impulses. He learned to do that in ABA many, many years ago. Now that may violate some tenet of Catholicism but bear in mind that the outrageous sexual exploitation of children by the Catholic church suggests massive hypocrisy. Too bad those priests didn't learn "discipline" before they started raping and abusing children entrusted to their care. Citing to anything Catholic in the context of child sex abuse carries no weight for most people. It's a lack of credibility problem, as I'm sure you understand.

Yes, I did ask for information in defence of ABA, and all you did was provide me with one story about your nephew and his bad mother in defence of it, without going into any detail about how ABA is works in positive way for Autistic children; I also can’t help but notice that you didn’t provide any helpful information on the other thread about ABA where I got much more useful information about than I did from you on this thread! So you can dismiss my story as “hearsay” but I MUST blindly accept your story as dogmatic FACT that ABA is good or else I just want to blindly condemn ABA as bad; that makes sense. And as for bringing up the Church’s sex abuse scandal, well I may remember that, and I may use those same fallacies tactics against you in the future if we get into an argument again on here.

 

[Greatshield17]

When I ask for strong arguments in favour of ABA, I want logical, objective in-depth arguments in favour of it; don’t give me subjective, circumstantial arguments and then yell and rant at me when I don’t buy them!
(The same goes for the other side too by the way)

 

[Mary Terry]

When I ask for strong arguments in favour of ABA, I want logical, objective in-depth arguments in favour of it; don’t give me subjective, circumstantial arguments and then yell and rant at me when I don’t buy them!
(The same goes for the other side too by the way)

I doubt anyone who participates on this forum can provide you with the information you now clarify that you want. A psychologist or psychiatrist could better provide you with what you are seeking. Input from lay people such as myself, even with personal knowledge of the good that came from my nephew's ABA experience, is not sufficient for your goals. A couple of links to informative resources are posted above in another person's comment.

It was so much kinder for my nephew to have ABA to stop him from groping women in public places than being slapped so hard on his face by the woman he assaulted that he hit the floor in a grocery store, with a look of utter shock and awe on his face. He has never done that again so I guess that form of behavior modification worked exceptionally well for him. It was quite violent and that woman had no knowledge of his disability. She did exactly what most other women would do under the circumstances, including myself. If ABA can prevent a single autistic from getting hit, punched, shot, arrested, or otherwise hurt by someone they grossly offend, then that is a good thing, IMHO.