What Is A Win?

[Gomendosi]

I see this mentality all over the place now, people claiming they won an argument because the other party left the conversation or the other person can’t explain themselves well enough or somebody lacks sufficient evidence to hand to corroborate their point or… they just grow weary of you and give up.

None of these things should be viewed as a “win”, even if you come to a stand still and the issue remains unresolved but you both agree to take your energies elsewhere, how is that a win.

To win implies there was a competition! And besides, perhaps you were the only person arguing?

This confuses me because I try to engage with other people to further my own knowledge or to achieve an understanding with that person but it seems that other people consider every interaction as a win-loss scenario and obviously to win is the aim, but I have to wonder, this mentality must surely close your mind from the very beginning though, right?




Anybody is free to discuss this topic as there are no right or wrong answers and if anybody makes you feel like you are losing this conversation, examine their motives… hehehe
(Just kidding, you’re all winners)

 

[Harrison]

This confuses me because I try to engage with other people to further my own knowledge or to achieve an understanding with that person but it seems that other people consider every interaction as a win-loss scenario and obviously to win is the aim, but I have to wonder, this mentality must surely close your mind from the very beginning though, right?)

I will walk away from a discussion or debate when someone draws a line in the sand, because their fixed viewpoint is no longer debatable. I don't care if they class that as a 'win' or not.

If I want an argument I will find one in the real world where I can savour it with all my senses, as that type of aggresive posturing deserves my full presence.

 

[Spiller]

I try to engage with other people to further my own knowledge or to achieve an understanding with that person but it seems that other people consider every interaction as a win-loss scenario and obviously to win is the aim, but I have to wonder, this mentality must surely close your mind from the very beginning though, right?

Agreed! How can you have a discussion, inform/be informed, compromise or revise your opinion and knowledge if the other person refuses to budge on their point of view?
I just go quiet and withdraw in these situations.

that type of aggresive posturing deserves my full presence.

Harrison, does this mean you enjoy a good row then?

 

[Harrison]

Harrison, does this mean you enjoy a good row then?

I have been known to sit quietly whilst someone rants for England, then I smile and sometimes all hell breaks loose. Does that count?

 

[Spiller]

I have been known to sit quietly whilst someone rants for England, then I smile and sometimes all hell breaks loose. Does that count?

Would that be your Jeremy Irons look-a-like fighting smile?


Or

 

[Harrison]

Would that be your Jeremy Irons look-a-like fighting smile?

View attachment 14032
Or
View attachment 14033

Apparently it's more of a smirky Bruce Willis smile (so I'm told) but I like the Jeremy Irons one

 

[Spiller]

Apparently it's more of a smirky Bruce Willis smile (so I'm told) but I like the Jeremy Irons one

I've almost been involved in a couple of fights in pubs for no reason I could discern.. misinterpretation of my facial expression possibly?
Would this count as the other person wanting to win a non-verbal argument, considering that NT communication consists of only 7% verbal content? (Attempt to crowbar Gomendosi's thread back on track, yet make a valid contribution )

 

[Harrison]

I've almost been involved in a couple of fights in pubs for no reason I could discern.. misinterpretation of my facial expression possibly?
Would this count as the other person wanting to win a non-verbal argument, considering that NT communication consists of only 7% verbal content? (Attempt to crowbar Gomendosi's thread back on track, yet make a valid contribution )

I would think so, yes.

 

[Christy]

Agreed! How can you have a discussion, inform/be informed, compromise or revise your opinion and knowledge if the other person refuses to budge on their point of view?
I just go quiet and withdraw in these situations.

I think you can easily discuss with a person their point of view even when they're unwilling to change it, unless your goal is to have them change it. In which case, it does become a win/lose situation for you even though the other has not engaged as such.
(Not you specificially Spiller, you as in the general sence).

I'm seeing it a lot too Gomendosi. The common tactic I'm seeing is where a statement of opinion is attacked on all different levels in the attempt to have one of them stick to undermine the opinion. Then when the person defends their opinion and "offends" the others for not having changed it, it looks like they are the aggressor. It's why I'm predominantly sticking to blogs now. I'm not interested in having my opinion changed by another person because that's what they decide I should think. I will change my mind when I'm ready to and based on information I am comfortable with.

 

[tree]

 

[zurb]

A perceived 'win' can be cultural. I was until recently living in a culture where silence indicated disagreement. Another fairly insensitive expat came from a culture where silence means agreement. I can see some clashes coming where both sides think they won!