What is life like without education and employment?

[Geordie]

I am thinking,

If there is no demand for us to go to school or earn for a living, and every claims welfare benefits that is enough to get through life, what will be our life like?

 

[King_Oni]

Oh, this is a discussion I had with a therapist about 10 years ago. It seems that in Holland they did research on it back in the 70's. They actually calculated if it would be cheaper to give everyone welfare up to the bare minimum and if you wanted "luxury" or extra's, you'd have to get employed. It would actually be cheaper to have everyone live like they hardly got by and had their own "motivation" as the engine to actually have "more", instead of giving the unemployed welfare where they can actually afford more than just groceries.

The downside, and practical application apparently was, a lot of people settled with practically nothing, and thus almost no one would get off their asses and get to work because people though "oh well... why should I?" It would be problem where people didn't even work in supermarkets, in public transport, the policeforce would be smaller (if even non-existent), stuff like that, which is were the real problem showed.

I am quite a fan of a lot of post-apocalyptic fiction, so that sort of "world" looks appealing in a way. I've even had therapists and the like tell me "that would be the ideal world for you to live in" because it doesn't revolve that much about rules, about social convenience, it shows how resourceful you actually are as means of survival and the bleak perspective kinda settles in with most of how I view the world either way. I'm not saying I do steal or have stolen anything in the past, but stuff like that, it doesn't really bother me too much as means to get by when I actually think of it. It's a totally different deal than being homeless, because those are actually still "in" a "functioning" world. The same argument which is about "well, move to a third world country and see how you can get along" is stupid, because I would be isolating myself deliberately and I wouldn't be leveling the worldwide playing field. Besides, cultural changes from other countries do not make up for a good "mix n match" if they're out of the blue.

Also, a thing is... education. How? Do you mean by means of a degree? Or do you mean just by the "ability" to be educated? I always think it's funny if people tell me "I don't want to be dependant, so I get a degree", to where I state "well, you are still dependant on how much value they put in you having that degree". I've had people get depressed and cry over me taking that stance... with that I do mean, if you are aiming for a degree, good, but if there is no employment in that field, what good did that education have? I had little "serious" education by formal means, but I can still learn and educate myself through books, the internet and stuff like that. I might even know more about certain stuff in the field than "professionals" and I probably didn't spend 4 years in mastering the theory on it, yet because I am more efficient, I'm not able to get a hold of a degree so it seems.

Another thing that comes to mind is if people aren't educated further, as opposed to people just not have knowledge. That's a difference. Even with no employment, people might still have the knowledge to repair a car because they leaned that. Where it would be a different deal if there was no information on how to repair cars and people just had to try by "trial and error". Kind of a big difference.

If people could claim social benefits and not work, wouldn't there be the danger of people not realizing they might spend it wrong? It kinda seems "common sense" on how to spend most of your money, but wouldn't people be more reckless by means of "meh, I'm getting my new check next month". Also, where would people live? I can't get a mortgage with benefits and some landlords don't even rent to people with benefits. If you have a home and the situation changes to everyone on welfare and you can still pay your mortgage and all, that's no problem, but some people will get evicted because they can't pay up and will eventually have problem in getting a new home.

If there was no employment and education, what about social services? Electricity, water, gas? Should we all become scientists and build our own solar panels, dig our own trench for water and drill for our own gas? I'm actually all for that, but not everyone is that bright and has all resources to do so. On the "bright" thing... without the social safety of education and employment, not by means of money, some people will eventually revert into being primates, because they need this kind of structure to adhere to and be told what to do.

 

[Geordie]

Also, a thing is... education. How? Do you mean by means of a degree? Or do you mean just by the "ability" to be educated? I always think it's funny if people tell me "I don't want to be dependant, so I get a degree", to where I state "well, you are still dependant on how much value they put in you having that degree".

Let's take things one step at a time.

You're right, King_Oni, some of us are in degree courses so that we won't be dependant. Some of us just dislikes being paid for the services we do. But they make the degree, social security etc a dependant of our life - not totally our beings.

I was thinking whether a life of just loafing, social security with no work will actually be bad for most people - but, with the exception of internally motivated people who do not work, but to do some other things other than work -

Where would people live? Well assuming social security covering the cost of accomodation in a poor suburb or housing estate, with other people on the dole, where else can they really live?

As for utilities like water, gas, heat, basic telephone services, etc... Yep, some people who just can't or are unable to find work (due to persistent unemployment by economic restructuring, people with severe mental illnesses but are stable enough to stay at home) and have no motivation may need these to keep themselves content.

Maybe what I thought was utopian thinking...

But at the same time, this still leaves me with no good answer. I am still thinking of this:

"On the "bright" thing... without the social safety of education and employment, not by means of money, some people will eventually revert into being primates, because they need this kind of structure to adhere to and be told what to do."

Is this something that we, humanity, want for ourselves?

 

[King_Oni]

While your thought might be a utopia, it does make up for a nice thread to think about

You're stating that humanity as a whole kinda wants to be "structured"? Or are you questioning if that actually is what we want?

I don't think we want it, but some people can't really "live" without said structure. And I'm not even talking people with a disabilility. Even "normal" people usually crave for far more structure than what I think is "good" because it's easy and less time-consuming to worry about the small things.

 

[Geordie]

Indeed...

Wouldn't it be nice if we have the means to really think of the bigger things than life?

But alas, we will have to swim in the sea of education and employment