What is the purpose of spoken language?

[Xinyta]

I know. The knee jerk response is to say something like "To communicate" or "To make communication easier".

Honestly. Spoken word, in any language, requires so much forethought. Especailly if it's a language other than the one you speak. Which just feels like it only exists to serve as a barrier, more than anything else.

I feel like the idea of spoken language, divides us and creates more confusion. That there has to be a better way to connect. Especially for us ND folks.

I feel natural human creativity, is a language. In all it's forms. How we present ourselves. How we act. How we respond to things. It all speaks without speaking. To connect in ways that do not require words, but understanding of the soul. Understanding of the self, as well as the understanding of others through spiritual senses.

I think about the words I use now and wonder about them. What are these lines and symbols we use? Do have a meaning, beyond whatever meaning we interpret collectively? Do our names have a purpose? Or is it merely identification? What are we identifying? The soul, or the body?

Neither need it.

In truth. I feel that while it took creativity to form language. The purpose is limited. And it requires things that can exclude and remove people. Hurt people. Create chaos out of mere tones.

There are many constructs, that are part of man's doing. But so many more, that are not.

But maybe I am thinking too deeply about something that doesn't require that much thought...

I just keep wondering if these words we read and speak, mean remotely close to what we think they do. Or if it all is just actually without meaning.

I suppose it is up to interpretation and perspective. We do make meaning in things.

 

[daniegirl6224]

Makes me think about my dog we connect on a soul level, no words are needed and it is beautiful

 

[Judge]

Sometimes these subjects remind me of a unique fictional story ("Mute") written by Rod Serling and Richard Matheson for the show, "The Twilight Zone". An episode that centered around an orphaned girl whose parents were lost in a house fire. What made the story so unique was that the parents were part of a secretive group of people who were all engaged in the development of non-verbal telepathic communication.

And that this girl placed in a home not only had to adjust to a new family and country, but also placed into a society of people whose primary method of communication was the spoken word.

It ends with the girl "breaking" and adapting to speaking rather than telepathically communicating with no one who could "hear" her thoughts. But in doing so, she finally began to integrate into the world of speaking people. -A bittersweet ending.

 

[Outdated]

Humans are not the only animals to have a spoken language but what sets us apart is both the extent of that language and the ability to turn that language in to a series of abstract markings be they on a computer screen or on a cave wall.

More primitive animals can only learn by watching others of their own species where as we can read and learn lessons from people that we've never met and even from people that have been dead for hundreds of years.

Try teaching someone the basics of nuclear physics without the benefit of spoken or written words.

 

[FayetheAspie]

I know. The knee jerk response is to say something like "To communicate" or "To make communication easier".

Honestly. Spoken word, in any language, requires so much forethought. Especailly if it's a language other than the one you speak. Which just feels like it only exists to serve as a barrier, more than anything else.

I feel like the idea of spoken language, divides us and creates more confusion. That there has to be a better way to connect. Especially for us ND folks.

Some neurodivergent people have the opposite struggle; knowing when to shut up. This is especially true for those who have hyperactive/impulsive ADHD in the mix. It can be like actively concentrating on making sure you stay quite. Not getting to talk can have a negative impact on mood. I understand that some people have speech difficulties and I understand that it must be difficult to have to struggle to find words or to be incapable of communicating verbally; however, saying speech should not exist sounds like saying that nobody should ever walk because some people need wheelchairs.

 

[DavyBoyAB]

I feel that we all have something common and probably trying reinventing the thing that is already belongs to us, When we feel the pain in a moment of it we all say: Ouch, Aj, Oi, e.t.c. very similar and simple word that belong to us from our birth and nobody taught us to say, so language is already within us and we do only construct it in more complicated forms differently, that's why we've made different languages, and now as part of our culture - we protect it in order to defend our independence and uniqueness as countries.

Some languages could be united in a single one, because we inherit it from one root system and it seen in the very common words like: Day, Dag, Dagur, Tag, День (Den'), or Sun, Sol, Солнце (Solnce), so these words are common to most European language groups, but when we're talking about totally different and isolated cultures... we have things like Chinese and Japanese that not belongs to anything we know and it is almost impossible to unite people who are not share with us at least a word....

We had several attempts to create a global language for everyone, some of them designed for simpleness like: Tokipona, and some of them designed in the name of union: Esperanto.

I think that in future we will be able to share our thoughts directly as they are through neurolinks or something else that we will made so we will lose verbal form of communication and then words as itself, or they will never be limited by our ability of pronounciation, and will not be based on sound but on ideas, and in that kind - ideas as forms of visualization - ideographic languages is one step forward us.

 

[Xinyta]

Some neurodivergent people have the opposite struggle; knowing when to shut up. This is especially true for those who have hyperactive/impulsive ADHD in the mix. It can be like actively concentrating on making sure you stay quite. Not getting to talk can have a negative impact on mood. I understand that some people have speech difficulties and I understand that it must be difficult to have to struggle to find words or to be incapable of communicating verbally; however, saying speech should not exist sounds like saying that nobody should ever walk because some people need wheelchairs.

I didn't mean no one should speak ever. That wasn't the intention of this, and I apologize for coming off that way.

But the point I am trying to make is more about questioning the fundamentals of spoken language. What is it all about?

Especially with something like American English, where there is a who bunch of exceptions, alt meanings, and caveats to how our language is used. Then add unspoken, unwritten, socail rules to that. It's built in such a way that serves to be exclusionary of those who may not understand as well.

I personally think that, while talking isn't bad. It's not the most effective for of communication. That we will get more from other methods.

Granted. @Outdated made a very valid finishing statement about teaching things, like Nuclear Physics.

I feel that we all have something common and probably trying reinventing the thing that is already belongs to us, When we feel the pain in a moment of it we all say: Ouch, Aj, Oi, e.t.c. very similar and simple word that belong to us from our birth and nobody taught us to say, so language is already within us and we do only construct it in more complicated forms differently, that's why we've made different languages, and now as part of our culture - we protect it in order to defend our independence and uniqueness as countries.

Some languages could be united in a single one, because we inherit it from one root system and it seen in the very common words like: Day, Dag, Dagur, Tag, День (Den'), or Sun, Sol, Солнце (Solnce), so these words are common to most European language groups, but when we're talking about totally different and isolated cultures... we have things like Chinese and Japanese that not belongs to anything we know and it is almost impossible to unite people who are not share with us at least a word....

We had several attempts to create a global language for everyone, some of them designed for simpleness like: Tokipona, and some of them designed in the name of union: Esperanto.

I think that in future we will be able to share our thoughts directly as they are through neurolinks or something else that we will made so we will lose verbal form of communication and then words as itself, or they will never be limited by our ability of pronounciation, and will not be based on sound but on ideas, and in that kind - ideas as forms of visualization - ideographic languages is one step forward us.

I agree that trying to do something like this right now is a mess. I realize that what I am thinking about does fall into the realm of fantasy, to some degree.

But I do think visual methods can help change communication in some way. I've always seen art as something creating world from the soul of it's creator. That it can speak volumes of the inner soul, more so that written/verbalized word. And you idea about ideographic languages, does intrigue me quite a bit. Being able to psychologically draw out what you are thinking, than describing it with words. A kind of mind melding or neurotramsmitting system, to support this transfer of imagery through ideas and thoughts. Not phasing out verbal communication completely. But changing how we share our intentions, plans, hopes, and dreams.

 

[Jumpinbare]

I feel natural human creativity, is a language. In all it's forms. How we present ourselves. How we act. How we respond to things. It all speaks without speaking. To connect in ways that do not require words, but understanding of the soul. Understanding of the self, as well as the understanding of others through spiritual senses.

As much trouble as most of us have with body language, and guessing how other people think, words seem like the best tools autistics have.

 

[Ken]

Language is a created abstract. It is entirely interpretive. The meaning of the words must all be agreed upon in order to communicate. This means that everyone must have the same unwelt, which is why many autistic people have trouble expressing themself. No words have been "created" to communicate their message or feelings.

It is very commonly believed that human language is by far the greatest form of communication. I'm not so sure. In fact I feel that belief is rather narcissistic. There are other animals on this planet that communicates in pictures. Dolphins and whales for example can "see" with built in sonar. Dolphins can even see inside other animals and can then re-transmit what they "saw" to other dolphins. No interpretation needed. I think that form of communication is far more "accurate". They can individually see internal issues in other individuals - even other species.

Indeed, humans, by way of abstract language, has come up with a lot of impressive technology. But, impressive to who? We believe that we are superior because of how our numbers have grown. But, is that really something to be proud of? Perhaps many other life forms, that have not over populated the planet, knows some things we don't.

 

[UFO]

Then add unspoken, unwritten, socail rules to that.

Add body language, facial expressions, tones of voice etc. Which are first forms of communication (at more complex level than just saying "danger" or "me here") *). Spoken language is merely built on those, and apparently proven so practical that while other forms of communication (body language, facial expressions, tones of voice etc.) still matter, the spoken language has become superior method to communicate complex subjects and abstract concepts **). Much easier to arrange co-ordination during hunting and to make battle plans against hostile and equally smart clans. It could have been developed otherwise: we could be using sign language, but ability to not need a line of sight and being able to communicate in darkness and while holding things are an advantage.

*) Hmm... And autism has issues with all those... Scary thought to have born before development of language...

**) What I really don't understand is why we (humankind) have found beneficial (assuming, that if it wouldn't be beneficial, we wouldn't be doing it) to add more and more meanings to existing words instead keeping it simple and just inventing new words. I like professional jargon more because of that.

It's not the most effective for of communication. That we will get more from other methods.

I realize you are talking more of social and emotional communication and less of cold information sharing.

Perhaps many other life forms, that have not over populated the planet knows some things we don't.

Evolution does not have a mind or do any plans. So it is not their "choice" and they don't "know" anything that could control how they multiply.

In our (humankind) case evolution has just screwed up and failed to create balancing factors. (Yes, I know, I just began to humanizing evolution - yet another problem of how our language and thinking behind using language has developed)

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I know. The knee jerk response is to say something like "To communicate" or "To make communication easier".

Honestly. Spoken word, in any language, requires so much forethought. Especailly if it's a language other than the one you speak. Which just feels like it only exists to serve as a barrier, more than anything else.

I feel like the idea of spoken language, divides us and creates more confusion. That there has to be a better way to connect. Especially for us ND folks.

I feel natural human creativity, is a language. In all it's forms. How we present ourselves. How we act. How we respond to things. It all speaks without speaking. To connect in ways that do not require words, but understanding of the soul. Understanding of the self, as well as the understanding of others through spiritual senses.

I think about the words I use now and wonder about them. What are these lines and symbols we use? Do have a meaning, beyond whatever meaning we interpret collectively? Do our names have a purpose? Or is it merely identification? What are we identifying? The soul, or the body?

Neither need it.

In truth. I feel that while it took creativity to form language. The purpose is limited. And it requires things that can exclude and remove people. Hurt people. Create chaos out of mere tones.

There are many constructs, that are part of man's doing. But so many more, that are not.

But maybe I am thinking too deeply about something that doesn't require that much thought...

I just keep wondering if these words we read and speak, mean remotely close to what we think they do. Or if it all is just actually without meaning.

I suppose it is up to interpretation and perspective. We do make meaning in things.

In response to this, which is a good topic BTW, I did a simple Google inquiry: "What is the purpose of spoken language?" Instead of a rather concise A.I. response, I received multiple sites attempting to explain. The common theme amongst them all were overwhelmingly, that this is a positive thing that contributed to human beings advancing so quickly within the animal kingdom, very much like the opposable thumb, and written language. Being able to communicate verbally, as well as, through drawing, through gestures, through written language really sets us apart. Now, in terms of speed, verbal language is the quickest. The only thing that may have the potential for quicker communication would be mental telepathy, which currently, we have not evolved to have. Perhaps with adjuncts like NeuraLink implants and the like, we can communicate with our minds at a higher bandwidth, but not today.

I find it interesting that you specifically chose a list of potential negative things about spoken language. All valid points, BTW. However, like many things in life there is often some balance, Ying and Yang, good and evil, pros and cons. It's not just one-sided.

One would think that mental telepathy would allow us all to communicate more effectively. It would reveal intent and truth. Being able to deceive someone would all but be eliminated. You could reveal evil in an instant. We would never have this confusion in our minds as to what was really behind someone's words. However, our brains are not in any way, shape, form, or ability to function in this manner. Even now, I am typing this, but I have at least 2-3 other thought processes going on in the background, very much like your home computer when you have one window open, but others also open in other tabs. Well, how would that work if someone was trying to actually read my mind? Would all this also create confusion? I think in the English language, but if I met someone from Thailand on vacation, would they be thinking in their language, and neither of us being able to communicate with each other? Would there be a universal language we would have to adopt as human beings on Earth?

I think what can be confusing for many of us is that some of us focus primarily upon WHAT was said, rather than HOW it was said. In extreme cases of emotion like profound grief, happiness, or anger, it becomes obvious, but in normal, everyday interactions, I am often oblivious to all the subtle nuances of voice inflection, facial micro-expressions, pupil dilation, non-verbal communication, etc. I am, in no way, trained in observing these things. I have a difficult time understanding the true meanings behind the words, and as such my responses during those interactions may not be what is expected by the other person. I am missing an entire layer of communication that lies on the surface of verbal language. As such, it can create some underlying fear, anxiety, and self-consciousness. I can see where many of us would have difficulties making interpersonal connections and even want to avoid other people. For context, I work with large teams and with the public. I am around people ALL-THE-TIME, so it's not for lacking opportunity. I am immersed in it, but my brain simply doesn't have the tools to communicate the way neurotypicals do.

I don't want to sound apathetic here, but sometimes we just have to accept the realities of life, accept the cards given to us, and play the game to the best of our abilities.

 

[Shevek]

Animals get a huge amount of information from body language that we are almost oblivious to. We have kept horses for thousands of years, but not one person in a thousand learned how to use their language, despite enormous advantages for those who did. Dogs love it if we understand their gestures, which are subtle to us but blatant to other dogs.
Animal vocalizations are mostly single words, and they do use them to lie sometimes, but human language is so complex that it usually deadens our sensitivity to other channels, and it also lets us tell huge, complicated lies that we get lost in ourselves. We can use precise language for science, and have made wonderful discoveries, but even the best scientists get taken in by obvious fables outside their area of expertise.

 

[Jumpinbare]

human language is so complex that it usually deadens our sensitivity to other channels, and it also lets us tell huge, complicated lies that we get lost in ourselves.

Several Native American languages are so precise that you can't use ambiguity or generalities to lie. If you try, your sentence makes no sense. You have to fully commit and tell a bold face lie, or tell the truth.

 

[vergil96]

But the point I am trying to make is more about questioning the fundamentals of spoken language. What is it all about?

My point of view: about compression of information. Think how costly it would be, if telepathy existed, to transfer a film compared to words or another form of symbols. Just one frame of a film has, say 500x500 pixels each 3 numbers. Text is just as many signs as it contains, words have "sound signs".