What is your view of Humanity?

[Greatshield17]

This will probably be my last thread on here for awhile, as I'll be busy trying to get things in order for this month. I want to ask a philosophical and cosmological question namely, what is your view of humanity and human nature?

I mentioned in a previous thread being fascinated by human nature and the natural law. I used to have quite a negative view of humanity do to being bullied and poorly treated in my childhood. After reverting, my view of humanity radically changed, I have a huge devotion to Mary, and after study Catholic teachings on Our Lady I came across an interesting insight; Aristotle says that you judge a breed by the best of its kind, and Our Lady is considered the greatest of all Saints, as well as conceived without Original Sin that is, conceived without humanity's fallen nature. I came to the conclusion that Mary Immaculate is humanity as God originally intended.

Obviously this view may come across as idealistic, I don't deny the other Catholic teaching that apart from Jesus and Mary, the rest of humanity has a fallen nature. (There's a sarcastic saying among Catholics that simply goes, "Everyone is Immaculately Conceived exempt Our Lady.") I'm well aware of the undeniable fact that humanity is well capable of, and has done some very evil things, and we can easily make these evil things look perfectly normal, even good and righteous. And in practice, I still have a hard time trusting people and opening up to them in general. (although part of this also has to do with my own poor social skills.) However I do have this (in a sense literally) optimistic view of humanity -even though I hold the view of most Fathers and Doctors of the Church that few will become Saints- and it has helped me a lot in my life, especially on a psychological level.

But what are your views of humanity and human nature? What in your life experience has affected your view of humanity, and how has your view changed over the years?

 

[Gerontius]

We exist.

I see humanity as a fallen race that is inclined toward the perceived good, any perversion of which may be used to help reach Good, or be mistaken for Good.

I judge people by the way they treat animals and children.

My regard for most people falls far below civility.

I hate talking philosophy though I am studying it.

 

[Judge]

This will probably be my last thread on here for awhile, as I'll be busy trying to get things in order for this month. I want to ask a philosophical and cosmological question namely, what is your view of humanity and human nature?

I believe that we all choose to reincarnate as imperfect mortal beings and enter this secondary plane of existence, with a goal of achieving personal enlightenment. That which we cannot otherwise achieve on our primary plane of existence as perfect eternal souls.

That in essence, humanity is terribly imperfect- by design.

 

[Gift2humanity]

Humanity is split into good and evil and there is a grey area in between which most fit.
It is easy to fall into the pit of evil though and hard to keep our souls pure.

 

[Greatshield17]

I believe that we all choose to reincarnate as imperfect mortal beings and enter this secondary plane of existence, with a goal of achieving personal enlightenment. That which we cannot otherwise achieve on our primary plane of existence as perfect eternal souls.

That in essence, humanity is terribly imperfect- by design.

I see, so you hold a dualist view in which we're best as pure spirits?

 

[Greatshield17]

Humanity is split into good and evil and there is a grey area in between which most fit.
It is easy to fall into the pit of evil though and hard to keep our souls pure.

I see, what do you think our some of the biggest temptations facing most people out there?

 

[Gift2humanity]

I see, so you hold a dualist view in which we're best as pure spirits?

I see that our souls are eternal, and our bodies vehicles for each life/incarnation and the reason we incarnate is to learn spiritual lessons.

 

[Gracey]

My view changes constantly.

The more I learn and the more I consider different perspectives,
the more my idea changes.

At the moment I believe we're each just trying to get by in the only ways we know how.
Ask me again this time next year, I'll have a different answer.
Fluid.

 

[Greatshield17]

We exist.

I see humanity as a fallen race that is inclined toward the perceived good, any perversion of which may be used to help reach Good, or be mistaken for Good.

I judge people by the way they treat animals and children.

My regard for most people falls far below civility.

I hate talking philosophy though I am studying it.

If you don't mind me asking, what are your thoughts on Aristotle and his view that humanity is meant to be virtuous?

 

[Judge]

I see, so you hold a dualist view in which we're best as pure spirits?

I wouldn't go that far. Let's just say that our primary existence is the one that counts.

This mortal existence is little more than taking a course in college in comparison. Deliberately temporary, with the purpose of learning some specific lessons to enrich our actual existence that exists on another plane.

-A "slice of reality" at best.

"But this is MY LIFE!" -Yes. Though just one of many temporary reincarnations.

 

[Gerontius]

If you don't mind me asking, what are your thoughts on Aristotle and his view that humanity is meant to be virtuous?

I'm essentially a Thomist so my view of Aristotle is colored by later developments along those lines, rather than stopping at Aristotle. Course we're meant to be virtuous, but only in the sense of virtue as equaling acts and traits and habits that may get us ready for union with God. Otherwise, Virtue is its one and its only reward--boring!

 

[Greatshield17]

I'm essentially a Thomist so my view of Aristotle is colored by later developments along those lines, rather than stopping at Aristotle. Course we're meant to be virtuous, but only in the sense of virtue as equaling acts and traits and habits that may get us ready for union with God. Otherwise, Virtue is its one and its only reward--boring!

On a Theological level, how do you define Heaven being humanity's supernatural end but not natural end? I sort of get that, sort of don't or rather, I can't quite nail down a specific definition of that doctrine; I know it in practice but not definition-wise.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

Currently, with what is going on in the world and all the chaos that happened this year alone, my faith in humanity is at an all-time low.

 

[Greatshield17]

Currently, with what is going on in the world and all the chaos that happened this year alone, my faith in humanity is at an all-time low.

Yeah... Not looking good out there... Things have been worse though.

 

[Gerontius]

On a Theological level, how do you define Heaven being humanity's supernatural end but not natural end? I sort of get that, sort of don't or rather, I can't quite nail down a specific definition of that doctrine; I know it in practice but not definition-wise.

Our natural end is union with God. Yay.
The human race fell. We no longer live in God automatically.
Baptism makes us capable of a share in God's supernatural life.
If we're going to heaven well we can't go without it.
Therefore either baptism by water or by desire are needed.
Extra ecclesiam nulla salutis, but not Feeneyism.
So when we're raised to this point where we're capable of life with God, by one way or another (OK, by God's own grace, as long as we co-operate without mortal sin and with at least some participation for faith without works is dead) then it becomes our supernatural end because we literally transcend human nature. (With a little help. Not Pelagian.)

At least that's how I always heard it in Catholicism; may be wrong. Granted there's a heap of "Catholic" stuff out there that is completely not Catholic at all. (For example: most catechetical materials after the Dutch Catechism.) And I think my answer doesn't really clarify the natural/supernatural thing.

 

[Gerontius]

Currently, with what is going on in the world and all the chaos that happened this year alone, my faith in humanity is at an all-time low.

Same.

 

[Luluofthevalley]

We’re in a fallen state and it takes a supernatural intervention to rise above it

 

[Greatshield17]

Our natural end is union with God. Yay.
The human race fell. We no longer live in God automatically.
Baptism makes us capable of a share in God's supernatural life.
If we're going to heaven well we can't go without it.
Therefore either baptism by water or by desire are needed.
Extra ecclesiam nulla salutis, but not Feeneyism.
So when we're raised to this point where we're capable of life with God, by one way or another (OK, by God's own grace, as long as we co-operate without mortal sin and with at least some participation for faith without works is dead) then it becomes our supernatural end because we literally transcend human nature. (With a little help. Not Pelagian.)

At least that's how I always heard it in Catholicism; may be wrong. Granted there's a heap of "Catholic" stuff out there that is completely not Catholic at all. (For example: most catechetical materials after the Dutch Catechism.) And I think my answer doesn't really clarify the natural/supernatural thing.

Okay, when you say union with God is our natural end at the beginning, you mean pre-fall right? Because the problem with saying Heaven is our natural end now, is that Salvation becomes something God owes us rather than a gift.

Of course in a sense, everything is a gift from God regardless of whether we're fallen or Immaculate, we're neither owed nor earn anything; no one can earn their existence due to the obvious fact that we wouldn't be there to earn it.

 

[hatfullofrain]

Most people are just trying to do their best and get along, but you've got the few bad eggs who rock the boat and ruin it for everyone else.

Our street is pretty nice. People aren't in your face, but friendly enough. But there's this one family who are running some kind of dodgy house clearance business, man in a van type thing and keep dumping bulky items in the communal bin area and we all get charged for a special uplift.

Most people are ok, but some are just selfish.

 

[Greatshield17]

Same.

You know, last summer I started taking up the habit of reading a chapter of the Bible everyday. I'm currently on 1st Kings/ 1st Samuel, and in both it, and the Book of Judges I noticed a lot of applicability with our own time. (Of course the Book of Ruth gives us a bit of hope.)