Why don't people study while they are in prison

[Polchinski]

I never been to prison, nor ever going to. But when I hear how they are bored there, I can't help but think "why are they killing their time, the only positive thing they do have?" Because you see, as somebody in mathematics and physics, I don't have time to do the kind of math and physics that I like. I need to do what I am expected to do by my thesis committee. I also have to spend significant portion of time teaching, etc. I get lucky when I get a week to myself to do the type of math and physics that I want. But those people in prison they have YEARS to themselves. They don't have to work: they get free food basically. Yes I heard that in some prisons they do work, but not a whole lot since I heard they play cards. So why can't they all take all those hours that they are playing cards and use it all for studying math and physics?

I realize that, unlike me, they might not care about studying as much. But here is the thing. Obviously they regret that prison sentence is on their records, etc. When you get a regret, don't you want to make yourself feel better by finding some positive to counter it? The time to study is a clear positive. Why don't they use it?

Again I realize that not everyone like studying. But that is largely because you can't study what you want, you have to study what other people want. But in prisons they can study what they want since nobody asks them to study anything. So maybe they can come to enjoy studying?

 

[Mr. Stevens]

I realize that, unlike me, they might not care about studying as much. But here is the thing. Obviously they regret that prison sentence is on their records, etc. When you get a regret, don't you want to make yourself feel better by finding some positive to counter it? The time to study is a clear positive. Why don't they use it?

Aside from whether they are or not, I don't think they just get access to any book they want. It's prison. They're not there for fun. It's a place where many are forced to join white hate groups, for example. I think they're more worried about being murdered or raped.

Also some people are going to be more focused on returning to the kind of life they led before prison, if those skills get them more money than following the law does.

 

[Rodafina]

I think you have a naïve vision of what prisons are like. The people there do not just have time to themselves. There are strict rules about when things can happen and what can happen. There are also severe social and mental health pressures that people in prison are dealing with.

Aside from that, people absolutely do what you are suggesting. No, not all of them, because not all would be interested. But many people spend their time as well as possible in prison.

Please don’t mistake incarceration for some kind of vacation where you have food and time to yourself. This is far from accurate.

 

[Jordy]

Autistics often view studying their interests as an end in itself. A lot of normal people don't really get this.

 

[Judge]

If you examine the average recidivism rates for prisoners from various states you can see why there's not so much incentive for self-improvement. Not with so many of them returning within three years of when they got out.

Assuming of course they can do their time and survive a 24/7 existence as "prey" to more hardened criminals and criminal organizations operating inside so many prisons under the noses of guards and administrators.

Then again if you want to major in criminal pursuits, prisons more often than not are often ideal places of learning.

 

[Polchinski]

It's a place where many are forced to join white hate groups, for example.

Thats interesting. If anything, I would of expected the authorities to be "stopping" people from joining white hate groups rather than "forcing them to". Well, yeah, participation in white hate groups is protected by First Amendment, in USA at least. But the most First Amandment will do is to allow people to join them "if they want to". I don't see how it can actually be "forcing" people to join them.

Or are you saying that its not prison authorities that do the forcing but rather circumstances? As in, the prisoners are forced to join white hate groups in order not to be raped by the blacks? But in this case, wouldn't blacks be even more likely to rape them if they see they are in white hate groups cause that would piss them off? Or are you saying that its because the members of white hate groups would protect you from blacks, if you join it?

 

[Polchinski]

If you examine the average recidivism rates for prisoners from various states you can see why there's not so much incentive for self-improvement.

And if you examine the success rate of becoming a professor for people that did NOT go to prison, the stats are even more gloom. There is 1 opening and 100 candidates. Yet here I am, still trying.

As far as not to fall into recedivism statistics, they have a far better chance. Because whether or not to repeat a crime is a free choice. They can choose not to. But whether or not to be elected from the pool of 1 out of 100, thats not my free cohice.

Assuming of course they can do their time and survive a 24/7 existence as "prey" to more hardened criminals

I think there is an option of serving in isolation. Most people choose not to do it cause its lonely. And thats another thing I don't get. I don't see how the company of hardened criminals that puts you in a constant danger ever be preferable to loneliness. I would say just go to the isolation, and study math+physics.

 

[Polchinski]

I think you have a naïve vision of what prisons are like. The people there do not just have time to themselves.

The title of this link 15 Ways People Kill Time in Prison make it sound like they do. Hence the question: why are they trying to KILL time (as title puts it), why not USE time for studies?

 

[Rodafina]

Because whether or not to repeat a crime is a free choice. They can choose not to. But whether or not to be elected from the pool of 1 out of 100, thats not my free cohice.

This is not the full picture though. Imagine yourself, being released from prison. You are not eligible for government benefits, in many places you cannot vote, you have no guarantee of housing or support. You will likely be on probation for an extended period of time. You were released into an unstructured world where there are a few options for work, little respect from a judgmental society, and the extant mental health issues that were exacerbated in prison. The reasons for recidivism are deeply rooted in systemic racism, social injustice, and a lack of adequate mental health care for offenders.

I think there is an option of serving in isolation.

This is not true.

The title of this link 15 Ways People Kill Time in Prison make it sound like they do. Hence the question: why are they trying to KILL time (as title puts it), why not USE time for studies?

Access to outside materials or time in the library is severely limited. The resources that people who are incarcerated have are not the same as you and I. They are separated from friends, family, and support systems. The libraries that they may have access to are old, neglected, and often limited in what they can offer. The phrase “killing time“ refers to the fact that prisoners are forced to endure idle time because there is a severe lack of funding or concern over prisoners’ well-being while they are serving time.

Plus, I will reiterate, that there are plenty of people who push through these barriers and meet the challenge of finding suitable information to study, and they do. When people have the opportunity, they often earn degrees or work certifications while they are incarcerated. But again, when you are busy surviving, constantly in a fight or flight mode, it is difficult to apply your mind to higher learning.

Prisons in America are an extremely dangerous place for those who are incarcerated as well as the staff. They are places where survival comes first, and this can make it difficult for some people to study.

 

[Darkkin]

According to the National Adult Literacy Survey, 70% of all incarcerated adults cannot read at a fourth-grade level, “meaning they lack the reading skills to navigate many everyday tasks or hold down anything but lower (paying) jobs.”

 

[Kitsuna]

I think there is an option of serving in isolation. Most people choose not to do it cause its lonely. And thats another thing I don't get. I don't see how the company of hardened criminals that puts you in a constant danger ever be preferable to loneliness. I would say just go to the isolation, and study math+physics.

Long term solitary confinement in prisons is known to cause mental health problems

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/12/08/solitary_symposium/

 

[Jordy]

Dutch prisons allow people to take some possessions with them, this includes books. I can't imagine being restricted to the books you find in a subpar public library.

 

[Rodafina]

Dutch prisons allow people to take some possessions with them, this includes books. I can't imagine being restricted to the books you find in a subpar public library.

I heard that many Dutch prisons were closed and turned into apartments or something because your incarceration rate is so low. Is there any truth to that?

 

[Jordy]

I heard that many Dutch prisons were closed and turned into apartments or something because your incarceration rate is so low. Is there any truth to that?

Most crime in the Netherlands happens in the world of drugs and in forms of corruption, people aren't really being punished for it and when they are the punishments are far more forgiving than they are in the united states. We don't have a "war on drugs" basically, people don't get 5 or more years for weed. I don't know whether that's a good thing.
Rates of violent crime where people really have to be put away for the safety of society is rather low. The state also wants to close many prisons because they don't have it in their budget to run them anymore. It's also just very easy to under-report many forms of crime when the government wants people to believe their policies aren't having adverse consequences.

 

[Judge]

I think there is an option of serving in isolation.

Not in the US.

Apart from isolation being detrimental to mental health (see comments regarding the Supermax in Florence CO) it's not a logistically feasible choice given that upwards of 20% of state and federal inmates and 18% of local inmates are already in solitary confinement. Often reserved for the worst convicts.

Not to mention being a rather large burden to taxpayers. Tragically our country continues to lock up more people than just about any other country, with the exception of China, producing all kinds of budget constraints and logistical limitations. And privately-run (and controversial) penal institutions run even leaner, being responsible largely to shareholders who are always looking for quarterly profits.

Here it really is "prison". Not a place you want to be under any circumstances.

 

[Jordy]

Not in the US.

Apart from it being detrimental to mental health (see comments regarding the Supermax in Florence CO) it's not a logistically feasible choice given that upwards of 20% of state and federal inmates and 18% of local inmates are already in solitary confinement. Often reserved for the worst convicts.

Not to mention being a rather large burden to taxpayers.

What about semi isolation? As an autistic person i can't imagine having to spend for half my day around other people. Shared cells especially seem like a nightmare.

 

[Judge]

What about semi isolation? As an autistic person i can't imagine having to spend for half my day around other people. Shared cells especially seem like a nightmare.

If you think navigating the Neurotypical world is uncomfortable, wait until you have to serve time here. Worse than a nightmare on so many levels. Semi isolation? That's subject to the same considerations given fiscal and logistical limitations.

Of course if you make enough trouble, your wish may be granted. It's happened, but it's based on cause and effect rather than simply the choice of a convict. I've seen some horrible things done to silence people in county jails like Clark County NV (Las Vegas). Where one's arms, legs and face are bound and covered, tied onto a gurney where they can barely move. Placed in a room by themselves to cool off. Things filmed by the media for public consumption.

Perhaps the worst I have observed (from the outside) consistently about all levels of prison is the unending noise. That would make me go insane in a hurry without some ear protectors. Perhaps the one exception are the few maximum security facilities like the Supermax. Kind of like Alcatraz in that everything functions in relative silence. With soundproof cells you are stuck in 23 hours a day, every day. With a routine that can break people emotionally and psychologically. Convicted of espionage and bank robbery, Christopher Boyce (Falcon & the Snowman) once cited the Supermax as being the worst time he ever served in his 25 years of federal incarceration.

Prison for most anyone on the spectrum has to be a catastrophe, even in the short term. And I haven't even mentioned all the rigors of being beaten or even killed and molested by all kinds of convicts in organized groups. Where just being there may make you an enemy of people you never met or even heard of before. And in some cases you have to fear the guards every bit as the inmates (Pelican Bay State Prison California).

https://truthout.org/articles/gladiator-fights-expose-prisons-to-be-genocidal-machines/
The few people who serve relatively easy time tend to be high-profile first-time federal offenders not considered to be violent who are sent to separate minimum security facilities/camps like Dublin California (Patty Hearst), Alderson West Virginia (Martha Stewart) or Danbury Connecticut (Leona Helmsley).

 

[Au Naturel]

The average IQ in prison is about 7 points below average. Chronic offenders have a bigger deficit. Not that IQs are the be-all and end-all of intelligence but it does have some value. I'm sure that has an impact.

Once you land in prison you are surrounded by people who do not value education. they tend to be dropouts. You might not want to appear too smart for your own safety. The violence, criminality, and cruelty that go on in prison are not conducive to academic discipline. I also suspect that many prison administrations do not facilitate educational advancement to save money, if nothing else. It is a state-by-state and institution-by-institution policy.

 

[Raggamuffin]

If you ever get the chance to watch MSNBC's Lock Up. It ran for a very long time and gives a lot of insight into prison life, gangs, self-improvement, institutionalisation, violence, drugs, tattoos, gambling, and all other facets of prison life.

Louis Theroux Miami Mega Jail is a 2 part documentary worth a watch too.

Ed

 

[Mr. Stevens]

Thats interesting. If anything, I would of expected the authorities to be "stopping" people from joining white hate groups rather than "forcing them to". Well, yeah, participation in white hate groups is protected by First Amendment, in USA at least. But the most First Amandment will do is to allow people to join them "if they want to". I don't see how it can actually be "forcing" people to join them.

Or are you saying that its not prison authorities that do the forcing but rather circumstances? As in, the prisoners are forced to join white hate groups in order not to be raped by the blacks? But in this case, wouldn't blacks be even more likely to rape them if they see they are in white hate groups cause that would piss them off? Or are you saying that its because the members of white hate groups would protect you from blacks, if you join it?

Other prisoners force them to join.

And it's not uncommon for guards to force prisoners to fight for their own entertainment.

Prison is a business. It doesn't really work of people start improving themselves.