Hans Asperger aided and supported Nazi programme, study says

[Southern Discomfort]

Hans Asperger aided and supported Nazi programme, study says

Thoughts? I feel a bit betrayed by my knowledge of this man now. I'm not sure how to handle that. Or if I want to identify as someone who has Asperger's any more. Stimulating article to say the least.

 

[Otenba]

I think this is very sad, awkward, and unfortunate. I wonder if they'll stop diagnosing AS in response to this, only labeling all newly diagnosed with "autism". Shall see I guess...

 

[Bolletje]

Honestly, it doesn't change much for me. I might think differently of the man himself, but not of my condition or my label. A great many useful scientific discoveries have been made by scientists operating under the Nazi regime, or other inhumane regimes. Up until the 1990's studies were still conducted on inmate populations because, scientifically speaking, they're a perfect test group. (not saying I agree with this, just putting things into perspective)

I lament that people were hurt in the name of science, but I can't do anything about that now, and think it would be foolish to discard their discoveries based on who they were as a person or who they associated with.

 

[Streetwise]

I think this is very sad, awkward, and unfortunate. I wonder if they'll stop diagnosing AS in response to this, only labeling all newly diagnosed with "autism". Shall see I guess...

it will probably depend on how much respect they have for the article .

 

[Southern Discomfort]

A great many useful scientific discoveries have been made by scientists operating under the Nazi regime, or other inhumane regimes. Up until the 1990's studies were still conducted on inmate populations because, scientifically speaking, they're a perfect test group. (not saying I agree with this, just putting things into perspective)

Yes, but I still shudder with pictures in my imagination of what must have went on in this "laboratories". I think it's more like making the best of out a bad situation in the eyes of the rest of the world.

 

[Otenba]

it will probably depend on how much respect they have for the article .

I suspect if they did it'll be because of findings rather than any articles on it.

I hope people aren't daft enough to start applying more stigma to autistics over it. Yes, I do think people can be that stupid.

 

[Streetwise]

Yes, but I still shudder with pictures in my imagination of what must have went on in this "laboratories". I think it's more like making the best of out a bad situation in the eyes of the rest of the world.

I don't know if you're old enough !to remember a documentary that was broadcast in the UK about the Nazis program of eugenics !they took retarded children to a hospital! the next bit may distress you!they each had a bed and I presume they brought a portable machine which had a hose attached to it placed one end of the hose in the Childs mouth and Gas came out of the machine -this didn't just happen to children this happened to anybody in institutions who was mentally ill considered retarded.

 

[Progster]

Hans Asperger is a very controversial figure, but things are what they are and it doesn't change the reality for me or thousand of other people with the label of Asperger's syndrome. We need to take what can be learned from the past, and build on that to focus on the present, and not past, reality.

 

[xudo]

My sister sent me a link to this story earlier.

Honestly, it makes no difference to me. I hadn't really thought too much about Hans Asperger and to me (and probably many more) the term Asperger's is just a word. Ok, it's from his name and he wasn't a good guy. Hugo Boss was a Nazi sympathiser and designed the SS uniforms, but people still buy clothes/perfume with his name on. I don't think you can hold it against the company now, in the same way you can't hold it against the term Asperger's.

He was a bad guy, OK but it doesn't change me, my neurological makeup or the meaning of the term. Ultimately, the term is being phased out in many places anyway. If you have a big issue with this information, then you can use ASD if you prefer.

 

[Tom]

In the USA they abandoned Aspergers as being a separate and distinct condition a few years ago. They put all as being somewhere on a autistic spectrum, subcatagorized as High, Medium or Low functioning.

The controversy on Asperger himself has been going on a while, but this latest study I think provides proof he was a eugenics collaberator and not the defender of life he presented himself to be. So I think the name should no longer be used. I don't know yet what I will call myself from now on. 'On the Spectrum' is often used, but too long for casual reference.

 

[WildCat]

1. the Asperger's label has been replaced with "Autism Spectrum Disorder" (in the US that I know of), with different tiers...
2. this was decades ago and...
3. I really don't care...

With these findings, I wouldn't be surprised if people chimed in and felt backstabbed, and you really couldn't blame them given this study. As for myself, well, I could care less. Here I am existing in spite of it all, living in the present and looking forward to the future, and trying to let the past go.

 

[Judge]

Frankly I've never really bought into the notion of Dr. Asperger being some kind of hero or "Pied Piper" equivalent to Oskar Schindler, whose case for anti-Nazi activities remained quite unique.

To flourish professionally in Nazi Germany most any medical doctor in good standing had to also be in good standing with the state itself. It's no secret that of all the major German professions, more medical doctors became party members than most others. Even if Dr. Asperger was never officially a party member, he would have still had to professionally exhibit some form of political compliance to the Nazi state.

That at best, he may have managed to conduct his research in a low key manner to remain partially under the radar of one of the most notorious police states in modern history. Far more likely in the name of science than humanity and consideration for the welfare of his "research subjects". That it would be unlikely to conclude that Dr. Asperger was among the ranks of known anti-Nazis, who nearly all had one thing in common. Being arrested, tried, imprisoned and subsequently executed.

 

[FreeDiver]

Far more likely in the name of science than humanity and consideration for the welfare of his "research subjects". That it would be unlikely to conclude that Dr. Asperger was among the ranks of known anti-Nazis, who nearly all had one thing in common. Being arrested, tried, imprisoned and subsequently executed.

I agree. Had he not complied with the laws of the state he lived in and was subjected to. He too would have been deemed a traitor and subjected to imprisonment and/or execution, or even worse, torture.

 

[AGXStarseed]

I agree. Had he not complied with the laws of the state he lived in and was subjected to. He too would have been deemed a traitor and subjected to imprisonment and/or execution, or even worse, torture.

Wasn't it said that he was nearly arrested 2 or 3 times by the Gestapo, and it was only because his superior (Franz Hamburger) was a prominent Nazi supporter who stuck up for him that kept him from been arrested?

 

[Judge]

Wasn't it said that he was nearly arrested 2 or 3 times by the Gestapo, and it was only because his superior (Franz Hamburger) was a prominent Nazi supporter who stuck up for him that kept him from been arrested?

As far as I know that was only a claim put forth by Dr. Asperger himself.

Though it's pretty well documented as to how his superior (Franz Hamburger) toed the line of National Socialism relative to science and medicine. So much so that it would have made it that much more precarious for Dr. Asperger to be actively breaking any laws relative to the Nazi state.

And unlike Oskar Schindler, I seriously doubt Hans Asperger was stuffing money into everyone's pockets to pacify them. He was a medical doctor- not a war profiteer.

 

[AGXStarseed]

At the end of the day, all humans are neither perfectly good or perfectly evil - we're all a mixed bag who do good things and bad things, whether they're considered good or bad now or in the future after we're gone. Good people can say or do bad things and vice versa.
As I said on an article regarding whether Nelson's Column should be pulled down, everyone is defined by their era and everyone has their virtues and vices - what will be remembered and what won't is another matter.
The best thing to do is to learn the history, learn where and how we went wrong and learn from it to better ourselves for the benefit of future generations
In the words of wise old Rafiki from The Lion King, "The past can hurt, but the way I see it you can either run from it, or...learn from it".

 

[ZebraAutismo]

Hasn’t theo

1. the Asperger's label has been replaced with "Autism Spectrum Disorder" (in the US that I know of), with different tiers...
2. this was decades ago and...
3. I really don't care...

With these findings, I wouldn't be surprised if people chimed in and felt backstabbed, and you really couldn't blame them given this study. As for myself, well, I could care less. Here I am existing in spite of it all, living in the present and looking forward to the future, and trying to let the past go.

UK dropped a couple of years ago too.

 

[WereBear]

a) it has nothing to do with us, he's the scientist who identified one big wrinkle in a giant quilt we all occupy

b) to be a working professional in Nazi Germany meant being a Nazi. It was designed that way.

c) He was no humanitarian, but he was no Dr. Mengele, either

If I may shed a bit of light on this from my study of the years before the rise of Hitler: this was a incredibly authoritarian society even before it went Nazi. And incredibly anti-Semitic... which was the norm for most of Europe, frankly, but devastating lost wars and a crumbling empire had made Germans frantic for a scapegoat they could blame.

Popular child rearing manuals of the early twentieth century in Germany emphasized the child's obedience and routine, reinforced with deprivation, shaming, and outright violence. They advocated tying children to their beds lest they masturbate, and they had rigs to make them sit up straight and hand devices to make them write neatly. They were overwhelmingly raised authoritarian and they "obeyed orders," as we all know.

Under such circumstances, a giant slice of the population were helpless to develop their individuality or personal ethics. And there were few competing systems they could follow, instead: communism was actually popular because it was actually more empowering for women and minorities than the existing structure, but Hitler killed as many as he could round up.

And think about that for a bit; your neighborhood, your job, your friends; it was obey or get evicted, fired, and shunned. This was before the death threats started being carried out; now think about resisting when the police drag you away as a result... and no one comes back.

It's daunting, to say the least.

 

[kay]

Even though no one is perfect and he may have been a victim of his culture and situation to some degree, I think I am going to drop my use of asperger's for describing myself. In thinking about Asperger and Nazis I think I should react the same as when I realized our local Democrat annual big event was called Jackson Days. How could we use the name of such an awful racist for a Democrat event? Happily I am not the only one to notice https://www.news-leader.com/story/news/politics/2017/03/13/citing-presidents-record-slavery-and-genocide-local-democrats-rename-jackson-day/99007582/

Anyhoo, since I feel that way about that I figure it is best to find another adjective for myself. I like casual, non medical sounding words best though on here I certainly use ASD and autistic as much as any other word but aspergers gives me aspie and that word sounds so not clinical. Suggestions are welcome, please. What I am looking for is something very laid back and no big deal sounding. That's how I like to disclose the ASD info about me, as though it's pretty much like being left handed or having size 8 feet. And for the most part that is true, if it wasn't for the one size fits all mentality that thrives in most cultures my life might have been quite a bit different and better.

 

[pjcnet]

Pope Benedict XVI who was pope from 2005 to 2013 was in Hitler's youth from the age of 14, in his defence it was apparently compulsory and national service was also unavoidable when he reached 16. A large proportion of Germans supported Hitler when he was in his "prime", if you can call it that, many saw him almost like a messiah that came to save Germany. Some of modern psychiatry has originated from dreadful Nazi experiments, even now I mostly condemn the practice of psychiatry and some of the barbaric treatments that are still used even today along with the influx of detrimental antidepressants and antipsychotics.

I know it's not great, but my point is how long do you hold links to Nazism against someone, especially when they've done a lot of good work since?