You are welcome
No I have never really been into fiction, even as a child.
I am sorry but I don't understand what you are saying here.
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A Shamanic Obsession
- Thread starter SimonSays
- Start date
I am sorry but I don't understand what you are saying here.
Sorry I edited the fiction bit out because I asked you that before.
that was a quick response
A few years ago, a few plants were grown for me in pots in a garden over the summer, and from those plants I made a tincture. It was ready to be used after about three or four months, and initially I was taking 1ml as a dose, equivalent to about 24 drops or a full pipette from the little 20ml brown glass bottle. And slowly over time, it has matured and become stronger to the point where a dose is now one single drop. It is a powerful medicine. I made it for me, and it works exactly how I wanted it to.
It's been quite a journey to find the right idea. I spent time living in America exploring techniques of creating medicine and this is the result.
A single drop of a natural, organically grown plant, extracted using organic ethanol and nothing else. It's as pure as can be.
I gave some to my mum, to see if she would benefit from it while she was having chemotherapy and cancer and so on, and she said she got some benefit from it, but most of the time I think it wasn't really something she wanted; she was just pleasing me, but I genuinely believed it could help her.
Anyway, I wanted to share the experience I sometimes have while on it.
So after letting my thoughts out, being expressive and creative and giving myself work for later by recording them, I then feel at peace and experience mental quiet. I now walk slowly in the park, and if another idea comes I'll get it out too then go back to the quiet, giving me a good balance between expression and silence; both are important for me. If I do one too much and neglect the other, I become unbalanced. I can sometimes swing the other way and become unbalanced again, but if I get it right, and it's a practice, balance can be found. The medicine helps me a lot. It makes me feel like a channel opens. The channel can and does open without it, and when that happens, spontaneously, unexpectedly, those moments can be profound, but for the most part, when I'm not using it, I am just dealing with the ordinary mundane things of life, day-to-day stuff, taking care of myself; practical things.
It's the creative state that I feel most like ‘myself’ in. Kind of like an actor who prefers to be playing the part of someone else rather than being themselves.
Sometimes there is nothing that comes to be said, or after having said things there may not be anything there that wants to be said for some time. But that's okay, because it's the emptiness that I also crave, the feeling of having felt it and expressed it and not held back; that feels emptying. It's one of the reasons I struggled living in the hostel those 6 weeks. While appreciating the moments when I could record freely, it was always possible that somebody would come in at any moment, and it's not easy to get into the creative state when you can be interrupted with no other option but to stop.
So to be able to do this at all is a privilege, and to suddenly be by a newly blossomed tree as I say that, it makes me feel like this is exactly what I'm supposed to do right now. Which is a nice feeling.
It's been quite a journey to find the right idea. I spent time living in America exploring techniques of creating medicine and this is the result.
A single drop of a natural, organically grown plant, extracted using organic ethanol and nothing else. It's as pure as can be.
I gave some to my mum, to see if she would benefit from it while she was having chemotherapy and cancer and so on, and she said she got some benefit from it, but most of the time I think it wasn't really something she wanted; she was just pleasing me, but I genuinely believed it could help her.
Anyway, I wanted to share the experience I sometimes have while on it.
So after letting my thoughts out, being expressive and creative and giving myself work for later by recording them, I then feel at peace and experience mental quiet. I now walk slowly in the park, and if another idea comes I'll get it out too then go back to the quiet, giving me a good balance between expression and silence; both are important for me. If I do one too much and neglect the other, I become unbalanced. I can sometimes swing the other way and become unbalanced again, but if I get it right, and it's a practice, balance can be found. The medicine helps me a lot. It makes me feel like a channel opens. The channel can and does open without it, and when that happens, spontaneously, unexpectedly, those moments can be profound, but for the most part, when I'm not using it, I am just dealing with the ordinary mundane things of life, day-to-day stuff, taking care of myself; practical things.
It's the creative state that I feel most like ‘myself’ in. Kind of like an actor who prefers to be playing the part of someone else rather than being themselves.
Sometimes there is nothing that comes to be said, or after having said things there may not be anything there that wants to be said for some time. But that's okay, because it's the emptiness that I also crave, the feeling of having felt it and expressed it and not held back; that feels emptying. It's one of the reasons I struggled living in the hostel those 6 weeks. While appreciating the moments when I could record freely, it was always possible that somebody would come in at any moment, and it's not easy to get into the creative state when you can be interrupted with no other option but to stop.
So to be able to do this at all is a privilege, and to suddenly be by a newly blossomed tree as I say that, it makes me feel like this is exactly what I'm supposed to do right now. Which is a nice feeling.
Cannabis can be a benefit when used in the right way. I used to use it daily, ironically, to stop meltdowns. I found I needed to up the dose to get creative. This is when it dulls the mind.
It must be wonderful to have a lot of knowledge of different herbal medicines.
I bet it is.
That was kind of you. It is supposed to help sickness from things like chemotherapy.
I read on some spiritual site that misuse of pot can damage the electromagnetic auric field however you sound like you know when and when not to use it to get the best out of it because you have said that you can enter these creative states without it. Would you be able to feel okay if cannabis did not exist? I hope you don’t mind me asking this question.
Yes creativity is good the opposite of destruction.
Yes, I wonder how people can produce great works of art in prison with all that interruption and noise and unpredictability?
You show gratitude.
Thanks for the photograph.
I went 10 years without using it at all. So, yes, I'd feel ok. It is a helper, a medicine. It is something that for many offers an alternative to alcohol (which can be very destructive and which I don't use). I don't drink tea or coffee either. I don't smoke tobacco. Cannabis is useful in Shamanic work, but it is not the real tool for the job.
When I've used mushrooms, cacti, and even LSD, although the latter feels a bit synthetic, they all open the doors of perception wide. All reveal the truth I need to see at the time. None of them are taken recreationally or even regularly. It's been years since I used any of these.
Cannabis is a gentler way in when there is need of it for exploratory purposes. It is by no means essential though.
I went 10 years without using it at all. So, yes, I'd feel ok. It is a helper, a medicine. It is something that for many offers an alternative to alcohol (which can be very destructive and which I don't use). I don't drink tea or coffee either. I don't smoke tobacco. Cannabis is useful in Shamanic work, but it is not the real tool for the job.
That's healthy respect. I regret using alcohol, as a young teen not drinking my gut instinct said it was embarrassing and made people vomit, but I still used it to fit in.
When I've used mushrooms, cacti, and even LSD, although the latter feels a bit synthetic, they all open the doors of perception wide. All reveal the truth I need to see at the time. None of them are taken recreationally or even regularly. It's been years since I used any of these.
I used these recreationally, if I had my time again I would use the plants formally in a non recreational setting with the right people.
Cannabis is a gentler way in when there is need of it for exploratory purposes. It is by no means essential though.
It sounds like you use it infrequently. It can really mess up regular users, not always by paranoia but by makeing holes in the electromagnetic field of the regular recreational user.
There are people who experience mental health issues after taking shamanic plants recreationally. But that's not the fault of the plant they are taking, it is unfortunately the result of taking something they are not trained and prepared for. For those who use a shamanic plant recreationally to get high, doesn't make the plant at fault if it affects them negatively.
I know some people have difficult experiences with these plants, others have seen their kids become mentally unstable, and become advocates of having it banned. This is not the fault of the plant, this is a problem with society today, and it is why governments have until recently controlled all these substances rather than make them freely available.
The problem with prohibition is that all it does is encourage things to go underground and give rise to the criminal activities of supplying it. If it's going to be around anyway, it makes more sense that it is controlled and regulated to ensure a standard of quality, and in a compassionate society, should there be issues as a result of using it, we are ready to step in to help. But calling for these plants to be banned is wrong.
I have a knife. It's a really useful tool to cut things with, but if I decide to stab somebody, it doesn't mean all knives should be prohibited. The problem would lie with me not with the knife.
Back in the day, thousands of years ago, only the shamans used substances like this. At the time of the first temple in Judea, where the priests went into the inner sanctum, the holy of holies. Nobody really knew what they did in there. I suspect what they were doing was using entheogenic plants to divine and connect with God. Nobody would know they were doing that because it wouldn't be relevant to them.
The role of the Shaman is to impart wisdom and take care of the spiritual needs of the village. The plants are used to assist this process, and only those who are able to use them or have been trained and initiated in their proper use should.
Unfortunately today, plants like cannabis, and other shamanic plants, can be obtained by anyone who has a mind to do so, and while I would not stop people from using what they think is right for them, it's very important that we understand that if there are negative consequences from doing so, it is the result of their choice and their practice not the substance itself.
I know some people have difficult experiences with these plants, others have seen their kids become mentally unstable, and become advocates of having it banned. This is not the fault of the plant, this is a problem with society today, and it is why governments have until recently controlled all these substances rather than make them freely available.
The problem with prohibition is that all it does is encourage things to go underground and give rise to the criminal activities of supplying it. If it's going to be around anyway, it makes more sense that it is controlled and regulated to ensure a standard of quality, and in a compassionate society, should there be issues as a result of using it, we are ready to step in to help. But calling for these plants to be banned is wrong.
I have a knife. It's a really useful tool to cut things with, but if I decide to stab somebody, it doesn't mean all knives should be prohibited. The problem would lie with me not with the knife.
Back in the day, thousands of years ago, only the shamans used substances like this. At the time of the first temple in Judea, where the priests went into the inner sanctum, the holy of holies. Nobody really knew what they did in there. I suspect what they were doing was using entheogenic plants to divine and connect with God. Nobody would know they were doing that because it wouldn't be relevant to them.
The role of the Shaman is to impart wisdom and take care of the spiritual needs of the village. The plants are used to assist this process, and only those who are able to use them or have been trained and initiated in their proper use should.
Unfortunately today, plants like cannabis, and other shamanic plants, can be obtained by anyone who has a mind to do so, and while I would not stop people from using what they think is right for them, it's very important that we understand that if there are negative consequences from doing so, it is the result of their choice and their practice not the substance itself.
I have never taken ayahuasca, peyote, I have had LSA and mushrooms.
It is only lately that I think exactly the same as what you have written here.
People who are troubled, who book retreats and expect all of their problems to go away are more at risk of mental illness, when day-to-day life kicks back in, and they cannot handle the piffle of it all.
Those who stand the best chance of having a shamanic experience of these plants are the ones who are used to being in a meditative state, preferably starting in childhood. The geeky kid who could be found in the library reading fiction, not caring if he was bullied.
The arty kid who was alone but not lonely, who didn't care that he wasn't in the in-crowd.
The musical kid who showed bullies that losing a fight wouldn't make him scared of them.
Any traumatised kid who engaged in creative activities that enabled them to move through their trauma in a healthy way, to move them on and dissolve the charge of the negative energy from the trauma.
The difference between the "cool" kids/bullied wannabe kids, and the "un-cool" bookworm, arty, musical kids is that the second group cultivated inner silence from an age when their brain was developing, so they became stronger from that abuse they may have received, they became calmer, slower-talking, and more self-reliant and self directed.
I've watched retreats online and many say they feel cleansed initially. The kids who become mentally unstable fall into the category of the group of kids who did not engage in creative activities as a child to process abuse/trauma.
The plants revealed it to them, maybe in retreat, they were able to talk to fellow people there and facilitators/shamen, but back in day-to-day life, the old energies emerge.
These sorts of people are still blocked.
I agree with what you say about prohibition and will go a step further to venture "Is it done to create more pain, death and misery?" I ask because of the hideous drug "Spice" look at what that is doing to people.
I loved the knife analogy.
To add to this, there are lots of ancient monuments that depict psychedelics. Also, look at, for instance, the intricate patterns on mosques etc, I wonder if they used entheogen in the ancient Middle East before modern dogmatic Islam took ahold.
I agree. May I ask, have you had ayahuasca? I haven't. I fall into the category of kids who did not prepare meditatively in childhood.
Yes, I fully agree.
Right. Spice, only exists because the natural plant that people wanted to use was made illegal. If someone wants to take cannabis, and the alternative creates Spice because people still want to get high, and i is killing people and Cannabis doesn't, GIVE THEM CANNABIS.
Definitely. All spiritual teachings come out of the altered state. Whether the prophet of biblical times was an autistic or epileptic, or whether the stories are just metaphor for the discoveries the high priests/Shaman made, doesn't matter.
Some Jewish scholars believe the story in the bible of Mana being gathered each day to 'feed the people', actually tells about Psilocybin mushrooms being gathered in the early morning dew for the priests to take and divine the way.
No
I good point there. However, who offers this training/preparation? and what kind of things are on the syllabus?
I heard that Mana was psilocybin.
So sad that we are in the first thousand years of the dark age Kali Yuga and have another 20 odd thousand to go.
Good point too.
That's the problem. We don't have a traditional wisdom culture in the West, where it comes to learning through apprenticeship the ways of the Shaman and the use of these plants. The Shaman are out there, and many have apprentices, but it is not a path everyone can take. Until it is fully recognised that these plants are sacred and essential for mankind, the West will not allow this wisdom to be passed down.
Knowing how and where to use the plants, and with the right intention. How to navigate the astral/4D without getting psychologically lost or overwhelmed. Ego reduction practices. First year syllabus.
I think training starts in childhood.
We are all born with innate talents from God that are creative outlets, and can put us in a meditative state.
Some kids use them, the geeks in the library reading sci-fi who dont care if they lose fights to bullies, other kids don't use them, like me, wanting to fit in.
The creative kids are more resilient bouncing back from abuse. They do not hold bitter grudges against their abusers, as they know to forgive.
I was not one of these kids.
Art, Literary fiction, sci-fi, music, anything creative can strengthen a kid mentally and prepare them to become a warrior later in life.
These kids are most likely to integrate the lessons from the plant medicines in to their day-to-day life.
The latter group of kids, who grow up traumatised, who wanted to fit in, low self esteem, these are the adults who will find the lessons from the plant medicines harder to integrate into their day-to-day life and are at a higher risk of mental illness.
I've been watching Syd Barrett-Pink Floyd, some say he may have been an Aspie. Sad story, looks like he got lost in the 4d realms.
This is very insightful.
It could explain why some people have mental health issues as a result of using plant medicine while others do not. We would be able to care about them better, in a more holistic way, than simply saying 'the drugs are dangerous and messed them up'.
Yes.
A couple of reflections on this interpretation.
I have been told that the word manna means "you is this?" - see the Biblical text itself.
Also, it was not just the priests who ate manna, but it was all the people. So to imagine that the people were walking around for 40 years, in the desert, high on magic mushrooms, seems not to make sense. IMHO
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