About to be engaged to an Aspie... and worried.

[Celina]

Hi.

I'm new here. I just discovered this forum after a google search, and I am happy to have found it. I should note, I do not have Aspergers myself.

So my bf and I have been together for 5 years, 3 years of which we've been living together. It took me a few years to recognize that my bf was an Aspie, I just wrote off his social anxiety and awkwardness as simply just being a geek (he's an engineer).

After a friend suggested that he might have Aspergers, I looked it up, did the quiz, and realized that he is very likely to have it.

Living with my bf can be frustrating, he's very set in his routine and doesn't like being interrupted while he works. He works 60+ hours a week, working on weekends, but often complains that he's tired. My bf started work a year and a half ago at a well known IT company, where its custom that employees put in long hours. I often feel second to his work, even though he claims its not true.

I understand that with my bf, he has to be reminded of social norms and the importance of reciprocity in a relationship, but doing simple romantic gestures like love notes, calling me during the day to say hi, the occasional flowers, do not come intuitively to him. I have to remind him and even start with the gestures myself, only to get no reply.

I brought up the topic of Aspergers a year ago, but my bf has not gone to seek a professional diagnosis. I don't want to push the topic, but at the same time do not want to marry him if he will not address the issue or seek professional counseling.

I changed the way I communicate with my bf; I am now much more assertive and direct and I am also much more understanding of him after educating myself about Aspergers. But he hasn't done the same.

Is it wrong for me to push for a professional diagnosis and counseling? Can I expect him to improve at being a better partner in our relationship?

I fear that things won't improve after we're married, and that I will be very unhappy.

Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks!

Celina

 

[Soup]

Hi, Celina!

First off, welcome to the forum. I often forget to go say HI to newbies over in the intro section. I'm an Aspie woman married to an Aspie guy. Mine is also a workaholic professional.

I commend you for not turning a blind eye & looking into what may be happening with your partner. Here's the thing, though. What you consider to be 'improvements in being a partner' are probably for him the equivalent of expecting him to become fluent in Medieval Swahili. He is an Aspie. It isn't an entrenched behavioural pattern that can be changed through behaviour modification therapy. It isn't a mental illness. Though some Aspies (same as with NTs) can develop mental illnesses & other disorders like an OCD or agoraphobia for ex., we are not inherently mentally ill: just wired differently. Unless he's engaging in destructive or alarming-type behaviours (such as becoming very aggressive or becoming an alcoholic) there's nothing to 'fix'.

This is a hard concept to make a NT understand. There's a prevalent assumption within mainstream society that all people with neurological differences (NOT diseases such as Lou Gherig's) are defective. Here at Ac, you'll see that the vast majority of us take great issue with this. Remember, too, that until a very short time ago those who were left handed as well as all gay people were considered in need of repair as well. Asperger's is not something that will change very much, abate or 'heal' over time.

I know I'm being rather blunt, but I'd rather tell you the truth as I know it to be than to pepper you with false but soothing platitudes. You, as an NT, live in a world that was designed by & for people like yourself. Therefore, NTs such as yourself have had the privilege of defining what is 'normal & 'good' within relationships: how affection is demonstrated, what a loving gesture is & how it is reciprocated & how a partner should behave. Aspies often (typically!) see these things you consider essential & fundamental to a good relationship to be a bunch of rote, confusing, pointless & un-necessary behaviours.

My husband, for instance NEVER leaves me love notes. He'll never call unexpectedly to say a bunch of romantic stuff to me & he rarely buys cut flowers since he has an ethical issue with the slave labour in Kenya that provides much of the roses sold in our western stores. As an Aspie myself, I don't know what I'd do if he suddenly called & waxed Shakespearean with me: probably ask him if he needs medical attention!

It's wise of you to think ahead & address your feelings & thoughts about this NOW before you're 6 years & 3 kids into a marriage. Some food for thought: YOU may need to be willing to adjust some of your expectations in light of what your future husband is (an Aspie). I too lived with my guy before we were married & I can tell you with certainty that being a wife is NOT the same as being a live-in girlfriend. Some weird things happen with the switch from girlfriend to wife. Expectations are different even though the woman is the same person. Once this truly becomes a signed & sealed deal, little romantic things will become trivial in comparison to the BIG stuff. Before ditching this man, ask yourself a few questions such as:

- Is he mean-spirited & aggressive with me?
- Does he support my efforts at doing things (whether that's making ratatouille or rock climbing) or does he discourage, belittle or undermine me?
- Is he financially responsible & stable <---if he spends wrecklessly or chronically under-earns, you won't give a crap about a few flowers you can buy for yourself!
- Does he respect your family members (possibly from a distance as an Aspie) or cause conflicts?
- Can you trust him? (like does he make goo-goo eyes at your sister). Does he sometimes seem drunk or stoned BUT become evasive or outright lie about it?
- Is his career stable & reliable? <---a biggie if you want to have kids & not starve.

these are some examples of very important things women often look the other way at when the guy is a romantic Casanova. If your Aspie guy ticks all the right boxes on the above brief questionnaire, then you have to rethink what is important. No man is going to be perfect: an ideal provider, look like a Greek God, be as romantic as Casanova, clean cook & iron....

Please don't use his Asperger's or refusal to go get a diagnosis as a threat to sever your partnership. In his shoes, I'd refuse to go as well AND I'd also begin planning my life without you in it. What will you do if (more likely WHEN) he gains a few pounds, goes bald, loses some of his sex drive or possibly develops a life-changing illness or survives a terrible accident that changes him in some way? Please know that you cannot remodel or renovate a guy like you can re-do your room. If he IS an Aspie (& a disproportionate amt of engineers are) the traits you describe are who he is: not something changeable or curable.

 

[King_Oni]

I hope I'm not to blunt, and I honestly wish you the best in your relationship, but I just wanted to chip in

Is it wrong for me to push for a professional diagnosis and counseling?

A professional diagnosis isn't worth a lot for some, especially those fortunate enough to get a degree and a job. It's a tool to get assistance of sorts, but I don't think that said diagnosis will get him into a lot of counseling. Every aspie is different, and just by figuring out him, will take a long while. Also add in he already does 60+ hour weeks... I don't know how counseling and therapy will fit in that schedule, especially since you're also wanting him to spend more time with you.

Think about this; what if, professionals think it's not Aspergers and he's just being a bit quirky. A lot of people are diagnosed with autism, but it's still no diagnosis that's being waved around for free with every carton of milk. Online tests, give an indication that he might be. But what if he isn't? Can you deal with him just being "him"?

Can I expect him to improve at being a better partner in our relationship?

By a better partner, you mean... a better partner in your eyes? For what it's worth, he might not even be aware of the issues you're having. Maybe he feels he's putting enough energy in the relationship and everything is fine. But clearly you're missing out on something. Does this change? Only if he wants to. I'm a firm believer that therapy will not help if you don't want and seek it yourself. If someone is sending someone else to therapy, motivation isn't intrinsic, and it's wasted time and money. He has to believe he has to change stuff. Which makes it also that he wants to be a different partner for himself, and not just a different partner for you.

As for those gestures; I feel that if you're telling him he has to do this; it loses spontaneity. It's like looking at my notes every 4 hours to see what things I have to do to "blend" in. Some stuff just isn't 2nd nature to "us". And as such I stumbled upon people that weren't on the autism spectrum (or any spectrum as far as I know), and they do things that come across weird, and clearly not 2nd nature, all while this is in fact something a lot of people do. Just because a lot of people behave that way, doesn't make it so that everyone has to follow those rules explicitly. As him, how he thinks he shows appreciation, love and affection in your relationship.

Also; You changed your way of communication. Why? And how can you be sure that he picks up these social cues... since stuff like this is grouped among the main traits of people on the spectrum. Does he even care that he's being "clumped" into a new group? Is he aware that he might be someone with Asperger's? If so, what did he say about this? If he doesn't care about it, I don't think a diagnosis is going to help him.

I read a lot of stuff you did, and you feel that because you did stuff, that he didn't specifically ask for, you're entitled to similar treatment. You're making him owe you something he didn't ask for.

The most solid advice I could give is; accept him for who he is. You met and lived with him all these years. Think about the stuff that you like about him, what makes him who he is and what makes him the unique person. That's what you should aim for, not his "quirks" and how they might be annoying. Also; you fear that it won't improve and you'll be very unhappy. What if... he seeks help and he feels unhappy. That's worth an equal amount.

But this is just my 2 cents.

 

[Celina]

Hi Soup,

Thanks for your quick reply and for being so honest with me. As a NT, I am really just getting to understand Aspergers. You asked some really good questions and overall yes, I can trust him, he can provide, and he is supportive of my own career and academic goals. (He is supporting my tuition when I go back to University for a Masters in January).

I know that I have a great guy, whom I love and care deeply about. I guess I just have these expectations in the romantic department that need some recalibrating. (I liked your analogy about doing romantic gestures as to learning medieval Swahili, by the way.)

As for my bf seeking counseling, I will let him decide when he's ready, and perhaps seek counseling for myself. I feel like I have a lot more to learn about Aspergers and i could work on things that will make our relationship a little easier.

Still, it's hard giving up hope that my bf may suddenly become Prince Charming. I am a product of hollywood's romantic comedies I guess!

Thanks again for your insight,

Celina

 

[Celina]

Hi King_Oni!

Well, I gotta say your two cents is worth a whole lot more! I appreciate your "bluntness", it has given me some real food for thought. After reading your post and that of Soup's it's clear to me that I need to learn more about Aspergers and will likely reach out to a therapist myself for some guidance.

I do have to say, when I first learned about Aspergers it was a relief in a way. My bf's social awkwardness was finally explained and I could understand his lack of intuition in situations that are usually so clear to me.

I know that I am not perfect myself, and if he were to ask me to change something about my personality I'd likely run for the hills too.

Thanks for your input,

Celina

 

[Soup]

Glad we could help! I was happy to see that King_Oni showed up with some thoughts: he tends to be good at this kind of thing. I noticed that your idea of romance & love is very Disney-esque. The best thing I can provide here is a reality check: PRINCE CHARMING DOES NOT EXIST! Real men do not behave that way. Real princes (look at Harry & Charles & Prince Albert of Monaco: YUCK!!! I wouldn't poke them with a stick!) aren't all they're cracked up to be either.

Once real married life sets in, all that romantic stuff won't be worth a whit if the big bases I mentioned above aren't covered. These overtly romantic soap opera strategies are typically the fare of con artists & men referred to in the American vernacular as Players. The woman gets swept off her feet & falls into a swoon. She's falling in love with a series of masks. He looks deep into her eyes, tells her how beautiful she is, surprises her with a dozen long stemmed roses 'just because', he calls throughout the day 'just to hear her voice'. (Gotta stop or I'll need an air sick bag!)

This man is at the polar opposite end of the emotional abuse spectrum. At the other end is the guy who keeps a woman off-balance & in an 'unable to think straight' state by bursts of rage, criticism, aggression, ignoring her etc. Usually, the woman soon discovers that her cab accounts have been raided, her credit cards are maxed out, he's not even who he claimed to be & he's wanted by Interpol.

One such famous case was profiled on Oprah. This guy answered online dating profiles of divorcees looking to begin a relationship. He claimed to be French, a martial arts expert (he actually DID do martial arts AND spoke French BUT he was an Israeli con man). He wined, dined & swooned these lonely somewhat plain & frumpy women. They were dazzled by his dark fit looks, his accent & international man of mystery appeal & utterly floored by his romantic gestures. He borrowed money from them but they were so dazzled that they didn't see through the obvious & transparent scam. I'll give you the short version of this story's ending. Turned out he was juggling a bunch (over 10!!!) of these women simultaneously. He had full-blown AIDS & was knowingly spreading it to these women all while bilking them. They're all sick & dying now.

YES, this is an extreme example BUT these Harlequin Romance behaviours are the grooming strategies predatory men employ when they want to swindle & control a woman. Your guy seems to be an authentic genuine person. That is worth so much more than a few story book behaviours. Even if some shrink could convince him to display these behaviours, he would be like someone following a script & it would be forced & phony. He'd only be doing something he didn't want to do or understand the logic of & it would get old fast for him.

As for seeking help for yourself from a therapist, is it really that bad? I know you only provided a brief sketch of your situation, but I don't anything shrink-worthy here: just some skewed expectations. If you do decide to go the shrink route, please find someone who specializes in Asperger's & relationships. Also, please continue posting & reading here. You'll gain a lot of insight into Aspie culture & chat with others like your guy in many ways.

 

[Celina]

Lol.. Soup! Thanks for a good belly laugh!

I hadn't heard about the con-man featured on Oprah. How disgusting!!!

I found a local support group for friends and family and will talk first with the coordinator there. Perhaps a visit or a one on one discussion will give me some more insight. This forum has been great help this far! I've been feeling alone and confused lately, so every bit helps.

Thanks for your insight.. And I will keep you posted with a progress report.

Best,

Celina

 

[smith2267]

Aspie men are honest and faithful. But as adults, they probably aren't going to get any better at the things you mention. Accept him for what he is.

PS, Soup is great, I agree.

 

[OutsideIn]

I'm an aspie woman married to an NT man and I have to say that while I've learned to do some of the traditionally romantic things my husband considers important for him to feel loved, few of them are instinctive and there are a whole lot of things that just don't occur to me to do. However, my husband has learned how I express that I care for him (usually by doing concrete, helpful things, not abstract romantic gestures) and to appreciate those gestures for what they are, so I guess we've learned to meet in the middle.

An aspie-NT relationship is a learning process in which both partners have to essentially learn a second language so they can communicate with each other effectively. I think your efforts to be more explicit with your boyfriend will go a lot way toward making life easier. I definitely feel better when my husband just outright tells me stuff instead expecting me to guess and then feeling bad when I don't "get it."

 

[Loomis]

There are many good features in aspies. They tend to be loyal and honest. Sometimes too honest. Don't ever ask him if a dress makes you look fat unless you really want the truth.

 

[RubenX]

I'm gonna provide my two cents and I'm also might be a little blunt. I hope I don't offend anyone. I'm just talking from my personal past experiences.

Changing the Aspie? Forget it. Perfect men only exist in fairy tales. When ppl feel fed up with our lack of social skills they tend to forget all the other qualities that makes us great. Sure, you can go out and find a very social-savy man out there. But is he gonna be dependable as the Aspie is? Is he gonna be a Faithful husband? Is he gonna provide? Pay the bills?

I have my own share of failed relationships and I do keep communication with some of these women who bailed-out on me, in search for that perfect man. And I tell you, every time I talk with them, they are whining non-stop:

* "This guy never cleans anything around the house". Well, I kept my house very organized. Don't whine now about your messy new husband.
* "I'm so tired, working day and night to barely pay the bills and this guy doesn't help". Well, I paid all the bills when you were with me. Don't whine now about your cheap husband.
* "We are having problems because he keeps fooling around with women". Well, I use to stay in the house with you. But you wanted a social guy, there you go.
* "He's always out with his friends". Same thing, enjoy your new social husband.
* "The energy was cut off because he didn't pay the bill. He spent all the money drinking and partying". Same thing once more, enjoy your new social husband.

...and I could go on and on and fill pages with my ex's complaints about their new partners. Point is, no men out there is "perfect". If being social is more important for you than all the other good qualities your aspie have, go ahead and find a new social guy. Just be aware that any "social guy" will also have traits that you won't like and you will have to deal with those traits instead.

 

[King_Oni]

Heh... actually RubenX makes a good point here about past relationships and how they hold up to current ones.

Here's a question for you Celina;

How many relationships did you have before this? And I mean serious ones, where you lived together and all.

Chances are that even if you would break up with your current boyfriend, and end up with someone that's supposedly not an aspie (since I could understand that his behaviour ticks you off), after years you'll probably find problems with a new guy as well. Granted, they're not the same problems you have now, but they could just as well be the things RubenX adressed; like being to social, being messy, being bad with money, etc.

 

[Mr Faramoose]

that's HORRIBLE about that guy on oprah, even more of a blow to those women after having failed relationships :{ feel kind of mean saying it but it's true, if people have problems with their partner not wanting to go out all the time, surely it's better to have that guy at home safely rather than going out leaving you alone and making you wonder if he's coming back, what hes doing with his money or who hes seeing. Better to be able to have that person in your life and know they aren't going anywhere and that your home is secure instead right?

 

[Celina]

There are many good features in aspies. They tend to be loyal and honest. Sometimes too honest. Don't ever ask him if a dress makes you look fat unless you really want the truth.

Lol, Loomis! I will definitely take that into consideration!



-C

 

[Celina]

Reuben,

Thanks for the 2 cents! I have got to say I think I really needed this blunt advice, you and the other members who have posted here have really given me a wake up call.

I am happy to have found this forum, and I am doing research of my own too. I have a lot to learn, looks like, but I am willing for the sake of our relationship. I really want to make this work!

-C

 

[Celina]

Hi Outsidein,

Thanks for sharing your story, it gives me faith that Aspie - NT relationships can indeed work. I know i have a tendency to beat around the bush, dropping hints everywhere, as it's part of my personality. Being more explicit I think will help me eventually become more assertive in other facets of my life (like at work) too.

I like your analogy of learning a second language as a couple. May I ask how did you, as a couple, work toward improving communication? Can you suggest any books or online literature as a reference?

Thanks,

Celina

 

[Celina]

Chances are that even if you would break up with your current boyfriend, and end up with someone that's supposedly not an aspie (since I could understand that his behaviour ticks you off), after years you'll probably find problems with a new guy as well.

You're absolutely right. (FYI, my current bf is my most serious relationship (5years) my second significant one only lasted a year and half and we did not live together. )

I think what I have been having the most trouble with is just grasping the concept of Aspergers itself. As someone with a very high EQ and intuition scores off-the scales on the Myers-Brigs personality test, I am one of those people who can tell if someone is upset, depressed, annoyed, etc... just by looking and them. I sometimes point it out before they even notice. I just naturally assumed that everyone could relate, but I am realizing now that its more of a talent than a common trait.

Thanks for your input

- celina

 

[OutsideIn]

Celina, I actually have written but not yet posted a long blog entry called "lessons from an Aspergers-NT marriage" where I tried to summarize the most important lessons my husband and I have learned. I could PM you a link when I post it (probably in 2 weeks, I'm just finished up a parenting series) if you like.

In the mean time, I'd recommend "The Journal of Best Practices" which is a great book about and AS-NT marriage and may give you some insight into how your bf's mind works. It's great that you're so interested in learning more about AS and understanding it.

 

[RoboRay]

OutsideIn, could you PM me the links for both whenever you get the chance?

 

[Cerulean]

Thanks for sharing your story, it gives me faith that Aspie - NT relationships can indeed work.

They can absolutely work, it can just take a little longer or look a little stranger. I'm an Aspie woman married to an NT man and we definitely have our struggles, but he's started rephrasing his questions to understand me better- things like "how do you know when you're starting to get overwhelmed, and how can I help it" and "what can I and can't I do around the house when you need your quiet alone time". This is working much better than past relationships where I'd just been told I wasn't social enough, my sensory issues were weird or stupid, and not fake-smiling all the time made people think I didn't like them. Thank you for taking the time to try and understand us and him, I hope to meet more NTs like you and my husband as Aspie/Autie awareness increases.