Agreeableness and autism

[Matthias]

Problem is l question everything. I mean everything. And my agreeableness is based on how many idiots l am surrounded by. All l can truly say is l have lost count.

I was the same way until I used CBT to correct my thinking. I now know they weren't idiots. The reason I thought they were was because I misunderstood them.

Misunderstandings occur when people think differently. That means you are probably misunderstanding other people just as much as they are misunderstanding you. If people reject you or are mean to you, it's not because you're autistic. It's for the same reason you think they're an idiot - because they misunderstood you and weren't aware of it.

 

[MrSpock]

It's for the same reason you think they're an idiot - because they misunderstood you and weren't aware of it.

I've thought that being unaware of misunderstandings is indicative of stupidity, and still to some extent I have to think that being smarter would make a person more likely to recognize misunderstandings when they occur. But I also think that we on the spectrum are more often misunderstood, so we are likely forced to understand misunderstandings more than others.

Is autism ever associated with not only having difficulty understanding how one's actions make other people feel but not even caring?

I suppose that what we care about is determined in part by ourselves, but also by what affects us (we'll care more about things that are significant to our well-being) and by what we can affect - that is, if we can't do much about it we won't worry so much, and if we can change something significant we will tend to study that thing more than something that we can't do anything about.

It makes sense to me that a cold appearance might even do less damage than a more interactive but inappropriate appearance, avoidance of emotional interaction could be a strategy to minimize the hurt caused to others.

If a person feels powerless regarding other's feelings, although they may wish things were otherwise they may be forced to try to ignore it simply to avoid becoming a nervous wreck.

Not sure I really understand the question, but if you mean does a person who can't understand others or make himself understood care about being misunderstood all the time, I would have to think that they do care, or at least start life caring. It makes sense to me that such a person is likely to suffer damage in this area and we might expect a negative consequence in some instances.

 

[Progster]

Is scoring low in agreeableness a personality predictor, not for being on the spectrum, but being officially diagnosed?

I don't understand this question.

Is autism ever associated with not only having difficulty understanding how one's actions make other people feel but not even caring?

No, I don't think so. This is also on a spectrum; many autistic people care deeply about how other people feel, but might not know what to do about it. Others might have rigid opposing view points to another person and seem not to see the other person's point of view, or fail to send out the right ememes or "social noises" so that person might accuse the autistic person of not caring. And there again, some might simply not care because other people's problems or feelings don't affect them. But that's a personality trait, not an autistic trait.

 

[Myrtonos]

I don't understand this question.

Autism is associated with nastiness which may be more pronounced in less agreeable people on the spectrum. Asperger's in particular, is harder to diagnose in women and a lot of women who get diagnosed are tomboys. Women are on average more agreeable than men and it seems that tomboys score on average lower in agreeableness than the general female population.

This is also on a spectrum; many autistic people care deeply about how other people feel, but might not know what to do about it. Others might have rigid opposing view points to another person and seem not to see the other person's point of view, or fail to send out the right ememes or "social noises" so that person might accuse the autistic person of not caring. And there again, some might simply not care because other people's problems or feelings don't affect them. But that's a personality trait, not an autistic trait.

What about the ones who dislike others having authority over them and want to do their own thing, not taking orders without a logical reason? Resistance to peer pressure is touted as an advantage of being an aspie, isn't such resistance disagreeable?
What about those on the spectrum who simply don't like living for other people and finding out what they want? Perhaps this is also a reason why many need their alone time.

 

[Progster]

in less agreeable people

Please define "agreeable."

Autism is associated with nastiness which may be more pronounced in less agreeable people on the spectrum.

'Nastiness" implies intent to be mean, but people on the spectrum (this may also apply to NTs) aren't necessarily intending to be mean. They are often perceived as being mean due to a misunderstanding. Taking "agreeable" to mean a willing to please, this kind of people are often passive-aggressive, in my opinion this is even less desireable than being openly hostile.

What about the ones who dislike others having authority over them and want to do their own thing, not taking orders without a logical reason? Resistance to peer pressure is touted as an advantage of being an aspie, isn't such resistance disagreeable?

I can't process this as a question, it sounds to me like a statement. "What about them" makes it sound like I'm discounting some people, when I'm not, and I just think: well, what about them??? I can't process/answer such questions.

 

[Myrtonos]

Please define "agreeable."

If you've read the previous page, you would have seen this list:

Agreeable consists of facets:
Trust
Straightforwardness
Altruism
Compliance
Modesty
Tender-mindedness

If you are having a rough time and, say a lot of family problems, you might want to tell an agreeable person. They are the sort of people who live for others and find out what they want.

Nastiness" implies intent to be mean, but people on the spectrum (this may also apply to NTs) aren't necessarily intending to be mean.

They might also not be intending not to be mean.

I can't process this as a question, it sounds to me like a statement. "What about them" makes it sound like I'm discounting some people, when I'm not, and I just think: well, what about them??? I can't process/answer such questions.

I know you aren't discounting them, but plenty of aspies are like this, and I'm thinking they might be disagreeable ones.

 

[Progster]

They might also not be intending not to be mean.

That's what I said.

I know you aren't discounting them, but plenty of aspies are like this, and I'm thinking they might be disagreeable ones.

Yes, some aspies (as is also the case with NTs) are more agreeable than others.

 

[Myrtonos]

Yes, some aspies (as is also the case with NTs) are more agreeable than others.

The big question is if the less agreeable ones are more likely to get diagnosed.

 

[Progster]

The big question is if the less agreeable ones are more likely to get diagnosed.

Probably, because they stand out more. Being agreeable is a masking device, those who mask effectively are less likely to be picked up on as having autism by a clinician and diagnosed.

 

[Myrtonos]

So in that case, is autism associated with scoring low in agreeableness?

 

[Progster]

So in that case, is autism, associated with scoring low in agreeableness?

Autism itself isn't associated with agreeableness; that's a personality trait that NTs also may or not not have. Whether an autistic person is spotted by clinicians as having autism and diagnosed may be related to it, as agreeable people blend in more and don't stand out. Autistic people are characterised, among other things, by difficulties in social communication. That might mean any number of things - they may be eager to please, naive, gullible, not understanding and seeing another person's intentions and therefore vulnerable, or they may be rigid and strong-willed, very vocal - this is a matter of personality.

 

[Myrtonos]

My question is not if autism is associated with agreeableness, but if the autistic community has a reputation for scoring low in agreeableness. I wonder how common it is for those who do get diagnosed to not even care how their actions make other people feel.
Like if they think it's necessary for them to talk on and on about a topic and if other people don't like it, it's their problem.

I have done those Big Five tests and score high on agreeableness.

Could this be why you went for your entire childhood without being diagnosed?

 

[Progster]

My question is not if autism is associated with agreeableness,

But you asked, "is autism, associated with scoring low in agreeableness?"

but if the autistic community has a reputation for scoring low in agreeableness.

I don't know. I haven't heard such a thing.

 

[Myrtonos]

I haven't heard such a thing.

I've heard that sort of thing, like of autistic people not taking orders without a logical reason, or aspies being more resistant to peer pressure.

 

[Progster]

I've heard that sort of thing, like of autistic people not taking orders without a logical reason, or aspies being more resistant to peer pressure.

Oh, now that you give these specific examples, rather than just saying "agreeable" which is rather vague, I see your point. I have heard these things, too.

 

[Els]

It's different to not understand how someone else feels and not seem to care VS actually not care about it from start to end. I don't believe many autistic people don't care at all. They might not understand or have an unconventional way to deal with it or just give up because they actually care too much. Because you don't observe that someone is caring/uncaring or agreeable/not agreeable, that doesn't mean that the person actually cares or doesn't care. I've seen myself caring deeply and be called cold, and I've seen people seemingly caring and warm but who didn't caree. It's superficial appearance. I don't believe it says anything true.

 

[Myrtonos]

@Els As different as it may be, there are aspies who don't take orders without a logical reason and really resist peer pressure as already noted, isn't that disagreeable rather than just not understanding how other people feel?

I wonder if some of the most agreeable members are ever told they are too agreeable to have Asperger's, like being so used to living for other people and finding out what they want that they could have it.

 

[Els]

@Els As different as it may be, there are aspies who don't take orders without a logical reason and really resist peer pressure as already noted, isn't that disagreeable rather than just not understanding how other people feel?

I wonder if some of the most agreeable members are ever told they are too agreeable to have Asperger's, like being so used to living for other people and finding out what they want that they could have it.

Well, it's different topics. Caring/uncaring is different than pleasing - at least for me. Maybe I have difficulties understanding through... I just think it's different. I don't believe agreeableness says much about anything at all.

What is Agreeableness? - Learn All About the Big Five Personality Traits | 123test

they say it consists of :
- trust
- morality
- altruism
- cooperation
- modesty
- sympathy

And again, althrough an autistic person might have all of those traits, they might or might not manifest in an "agreeable" way according to others. Others might not rate that highly in agreeableness, but in the inside, it was agreeable. Many times I've been misunderstood while my intentions were strictly "agreeable" (cooperation, warmth, etc, to my mind I was agreeable, but others didn't see that), as well as many times people aren't truly agreeable but make themselves appear to be so.
I don't think it's something that's possible to evaluate concretely, because it depends too much on the viewer's perspective, it seems very subjective for me and to imply a lot of different aspects.
Is it the intention that matters? The behaviour? The interpretation of that behaviour? etc.
I think someone manipulative with bad intentions could even be rated high in agreeableness, and the autistic non verbal person who won't harm anyone can be rated low. I don't understand the concept, I don't see anything of value in rating "my appreciation of someone else" and formulate that as an objective scale, it's highly subjective. It seems more like "appreciation" from other people's perspective and social norms about someone else than anything constant. But again, I think I might fail to understand the concept in the end.
I think that yes, there's the possibility of the autistic person scoring high in agreeableness as much as there's the possibility to score low. I don't believe it's related.
Also, disagreeing with people and not taking orders doesn't mean that you're disagreeable. It's not objective. The fact that some or most people don't like you to disagree doesn't make your disagreeing disagreable depending on the way you express it. If it's expressed politely and agreeably, it's more a problem of agreeableness from the other person than from the person who disagrees to take an order he doesn't want to.

I made a test and have an average score (trust low, honesty high, altruism average, cooperation average, modesty high, sympathy low). Althrough that score is average, people told me regularily that i'm "wild", "snob", "cold", "intolerant", "impolite", and so on. I appear to be disagreeable for some people and for some others I don't appear like that, it really depends on their interpretations. I don't really know what to think about agreeableness, I think there's something I might be missing in the concept. It's interesting through.

 

[LogicalMind]

Myrtonos my friend...
I contemplate this often...
Autism is apparently a communication disorder... I think perhaps over time, we become desensitized and become apathetic... but I believe autism in and of itself, poses no correlation to apathy...

Simply put... autistic people can care, and still communicate wrong/offend people xD
: We can try to be agreeable, and still be perceived as not agreeable.

 

[Matthias]

I've thought that being unaware of misunderstandings is indicative of stupidity, and still to some extent I have to think that being smarter would make a person more likely to recognize misunderstandings when they occur.

Misunderstandings aren't due to a lack of intelligence. I have above average intelligence and I misunderstood people often until recently. It was because I had distorted beliefs about myself. I thought I was different than most people which is a cognitive distortion known as black and white thinking. That distorted belief caused stress which altered how my brain worked which caused me to think people were being mean to me when it was just the stress that caused me to misunderstand. Research has shown that unconscious emotions caused by distorted beliefs result in misunderstandings and a variety of psychological issues.

But I also think that we on the spectrum are more often misunderstood

That's true for anyone who acts abnormally, whether they have autism, an anxiety disorder, a mood disturbance, hypochrondria, or a poorly understood medical condition (such as fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue syndrome).

so we are likely forced to understand misunderstandings more than others.

Many times I misinterpreted statements like "you don't look autistic" as other people doubting me or trying to be mean to me. I had no idea I misunderstood until overcame stress I didn't know I had by learning about emotions and understanding myself better