Almost married to - and a step parent of - undiagnosed aspies

[Bella Pines]

Firstly that sounds wonderful! Your own business, a masters, artist, cowgirl, you sound so amazingly interesting it's no wonder you have caught his attention!

As you have noticed, aspies are generally apart from others, we have a lot going on in our heads, we absorb a lot of information and need time to process it. We act from the head and not our hearts, we are logical to a fault and have focused special interests. As his quirky traits come to light, post them here and someone will be able to shed some light into it.

I want to know how to influence her behavior in a positive constructive way. My close friends & family have expressed concern that something is wrong (even "retarded") but both her father and grandmother, who babysits several days a week, believe she is extremely advanced for her age when it's obvious to anyone who interacts with her that she's somewhat behind.

Okay WOOOAHH there, or whatever you would say when a horse bolts out of control. This started well, we must understand our children in order to help them. And it is a truth, having "all of the responsibility, none of the power" is the path to failure.

But patience. The child is TWO. You have an infinite well of energy and will want to see progress NOW. But this isn't an overnight fix.

Firstly, this has absolutely nothing to do with your close friends and family. I know that neurotypicals value other people's opinions but aspies do not, aspies work off facts. Secondly, "behind" has little meaning, you can't compare children, they all have their strengths.

So what are the actual problems? Is she throwing things? Biting? Not interacting with other babies is not a problem, it's simply something she does differently.

So I would say slow down, pace yourself, try to tackle the actual problems in a calm and measured way and stop hopping up and down and insisting on diagnosing things that will present themselves naturally in time.

I did bring one of my concerns up tonight after I had tried unsuccessfully to get her attention for about 5 minutes. I was in her face, saying her name, touching her, and asking her to look at me.

Which sounds like aspie hell. If someone did that to me I would punch them. Callllmmmm down

 

[J3ss!ca]

Yes, he has many wonderful qualities. However, his attitude toward the outside world and socialization is causing me a lot of concern -- thank you so much for helping to clarify my thoughts about the situation! I suspected that unless he was totally on board with the diagnostic process that an evaluation would be a waste of time so thanks for confirming that. I'm hoping I can bring some of these things up soon but she needs full attention 100% of the time so having a conversation when she's around is impossible. The drama & stress is daily and even though he tries hard to influence her behavior, it's not getting any better.

On a totally different note, I noticed your reference to Temple Grandin in your signature. She is one of my heroes and I'll be attending one of her seminars, for the second time, in a few weeks!

I find this extremely troubling. We don't even need to bring possible Autism Spectrum issues into the mix; this attitude alone might have created a three year old who behaves in the way you describe.

You are being expected to undertake the care and socialization of this little girl, yet it sounds impossible to advance her skills while complying with their demands. You wouldn't be able to get truthful evaluations and advice from professionals, or apply your own knowledge, because they have already set bizarre and counterproductive limitations on what you can teach her.

It sounds to me that whatever this man's challenges, he is not viewing them clearly and only making excuses for not really addressing them. I am sure he has many fine qualities or you wouldn't be contemplating marriage, but this involves a child he wants you to be responsible for, and yet not be able to care for her in a way you think best.

The equation is known as "all of the responsibility, none of the power" and it is always doomed to frustration and failure.

 

[J3ss!ca]

Well thank you for not taking offense to what I have told you, as in retrospect I could see that I may come across as harsh. For what it's worth I was kind of like step daughter(except I was a boy let me make that clear, I'm a man now) my parents say that I was young for my age and "busy baby" their words not mine. I could see how if your stepdaughter is going back and fourth between parents that could have a negative impact on her develpmentally What really concerns me about your step daughter is not responding to her name, because that seem to me that she is cognitively behind or has been trained to not respond to her name.

It seems to me that your partner's approach to raising his daughter is being warped by unresolved past trauma or PTSD.Is this possible?

I think you're absolutely right about his approach being warped by trauma/PTSD. The more I think about it, that's probably the first issue that needs to be addressed.

"Busy baby" is an apt description for her and I'm happy with her being young for her age and developing on her own schedule. What concerns me more is that her caregivers view her odd/dangerous behavior as "advanced" and aren't acknowledging or helping her build vital skills that she lacks. Not that I can place any blame. It took me many months to realize that she doesn't know her name and that her lack of response is abnormal. I too thought her behavior was due to the stress caused by all the back and forth, but just lately began to think there might be more going on.

 

[J3ss!ca]

Firstly that sounds wonderful! Your own business, a masters, artist, cowgirl, you sound so amazingly interesting it's no wonder you have caught his attention!

Why thank you!

As you have noticed, aspies are generally apart from others, we have a lot going on in our heads, we absorb a lot of information and need time to process it. We act from the head and not our hearts, we are logical to a fault and have focused special interests. As his quirky traits come to light, post them here and someone will be able to shed some light into it.

This sounds so much like my man. And I love him for it. One quirk is that he comes up with elaborate schemes to decipher how people think. He'll ask very-carefully-designed bizarre questions that are supposed to reveal some hidden truth. Sometimes his reasoning is based on faulty information as he spends more time in his head than in the "real world" but his instincts are usually right on.

Okay WOOOAHH there, or whatever you would say when a horse bolts out of control. This started well, we must understand our children in order to help them. And it is a truth, having "all of the responsibility, none of the power" is the path to failure.

But patience. The child is TWO. You have an infinite well of energy and will want to see progress NOW. But this isn't an overnight fix.

Firstly, this has absolutely nothing to do with your close friends and family. I know that neurotypicals value other people's opinions but aspies do not, aspies work off facts. Secondly, "behind" has little meaning, you can't compare children, they all have their strengths.

So what are the actual problems? Is she throwing things? Biting? Not interacting with other babies is not a problem, it's simply something she does differently.

So I would say slow down, pace yourself, try to tackle the actual problems in a calm and measured way and stop hopping up and down and insisting on diagnosing things that will present themselves naturally in time.

Haha, fair enough, I deserved that! I would say the most serious problem is lack of awareness coupled with being unable to get her attention. She bolts. Directly into the path of a galloping horse, a moving car, into a crowd -- it doesn't matter. It's very hard to hang on to her, and while she'll sometimes respond to direct commands like "stop!", she doesn't respond to her name at all. If I turn my back, she's gone. I'll find her, 10 seconds later, trying to get into a stranger's house or hiding behind boxes on a shelf in the store. It's terrifying. Trying to restrain her in any social setting results in screaming.

The other thing that's causing me a lot of stress is the hour-long drama full of shrieking, goofing off, crying, hitting, and time outs, in order to get her to eat a bite of food. Her dad wants her to sit at the table and eat her food at dinner time and often, once she takes that first bite, she'll realize she likes it and will eat some more. She doesn't use utensils and still gets spoon fed.

Once she focuses on an object, nothing can break her attention as she does her best to destroy it. While I appreciate her trying to understand her world, this isn't appropriate when it comes to other people's things and if you insist she give it to you, she'll throw it instead. She shrieks a lot which is usually just annoying, but embarrassing out in public!

I'm also somewhat concerned that she doesn't know her name and doesn't seem to comprehend many of the words she says. She'll say phrases and words over and over, but the number of words that she connects to objects/concepts is very limited. She loves to interact, but on her terms only. "That's a goat. Can you say 'goat'?" gets no response, even if she's babbling and pointing at the goat. She plays alone until she wants something, in which case, she'll try to pull little kids off the couch in order to get them to dance or what have you. She's also recently starting hitting a lot.

My hurry about all this is simply that I'm getting pressure about marriage and buying a place together every day, yet my concerns about her behavior are going unheard. If anything, her behavior has worsened over the past few months yet her dad does not see any of it as problematic and is convinced most of it is an asset. I want to come to an agreement on how we will deal with her behavior before moving in together and I was hoping that professional recommendations would help. My lack of enthusiasm at trying to find a place is freaking my man out so I'm trying to figure out how to broach the subject ASAP.

Which sounds like aspie hell. If someone did that to me I would punch them. Callllmmmm down

Hahaha, I've never been that intense with her before. It was more of an experiment to see if I could get her attention without physically dragging her to the table or yelling at her which is what her dad usually does. It didn't work so I can see why he does it his way!

 

[Rayner]

Now I'm just a 19 year old cowboy on the internet, I don't have the Fancy college degrees it take to give a " professional advice" but I've got some real world smarts that may be of some use to you.

I think that is approach being warped is the first think that needs to be addressed, too because in my mind until this is addressed his approach will only grow up with his daughter. Does that makes sense?

Your concern of her caregivers view of her odd/dangerous behavior is a well founded concern, at the same time you need to realize that her dad's perception and especially grandma's is probably based on how her father was growing up and to a certain extend her perception is a valuable one as chances are she and her daddy are a lot like.

I'm not trying to make light of your step daughters issues, but I will also tell that most of the things that your step daughter does is also typical 2.5 year old behavior. Plus I wouldn't underestimate how much going back and fourth between two homes is for a child. Now it is embaressing when she shrieks in public, but that is typical two year old behavior, but I think that is more your for lack of better words your fear of judges aka you care about what others think of you as a parent only in reality every parent has been in that same spot as you before.

Does it all makes sense? what I'm saying.

I think you're absolutely right about his approach being warped by trauma/PTSD. The more I think about it, that's probably the first issue that needs to be addressed.

"Busy baby" is an apt description for her and I'm happy with her being young for her age and developing on her own schedule. What concerns me more is that her caregivers view her odd/dangerous behavior as "advanced" and aren't acknowledging or helping her build vital skills that she lacks. Not that I can place any blame. It took me many months to realize that she doesn't know her name and that her lack of response is abnormal. I too thought her behavior was due to the stress caused by all the back and forth, but just lately began to think there might be more going on.

 

[Rayner]

I forgot to mention one thing, earlier you said that wanted to know how to positively effect her behavior.
I'm inclined to think that the most important think you for her especially as she get's older is being a model of a strong and independent woman.

 

[WereBear]

On a totally different note, I noticed your reference to Temple Grandin in your signature. She is one of my heroes and I'll be attending one of her seminars, for the second time, in a few weeks!

I am a longtime rescuer and now I am working on a book about cats.

 

[Bella Pines]

I'm inclined to think that the most important think you for her especially as she get's older is being a model of a strong and independent woman.

Totally agree with this, I wish I had grown up with this influence and someone who would fight my corner.

He'll ask very-carefully-designed bizarre questions that are supposed to reveal some hidden truth. Sometimes his reasoning is based on faulty information as he spends more time in his head than in the "real world" but his instincts are usually right on.

I do that all the time. The other day my mother in law asked if I wanted a cup of tea, I said yes, but there was only 1 teabag left. She sighed and said "oh I was looking forward to sitting down with a cup of tea, but you can have the last one". I then spent 10 minutes discussing the intricacies of martyr syndrome and how because her father had put her down, she actually engineers situations whereby she suffers and can play the martyr because she associates that with love. She just stared at me and after an awkward silence suggested that we use one teabag in both cups....

She bolts. Directly into the path of a galloping horse, a moving car, into a crowd -- it doesn't matter. It's very hard to hang on to her, and while she'll sometimes respond to direct commands like "stop!", she doesn't respond to her name at all. If I turn my back, she's gone. I'll find her, 10 seconds later, trying to get into a stranger's house or hiding behind boxes on a shelf in the store. It's terrifying. Trying to restrain her in any social setting results in screaming.

Ouch, how awful, as a mother myself, this is a really heartbreaking problem. So there's 2 main issues, her lack of awareness of the outside world and her resistance to authority or restraints. As a child I lived in my own world and would climb out my window and run off into the forest on my own. That was in the 70s and so parents in general didn't really understand how dangerous that can be. As she gets older, if she does have aspergers then logic will get through to her, but she is probably too young to understand. And giving her freedom doesn't work at this age either.

But equally, aspergers is not an excuse to run riot. And that's IF she actually has aspergers and as mentioned above, isn't just mimicking her father.

So I still have the inclination to run away and rebel against authority but I have learned control. I still don't believe in social niceties but I know where the boundaries are, maybe this might help:

Behaviour and Discipline issues for children with Autism

The other thing that's causing me a lot of stress is the hour-long drama full of shrieking, goofing off, crying, hitting, and time outs, in order to get her to eat a bite of food. Her dad wants her to sit at the table and eat her food at dinner time and often, once she takes that first bite, she'll realize she likes it and will eat some more. She doesn't use utensils and still gets spoon fed.

But this is not dangerous. There has to be some give and take. I would say choose your battles and leave a plate of food next to whatever is entrancing her. I only used to eat if I found the food itself interesting, and even then I would only eat like 1 thing. This is only really a problem if she becomes malnourished.

Once she focuses on an object, nothing can break her attention as she does her best to destroy it. While I appreciate her trying to understand her world, this isn't appropriate when it comes to other people's things and if you insist she give it to you, she'll throw it instead. She shrieks a lot which is usually just annoying, but embarrassing out in public!

Focused attention is aspergers but destruction is something else, maybe a reaction to her parents new situation or something? The focus is something you can manage, give her that toy at home and avoid situations that would lead to this. The annoyance and embarrassment however, isn't her problem, it's yours. Your embarrassment isn't a real problem, it's just a side effect of societal indoctrination.

She'll say phrases and words over and over, but the number of words that she connects to objects/concepts is very limited.

Yeah, sounds like a real problem:

Why Does My Child With Autism Echo Words and Sounds?

If anything, her behavior has worsened over the past few months yet her dad does not see any of it as problematic and is convinced most of it is an asset.

Try logic.

I understand his position (obviously) and I see my behaviors as a asset, I also push people away and isolate myself and see this as victory. The issue is probably being clouded by minor issues, like wondering off at meal times, being embarrassed and other peoples opinions. These strike me as trivial. Also his problems are irrelevant, I survived over 40 years without an aspergers diagnosis and got on just fine.

But underneath all that, there are some real problems. The 2 most obvious ones, which no one can surely argue with is the bolting, running off in car parks and inability to communicate. Ask him how exactly she is going to get a job if she can't talk? And that's only if she survives that long. Now they are real problems.

So how about cutting a logical deal whereby if he agrees to "allows you" to get help for just these issues, then the relationship can continue. Of course once the professionals are involved then you are in control and have your way.

Also, another aspie secret is that we have narrow interests and normal life is a bother for us, so seal the deal by saying that you'll sort it all out and he doesn't have to worry about anything, he won't be able to resist that

 

[WereBear]

I am starting to see how the child's father and paternal grandmother might be working on a "what we did raising you, fiancee, did not work, we must do something different" but that alone is not going to be success-oriented.

 

[J3ss!ca]

Now I'm just a 19 year old cowboy on the internet, I don't have the Fancy college degrees it take to give a " professional advice" but I've got some real world smarts that may be of some use to you.

I think that is approach being warped is the first think that needs to be addressed, too because in my mind until this is addressed his approach will only grow up with his daughter. Does that makes sense?

Yes, I think you're right.

Your concern of her caregivers view of her odd/dangerous behavior is a well founded concern, at the same time you need to realize that her dad's perception and especially grandma's is probably based on how her father was growing up and to a certain extend her perception is a valuable one as chances are she and her daddy are a lot like.

You're right, their evaluation of her based entirely on how he was growing up. That is their normal.

I'm not trying to make light of your step daughters issues, but I will also tell that most of the things that your step daughter does is also typical 2.5 year old behavior. Plus I wouldn't underestimate how much going back and fourth between two homes is for a child. Now it is embaressing when she shrieks in public, but that is typical two year old behavior, but I think that is more your for lack of better words your fear of judges aka you care about what others think of you as a parent only in reality every parent has been in that same spot as you before.

Does it all makes sense? what I'm saying.

Yes it does, and while a lot of her behavior is just being a 2 year old, the normal ways I've worked with children in the past just don't seem to be working. As far as the shrieking goes, every 20 minutes or so, for no reason, she'll scream at the top of her lungs. It hurts my ears from 20 feet away. Next to her it's painful. While initially I was embarrassed to bring her in public, now I'm more concerned for her safety and the rejection she's experiencing.

 

[J3ss!ca]

I forgot to mention one thing, earlier you said that wanted to know how to positively effect her behavior.
I'm inclined to think that the most important think you for her especially as she get's older is being a model of a strong and independent woman.

Thank you for the encouragement.

I am a longtime rescuer and now I am working on a book about cats.

That's so interesting!

I am starting to see how the child's father and paternal grandmother might be working on a "what we did raising you, fiancee, did not work, we must do something different" but that alone is not going to be success-oriented.

I see it the same way.

 

[J3ss!ca]

Totally agree with this, I wish I had grown up with this influence and someone who would fight my corner.

This is the role I would like to play.

I do that all the time. The other day my mother in law asked if I wanted a cup of tea, I said yes, but there was only 1 teabag left. She sighed and said "oh I was looking forward to sitting down with a cup of tea, but you can have the last one". I then spent 10 minutes discussing the intricacies of martyr syndrome and how because her father had put her down, she actually engineers situations whereby she suffers and can play the martyr because she associates that with love. She just stared at me and after an awkward silence suggested that we use one teabag in both cups....

How I would have loved to be there! You sound delightful.

Ouch, how awful, as a mother myself, this is a really heartbreaking problem. So there's 2 main issues, her lack of awareness of the outside world and her resistance to authority or restraints. As a child I lived in my own world and would climb out my window and run off into the forest on my own. That was in the 70s and so parents in general didn't really understand how dangerous that can be. As she gets older, if she does have aspergers then logic will get through to her, but she is probably too young to understand. And giving her freedom doesn't work at this age either.

But equally, aspergers is not an excuse to run riot. And that's IF she actually has aspergers and as mentioned above, isn't just mimicking her father.

So I still have the inclination to run away and rebel against authority but I have learned control. I still don't believe in social niceties but I know where the boundaries are, maybe this might help:

Behaviour and Discipline issues for children with Autism

Thank you for the resource. I know the way I've dealt with most children isn't working with her so I'm definitely ready for a different approach.

But this is not dangerous. There has to be some give and take. I would say choose your battles and leave a plate of food next to whatever is entrancing her. I only used to eat if I found the food itself interesting, and even then I would only eat like 1 thing. This is only really a problem if she becomes malnourished.

You're absolutely right and this is not something I would choose to fight with her about every night. Her father insists on it though and vehemently disagrees with my suggestion to withhold snacks prior to dinner and then just let her eat if she feels like it. I know the situation is stressful for her as well.

Focused attention is aspergers but destruction is something else, maybe a reaction to her parents new situation or something? The focus is something you can manage, give her that toy at home and avoid situations that would lead to this. The annoyance and embarrassment however, isn't her problem, it's yours. Your embarrassment isn't a real problem, it's just a side effect of societal indoctrination.

True. Although her fascination is less with toys and more with other objects. We can't afford to be replacing other people's phones and household items! Also, she likes hard, breakable objects. I've found shards of glass up on the counter from items that she somehow was able to reach so there is some risk of her hurting herself. I've been trying to set aside embarrassment and just focus on what's good for her. But one thing that's difficult is that she's either not welcome, or I'm can't bring her to other people's houses because I can't afford to replace their things.

Yeah, sounds like a real problem:

Why Does My Child With Autism Echo Words and Sounds?

Thank you!

Try logic.

I understand his position (obviously) and I see my behaviors as a asset, I also push people away and isolate myself and see this as victory. The issue is probably being clouded by minor issues, like wondering off at meal times, being embarrassed and other peoples opinions. These strike me as trivial. Also his problems are irrelevant, I survived over 40 years without an aspergers diagnosis and got on just fine.

But underneath all that, there are some real problems. The 2 most obvious ones, which no one can surely argue with is the bolting, running off in car parks and inability to communicate. Ask him how exactly she is going to get a job if she can't talk? And that's only if she survives that long. Now they are real problems.

So how about cutting a logical deal whereby if he agrees to "allows you" to get help for just these issues, then the relationship can continue. Of course once the professionals are involved then you are in control and have your way.

Also, another aspie secret is that we have narrow interests and normal life is a bother for us, so seal the deal by saying that you'll sort it all out and he doesn't have to worry about anything, he won't be able to resist that

He believes she is very advanced verbally and doesn't see her lack of connecting words to concepts as a problem or that she lacks even nonverbal communication skills. He says they think just alike and he knows what she's thinking so doesn't believe there's a problem. A common theme is, "I don't know many 2 yr olds who can say, "1, 2, 5..." so she's way ahead. But it seems she's just echoing the numbers. She does not count while manipulating objects.

He also likes that she wanders and bolts because it shows that she's independent and not succumbing to peer pressure. He likes that she doesn't respond to her name, look at people, or listen (even though he gets angry when she doesn't listen to him) because that means she's thinking her own thoughts.

I do like your logical deal! I'm going to work on making that happen.

 

[Bella Pines]

They are SO lucky to have you! Best of luck...