An Experience I Thought of as Impossible

[Neri]

You can have proof for yourself, undeniable proof of God, and is not true is not based on reason, even you can have His presence on you every day, anyway even if God appeared on the sky i doubt the world would change much, people are like that, when Jesus was here a lot of people didn't believe either.

IT's not "You have to see it to believe it," it's you have to believe it to see it.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I had an out of body experience during my stroke of course as an agnostic I sought an explanation as it was happening see my physics thread. I even got a message as I reentered my body. which blew me away and made perfect sense, From this point on kept getting messages or epiphanies. which lead me down a path related to my rare blood type. Ether way I'm still agnostic, even through some entity appears determined to make me question this.

 

[All-Rounder]

Yeah, typical atheist wanting proof, not attacking you, just that is like that a lot of times, the world screams of spirituality, a bunch of rocks in space can't end up as science beauty etc. It's ridiculous also to think an amoeba ended up as a banana, ant, and human, etc, you can meet Jesus, and have proof of the Holy spirit, millions of mentally sane people give testimony. But atheists usually say Christians have low standards for evidence, or are hallucinating etc, is not like that at all.

There are people giving testimony of Ganapati, are you going to hail Ganapati his grace because of it?

"a bunch of rocks in space can't end up as science beauty" and perfectly functional, but people ignore the evidence that explains these things. Beauty is in the eye of a beholder, what I create may disgust you. I don't like cockroaches, I don't think they're beautiful, and wild birds are hardly efficient at egg laying which their life depends on.

"the world screams of spirituality" - is somebody seeing ghosts on a daily basis or something, what in the world? I'm surrounded by matter that has been tested and documented through science plenty, and the invisible matter is still detectable. Though there were endless attempts to discover the supernatural, we have no evidence of it

"to think an amoeba ended up as a banana, ant, and human, etc," - hold on, they don't shapeshift; its ridiculous for biology beginners like us to think about genetic engineering, bioengineering, but alas, it is being done on animals and plants as we speak. If humans had the answer to evolution so easily, it wouldn't have needed so long for the massive amount of evidence to be discovered, we're not particularly efficient and we're slow, most of us don't compete with Darwin's thinking efficiency neither with his determination

"you can meet Jesus, and have proof of the Holy spirit, millions of mentally sane people give testimony." I know how it works, I used to fool myself into thinking that Jesus heard me or that he was talking to me and guiding me, and I'm not anymore. That's a very happy event. People do that about practically anything. A lot of them even lie consciously generally due to panic, comfort or gain.

"Christians have low standards for evidence, or are hallucinating etc, is not like that at all." Believe it or not, people of faith have said their faith is practically just faith, and not evidence based, and it's the most self-aware and accurate stance in my opinion. The Bible often encourages the blind faith, mysterious ways of working that you supposedly can't question in a progress-expecting way with your mind. And atheists say that it was how they now perceive religion to have been for them, too, because they have come to that realization. Once they started questioning and putting things together they were able to understand what happened. A lot of Christians struggle with questioning and discrepancies in their faith, and there are many answers that lead to the same result, same loop, specifically that you have to have faith. But I would be very hopeful if people don't ignore evidence, I think it's very important in life. People have worked so hard to give us the progress and medicine we have today.

 

[All-Rounder]

Well Hypnalis is just trying to be friendly, fair, and helpful.

 

[All-Rounder]

"Evidence of common descent of living organisms has been discovered by scientists researching in a variety of disciplines over many decades, demonstrating that all life on Earth comes from a single ancestor."

Therefore, we share a common ancestor with the banana, and different single cell organisms evolved in different ways, on different branches of the ancestral tree. So the same amoeba wouldn't be everything. It's just the same type of cellular organism. They went their own way to create variety likely according to the events, substances and challenges encountered in the medium, or the primordial soup and so forth.

 

[Jonn]

I had an out of body experience during my stroke of course as an agnostic I sought an explanation as it was happening see my physics thread. I even got a message as I reentered my body. which blew me away and made perfect sense, From this point on kept getting messages or epiphanies. which lead me down a path related to my rare blood type. Ether way I'm still agnostic, even through some entity appears determined to make me question this.

"You be you."

 

[Andrew Is Not Funny]

Okay, guys... I'm back after a few months, my mind is calmed now and I just want to say... I really didn't want this thread to turn into this if you know what I mean. It is really weird to me that people feel the fundamental need to react like this when I share something so personal and not hurtful, you know. It is especially weird for me to see it in a community for Autistic people, who are very misunderstood by others to begin with. You all may continue with this if you want to, I can't and don't really want to do anything about it but I just feel as if I have to express that it really discomforts me. It's not that I can't or don't want to defend my faith or my other values and beliefs. I don't think we need to (basically) try to intellectually humiliate people who didn't even try to practice any hatred. If you want to prove my (and not others's or a convenient caricature's) faith to be hurtful or destructive to begin with then try to prove me to be a definitely hurtful or destructive person first. Again, I don't say this to be snarky, I only mean this as quite the opposite, a plea for basic intellectual respect. This is not some kind of debate show anyway but I don't want to experience that type of athmosphere anywhere, at least not anymore and especially not when I am expressing an intense personal experience which doesn't hurt anybody. Go on if you must. Here, I only wrote down what I felt like I needed to write down.

 

[Rachie]

Please don't talk down to me for this or get offended but...
I was an Atheist for 7 years but in the past few days I think I suddenly became Christian. No denomination, just the essence of Christianity. Christianity in the most literal sense for me.
It came after a long hyperfocused conversation with my mother about spirituality. That unfortunately happens often because of how her views influence what she says.
I tried listening, expecting it to be another case of her talking down to me on this topic. But then it all made sense, it clicked, one logical piece after the other. I couldn't unsee it.
I feel as if the words and actions of Jesus are the most honest version of what I would have said and done if I lived during his time and circumstances. I also think all of what he did can be perfectly explained metaphysically. It all fits together in a relatable but rational way.
It is strange. What I thought of as Christianity was always Catholicism and other churches. Not this pure experience where it all fits together seemlessly.
How can I deal with this? Am I just "deceived" because I am "dysfunctional"? I am just searching for the truth and a framework for it as always, ever since I was born.

I wish you well on your Christian journey. People seemed to certainly be putting a lot of energy into this thread which may choke up some peoples energy and it is summer for a lot of us now. I am sorry that this thread turned into what it has for you.

 

[All-Rounder]

"intellectually humiliate people" yeah exactly. Why did you think I was working so hard, because people who don't know atheism tend to accuse that, and it's already hard to explain for Atheists but it's worth it. Belief in no deities and striving to be close to a scientific understanding is not intellectual humiliation, not by intention anyway. It is practically the best way we have to deliberate on things.

Of course there are people who don't know any better and actually intend that (and some people are on ignore for me so dunno what I missed but I can have a clue), but I don't believe in it. This is why you have people switching faith to no faith, or opposite, you can't say their IQ dropped suddenly or rose, they're still the same person. It's not about ability and capacity, we all have it, but we aren't all trained in using our critical thinking skills (and applying them universally) because that doesn't get taught in schools and we can always make thinking mistakes, some willfully, but most without realizing that send us on a path we aren't fully understanding.

I recognize my thinking mistakes, from my religious and atheist times. I make mistakes on a daily basis, it's just human. The fact that I know I don't always know and I care about mistakes helps guide me. Atheism doesn't grant you immunity, you still have to question especially in things you haven't yet dealt with and you can still have biases unfortunately. And I hate those as much as the religious ones, maybe even more in some circumstances because it makes clearing up the bias more tedious for Atheists (for ones who understand the difference between a stupid person and a religious one).

I think experience makes a huge difference because common example:
Person has been raised without atheism knowledge but can't call themselves a believer, reaches maturity, is fascinated by religion, all the feelings the stories can light up in them and a feeling of belonging and gratitude, which are at the basis of our social bonds. We're built to have them. That doesn't mean they actually were exposed to Atheist communities or parental explanations. I consider it the parents did most of the work necessary for that child to be able to be an atheist, and eventually the adult doesn't have the same knowledge amount as the parents.
And this actually often happens because Atheists hate indoctrinating their children to a belief or the other, and don't touch on those subjects to not harm the child's development. Of course this is not always the case.

Common example 2:
You have never been an atheist and suddenly believe they're the worst or you are very afraid of them because that's what has been taught to you or is a common bias, or the courage it takes to go against religious belief would be of deviant category. When ppl have no way of experiencing what it's like, they can assume it's not moral based or other things.

I think it's common for Atheists to switch faith, I hear of it pretty often in Atheist communities. It could be more often but it's not uncommon in my book and definitely not impossible even if you have a strong atheist ground, I mean I struggled with my Atheist beliefs for a while too until I found answers. I wouldn't say I was atheistically based, I was a beginner. And we do learn throughout our lives.

Anyway you were the Atheist that didn't think that humiliating people's intellect was the way to go, and I hope you continue to think that way whether or not you'll be an atheist. But again I'd like to ask people be cautious, not all Atheists will stray from this way of thinking. Most don't believe this and will have high expectations from believers and their (par your example) intellectual performance.

My intellect (barely, honestly you need much more than that) and many other values brought me to Atheism and I know everyone can do the same. But some people spend their whole lives not doing it for a reason or another .

I am practically intellectually disabled in multiple ways, I learn slower than other kids and adults, I have trouble remembering things, difficulty with social skills etc. maybe a lot of us are. It'd be a complete mistake of comprehension to say that I can't be intellectually disabled and an Atheist. It's hard for me to explain atheism and remember words often but I do my best. The process is slow but we can reach some thought that is so vastly different from the initial, I have a lot of "faith" (trust) in never giving up learning.

 

[lunarious]

... It is really weird to me that people feel the fundamental need to react like this when I share something so personal and not hurtful, you know. It is especially weird for me to see it in a community for Autistic people, who are very misunderstood by others to begin with. You all may continue with this if you want to, I can't and don't really want to do anything about it but I just feel as if I have to express that it really discomforts me. It's not that I can't or don't want to defend my faith or my other values and beliefs.

In my homeland we says: "He/she whom likes you Neutralizes you". e.g. wolves or Lions bite alot. Lions and feline apex predators are very violent. ... You are luck you have your Mom, reminds me of mine (i read the opening)

I don't think we need to (basically) try to intellectually humiliate people who didn't even try to practice any hatred.

The verb to humiliate has a bad feeling to it, but if you say humble (a noun) which is the same word it has good feeling.