an eye contact contract?

[wadorama]

I always try to make eye contact. As others have said it shows respect and interest as well.

even if you feel neither in the interaction in question?

 

[Full Steam]

even if you feel neither in the interaction in question?

If I'm speaking to someone I have no respect for or interest in, I'm usually just trying to politely escape.

No point in talking to people in that case.

But if you don't know them I think it's important to assume respect and interest until proven wrong.

 

[wadorama]

If I'm speaking to someone I have no respect for or interest in, I'm usually just trying to politely escape.

No point in talking to people in that case.

But if you don't know them I think it's important to assume respect and interest until proven wrong.

food for thought. thanks for it.

 

[WereBear]

It seems “off” to someone expecting eye contact to not get it. It feels like they are being ignored, socially erased. It comes off as rude and dismissive.

I think many of us avoid it because it often kindles deep feelings in us, while for NTs it is just a social signal.

 

[wadorama]

It seems “off” to someone expecting eye contact to not get it. It feels like they are being ignored, socially erased. It comes off as rude and dismissive.

I think many of us avoid it because it often kindles deep feelings in us, while for NTs it is just a social signal.

true. if i am looking at you i am doing so with intention rather than for casual interaction. because i like you, because i want to feel connected to you, or maybe just because i like to look into your eyes. for me it is...intimate. but i am learning (late!) that it is an expected norm.

 

[Fitzo]

There is a saying that the eyes are 'the windows to the soul' so if people can't see them they assume you're hiding something. Also talking to someone who isn't looking back at you feels like they aren't really listening to you. It forms a connection between two people that is missing without eye contact.

 

[wadorama]

hey Fitzo. always happy to read your wisdom. not doing so well at the moment. =o( hope you are.

 

[Full Steam]

There is a saying that the eyes are 'the windows to the soul' so if people can't see them they assume you're hiding something. Also talking to someone who isn't looking back at you feels like they aren't really listening to you. It forms a connection between two people that is missing without eye contact.

Ironically, that was always one of the problems for me.

It felt like my soul was bared and people could see my innermost desires and intentions.

They can't of course, just two shiny things.

 

[Fitzo]

hey Fitzo. always happy to read your wisdom. not doing so well at the moment. =o( hope you are.

Hey Wadorama. I'm really sorry to hear you're struggling at the moment. I'm doing ok, thanks for asking.
I hope it's only a temporary setback and things will soon seem brighter.

 

[Fitzo]

Ironically, that was always one of the problems for me.

It felt like my soul was bared and people could see my innermost desires and intentions.

They can't of course, just two shiny things.

Well I wonder if it is actually true to a certain extent?
Maybe it's the very reason auties find it difficult.
Also all those tests that they give you about facial expressions only show the eyes, so obviously that is what people use to determine what someone is feeling in that moment.

 

[Full Steam]

Well I wonder if it is actually true to a certain extent?
Maybe it's the very reason auties find it difficult.
Also all those tests that they give you about facial expressions only show the eyes, so obviously that is what people use to determine what someone is feeling in that moment.

Interesting.

Maybe that also ties into the reason we tend to tell the truth. If you think someone can see into your soul, lies don't work.

I took me until well into my teens to shake the feeling that my mum knew everything about me.

 

[wadorama]

Interesting.

Maybe that also ties into the reason we tend to tell the truth. If you think someone can see into your soul, lies don't work.

I took me until well into my teens to shake the feeling that my mum knew everything about me.

this for me. i have always assumed that everyone i meet knows everything about me. makes me default to feeling like they are automatically superior to me without me even knowing anything about them.

 

[Fitzo]

Interesting.

Maybe that also ties into the reason we tend to tell the truth. If you think someone can see into your soul, lies don't work.

I took me until well into my teens to shake the feeling that my mum knew everything about me.

I think it is because we feel uncomfortable doing anything BUT telling the truth. Whereas lying, or at least evading seems to be much easier for NT's.

 

[wadorama]

wow...reading that i just typed about myself. not good. =o(

 

[Full Steam]

wow...reading that i just typed about myself. not good. =o(

I know the feeling!

Knowing the truth means it can be changed though.

I don't feel inferior to people now, and I can lie very successfully when I need to. I still default to the truth, as that's the right thing to do.

 

[wadorama]

I know the feeling!

Knowing the truth means it can be changed though.

I don't feel inferior to people now, and I can lie very successfully when I need to. I still default to the truth, as that's the right thing to do.

agree wholeheartedly. the factual truth is the only foundation. anything not built on it is unreliable.

 

[Fitzo]

Also people like pathological liars or psycho/sociopaths understand how important eye contact is and have learned how to appear to be telling the truth. It's why people would fear someone who can 'look you in the eye and tell a bare-faced lie'.

 

[wadorama]

Also people like pathological liars or psycho/sociopaths understand how important eye contact is and have learned how to appear to be telling the truth. It's why people would fear someone who can 'look you in the eye and tell a bare-faced lie'.

that should devalue the importance of eye contact then, yet it still seems a valued requirement for even casual interaction. starting to feel like i am making more of this than there is (like i tend to do). as my awareness grows i'll admit to getting increasingly frustrated (and envious!) about how people who don't have to wear my social challenges just live naturally and without awareness of them. dammit dammit dammit. i mean good on them for not having this burden, but still here i am. =o(

 

[Full Steam]

Also people like pathological liars or psycho/sociopaths understand how important eye contact is and have learned how to appear to be telling the truth. It's why people would fear someone who can 'look you in the eye and tell a bare-faced lie'.

Yes - i think they are still quite easy to spot though - look for smiles that are too warm, and excessive, practiced smoothness.

 

[Full Steam]

that should devalue the importance of eye contact then, yet it still seems a valued requirement for even casual interaction. starting to feel like i am making more of this than there is (like i tend to do). as my awareness grows i'll admit to getting increasingly frustrated (and envious!) about how people who don't have to wear my social challenges just live naturally and without awareness of them. dammit dammit dammit. i mean good on them for not having this burden, but still here i am. =o(

There is the flock - NTs as a whole.
There are the wolves who have learnt the ways of the flock to prey on them.
There are the lions who think they are sheep - us.

The flock need their rules to maintain cohesion and order.
They need to try to learn to watch for wolves in sheeps clothing.
We need to realise we are not sheep, but to make the sheep feel comfortable we may choose to act like sheep. We should not fear the wolves as they do not understand us, and we should be able to spot that they do not act exactly like sheep. Their spells are not made for us.