Any Agnostics here..?

[Raggamuffin]

Humanity isn't at a point where it can prove or disprove the existence of a God.

Whilst atheists might condone religious types - their beliefs are just as big a leap of faith.

Ed

 

[Barymore]

@Misery

I just want to post a quick reply because it would feel rude not to. I appreciate many of your posts on this site, but I dont feel this is a fruitful discussion taking place here.

I feel I am attempting to give insight into my thought process and reasoning and am genuinely curious about that of others with another world view. However, I dont feel I am getting that, instead I am feeling somewhat attacked and tarred with a broad brush.

I dont appreciate being told I dont give people credit or that I consider them simple for their beliefs, certainly I resent the implication that I am a bully.

We all spend a lifetime forging and developing our personal world views, I would have liked the opportunity to discuss how that of a believer / person of faith comes about in terms that I may understand.

This does not seem to be possible. Fair enough. But dont give me grief for asking a genuine question.

As I am getting a bit frustrated with this conversation I am not going to continue it to avoid getting stuck somewhere I dont want to be.

See you on another thread!

 

[Bert22]

Humanity isn't at a point where it can prove or disprove the existence of a God.

Whilst atheists might condone religious types - their beliefs are just as big a leap of faith.

Ed

I think you've out it as succinctly as I would hope to express it myself. I figure I would probably be classed as agnostic, if only because I agree it's an unsolvable problem. Faith is required to fill the blanks whichever way you look at it. I tend to consider different ideas not commonly held. My attitude can probably be summed by my favourite lyric on the subject:

You want to trust religion, and you know its allegory, but the people who are followers have written their own story.

Although "I have no need of that hypothesis" is one I like..

 

[watersprite]

In my own personal experiences and observations I continuously see that there is possibly some sort of conscience driving force in life.

^
Pretty much sums it up for me.

I cannot stop being interested in this question and how it affects us all.
For example: the simplest creature to animal’s and bird’s and humanity’s (and my) experiences and our emotional and other responses to them.

Another ex.: The universe’s (Nature’s) complexities, the seemingly endless patterns; this all is so intriguing and dazzling and beautiful.

Lately I’ve been reading into a few books about stoicism. Not so much Macus Aurelius. The best so far was a small intro book by John Sellsars.
Good thread.

 

[Bert22]

It's a fascinating topic. As deep into human psychology and philosophy as it gets.

One idea I often consider is the concept of collective unconsciousness. Its hard to separate the way things seem connected from the human instinct to find common ground and ideas.

Or, the answer is 42.

 

[LadyS]

@Misery

I just want to post a quick reply because it would feel rude not to. I appreciate many of your posts on this site, but I dont feel this is a fruitful discussion taking place here.

I feel I am attempting to give insight into my thought process and reasoning and am genuinely curious about that of others with another world view. However, I dont feel I am getting that, instead I am feeling somewhat attacked and tarred with a broad brush.

I dont appreciate being told I dont give people credit or that I consider them simple for their beliefs, certainly I resent the implication that I am a bully.

We all spend a lifetime forging and developing our personal world views, I would have liked the opportunity to discuss how that of a believer / person of faith comes about in terms that I may understand.

This does not seem to be possible. Fair enough. But dont give me grief for asking a genuine question.

As I am getting a bit frustrated with this conversation I am not going to continue it to avoid getting stuck somewhere I dont want to be.

See you on another thread!





And really even if someone does give you an explanation of why/how they believe something... they're only giving part of it. Again, forged over years. You cant TRULY give a full explanation in a couple of posts on the bloody internet. You can TRY, but it wont be complete regardless.

If you want to know the answer to the very sort of question you asked in that quote, it will take far, far more than merely asking it in order to receive that answer.

Apologies if you feel attacked on this thread. I can only speak for myself but I don't think there were any intentions to discredit anyone, or science for matter. I think to clarify one point, my argument is not to completely discredit science just because it doesn't answer all questions. I only seek to keep questioning our absolute certainty in our acquired knowledge. Questioning science does not equate to there being a God (and vice versa). As others have said, it's only just one explanation that tries to justify life. As a Geologist, I actually lean more toward facts and evidence myself. I just don't discard the possibility of any "spiritual" aspect.

And I agree that unfortunately groups of faith including Athiests are all painted with a broad brush. I know religious people who are very tolerant of others views and ones who actively seek to denigrate Athiests. Conversely, I know Athiests that aren't bothered by other religious views as well as ones who are downright nasty to anyone who dares innocently speak about their faith.

As someone raised Hindu, we don't generally advertise our beliefs and practices nor try to convert anyone. So I totally get how annoying it can be when people try to convince you you're wrong.

 

[Bert22]

I am not a follower of any religion, but I think in most religions there is wisdom and some of the best of humanity. Some of the most interesting philosophical discussions I've had have been with people who have strong faith.

No-one has all the answers, and every persons viewpoint is worthy of respect and consideration.

 

[John M]

I self identify as agnostic. My family attended a Quaker church when I was a youth. The focus was more on seeking 'the inner Christ' which is left largely undefined as the assumption is this might be different for different people. The religion also believes that the truth is more important than the bible. It's a more permission religion in some ways than other Christian denominations, similar perhaps to Hinduism in that regard.

When I was much younger, my unconscious attempted to explain god to me in a brief dream I had during a micro-sleep. It flashed an image of a hollow golden sphere slowly rotating against a black backdrop. Letters in some alien alphabet were cut out along its surface and a bright light placed in the middle of the globe shined through the letters. A voice says, “this is god.”

My background is in geography so when I see a sphere with a light placed in the middle of it I think 'map projection.' If you're unfamiliar with the term, it relates to the different ways one can take a spherical surface (the earth) and project that onto a two dimensional image (a map). All two dimensional maps are wrong in some way because it's impossible to accurately represent a sphere in two dimensions.

My perception is that the mind represents a kind of 'two dimensional surface' to gods 'sphere'. No matter where I am in relation to god, the light and word of god are projected onto me. However, these projections are distorted in the way a two dimensional map is. I try to work around this by not reading what's projected on my mind because my experience has been that my unconscious is capable of 'reading the map'. The mind may see 'something' that's true but as soon as it starts making assumptions based on a true observation distortion sets in. I let my unconscious do all the heavy spiritual lifting. It more closely resembles that 'sphere' so there's little distortion.

I think a mind that realizes it doesn't know whether god exists is a mind that isn't filled with assumptions that will turn it away from god if there is one. My personal belief is that when the universe speaks to someone that follows a dogmatic religion they'll misinterpret it. When the universe speaks to someone that's an atheist they'll ignore it. When the universe speaks to someone that's agnostic they might listen.