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Any audio production hobbyists?

Wintertime

the ghost of this place
I am curious for several reasons. The immediate one is- I need some help with recording acapellas. I use Audacity these days although I think I have WaveLab somewhere on my hdd. The help I need is that my equipment is beyond horrible. I use a really old Radio Shack mic and a crappy HP laptop. I can't get better equipment. As a result, my pellas sound awful, they are barely worth making. I am starting to get back into singing but listening to these when I know what I actually sound like is so painful and kills my self esteem, Lol. I've managed to reduce a tiny bit of the white noise and the 'underwater' effect, the garble, but I am actually not that knowledgable about everything I can do to clean them up better, other people that I worked with took care of the production side in the past. So I was curious if anyone had any knowledge they could share to help me clean up the white noise and other effects.

And of course, if there are any members who make or record music, feel free to talk about it in this thread.
 
Can't help you on the sound processing...we mostly do video (Camtasia) that doesn't involve music. But for sound capture, we use the Yeti Blue microphone. I've seen it in music videos, too, like when they record a "live" studio video. You can get a pop filter for it, and put a little thought on where it's positioned in your house...whether there's feedback from surrounding walls/floors/etc.

From what I've read, Audacity is one of the best. But admittedly, I haven't searched intensely for the music side of all that. And when I was looking, I didn't have the budget to consider anything expensive.
 
I use Audacity 2.0 as well on occasion, but through high-definition audio on my ASUS motherboard. That's quite a step up from the AC97 audio platform I had on my old computer system. But then I use such things mostly regarding voices and sounds not related to music.

If I were doing really critical studio-style recording, I'd probably want a microphone from RØDE. I know a cheap microphone can add its own noise and runs the risk of compounding unwanted sound on top of whatever your audio source is. This company is known for producing quality microphones to reduce unwanted noise a mike itself may create.

RØDE Microphones - View our products
 
Perhaps you should look into the amplification before it goes into your computer. A lot of onboard soundcards give a +20 dB boost, and that often creates white noise (as well as clipping), which you'd have to fix afterwards. However, equalizing noise out, also takes out wanted frequencies and sounds out.
 
Yay, responses! Thanks :} Nice to know there are others who dabble.

I know of the Blue Yeti, I had actually planned to buy one because they're relatively inexpensive and I've heard good things, but then I ended up running out of money, Lol. Tax return is quickly spent. My dream mic is actually a RØDE K2, I've wanted one for about 7 years but they are so far out of my budget that they're in the stratosphere and I don't even bother dreaming about having one anymore because they are so expensive, Lol.

I am actually quite well versed on a lot of aspects of vocal recording, I have had two drum n bass songs played out in clubs around the world and had many well known producers wanting me to sing for them, even offering to pay for proper studio time, but my life took a turn and I ended up having to focus on it and had to drop music. This was a few years ago. It's the software that I'm having trouble with as it's been so many years that I've forgotten much of what I used to know, and I had a different set up back in the day which made much cleaner pellas. Then my voice coach would do the fine tuning of clean up but I haven't spoken to him in many years. And I no longer speak with any of my producer friends, we've lost touch.

Oni, that sounds extremely helpful. Thank you. That might be something to really help. How would I check that and change it? I'm afraid I'm not the nerd I used to be. Much to my chagrin.

I wonder if anyone else uses DAWs here, I know you do Oni. I have used Reason, Ableton, and various others. I tried Fruity Loops but felt that it was inadequate for my needs, and I didn't like the 'sound' of music made on it, but that's a long story. I know there were at least a couple of other members who made their own music. Hope to see them in this thread eventually. :}
 
Oni, that sounds extremely helpful. Thank you. That might be something to really help. How would I check that and change it? I'm afraid I'm not the nerd I used to be. Much to my chagrin.


Where do you plug your microphone in? Most onboards have 3 ports; speaker out, line in and mic in. Obviously mic in, is the one amplified ;)

Otherwise, you might want to see if you can adjust the volume when it comes in. Most soundcards offer some kind of control to regulate the volume of input.


I wonder if anyone else uses DAWs here, I know you do Oni. I have used Reason, Ableton, and various others. I tried Fruity Loops but felt that it was inadequate for my needs, and I didn't like the 'sound' of music made on it, but that's a long story. I know there were at least a couple of other members who made their own music. Hope to see them in this thread eventually. :}

Perhaps you have been using FL wrong then ;) The thing most people forget with FL is that, underneath it all, it's a DAW much like cubase and such. It just happens that FL looks like it has more bells and whistles. I rarely used the instruments and samples that came with FL itself, but ended up using 3rd party VSTi's, samples and loops for music I made.

That's also why I'm now saving up for Reason instead of FL, lol. FL is pricy, but with all the 3rd party plug-ins I enjoyed using (I am a bit of pirate afterall, arrrr) it becomes a crazy endevour. Though I will say that, much like Reason, FL is more suited if you want to make loops and mostly instrumental tracks. The recording in FL always felt a bit clunky. Speaking of which.. Ableton always felt clunky as a whole, lol. I can't say much about Reason, since the most recent itterations (I believe from 6.0 and up) allow for recording as well; something I sorely missed back in the day with a pirated copy of 3.0.

I think that audacity is or was free back in the day (and might still be) hence that's what a lot of people often use. But I guess, with things being free, it comes at a price (the irony, lol).

What might be important to ask yourself is; what is your workflow most like and what might work best for that. I mean; Audacity and similar things might be fine for recording, though with the lack of support for things like Rex files (which some people use) it's not that ideal.

What might also be worth looking into is Reason Essentials. That's a stripped down version, which does allow for recording and some minor things Reason does, it's just a bit more limited and way, way cheaper than it's big brother (roughly 25% of the price)
 
I only have two ports, headphones and mic. This is a mass market midgrade 4 year old HP laptop. I am limited by my equipment and just trying to do the best I can with what I have while avoiding frustration to the best of my ability, Lol. I wonder if anyone knows offhand where I can find to adjust the input volume as I'm not really in a research frame of mind at the moment, I am struggling with my cognitive functions and they aren't where I'd like them to be. I'm having a very hard time with ADHD right now and focussing on persnickety things.

I meant with FL that whenever some budding producer would share something they made with me, I could tell just by listening that they made it in FL (and I can tell what other tunes are made with quite often if they are DIY). I don't wish to sound elitist or anything, but in my experience it was a DAW with training wheels, made for entry level, although I haven't been acquainted with it for some years, and I would assume it's gotten better with technology and the times. If people find they can make good music with it, that's excellent, but for me, I can hear even the minutest distinctions in quality. I have an exceptionally sensitive ear so it is especially painful to hear my own pellas in the state they are right now.
 
I only have two ports, headphones and mic. This is a mass market midgrade 4 year old HP laptop. I am limited by my equipment and just trying to do the best I can with what I have while avoiding frustration to the best of my ability, Lol. I wonder if anyone knows offhand where I can find to adjust the input volume as I'm not really in a research frame of mind at the moment, I am struggling with my cognitive functions and they aren't where I'd like them to be. I'm having a very hard time with ADHD right now and focussing on persnickety things.

Wouldn't it be on the volume controls on the right corner in windows? Task bar... speaker icon? Double click.

If that's not it, you might want to go to Configuration -> Sound (and it's found there somewhere; and I'm even doing this by guesses how it's called in English... darn dutch windows, lol)

I meant with FL that whenever some budding producer would share something they made with me, I could tell just by listening that they made it in FL (and I can tell what other tunes are made with quite often if they are DIY). I don't wish to sound elitist or anything, but in my experience it was a DAW with training wheels, made for entry level, although I haven't been acquainted with it for some years, and I would assume it's gotten better with technology and the times. If people find they can make good music with it, that's excellent, but for me, I can hear even the minutest distinctions in quality. I have an exceptionally sensitive ear so it is especially painful to hear my own pellas in the state they are right now.

But wasn't it my track of which you couldn't believe it was made in FL? :p

But perhaps you're right... FL does seem a bit of a training wheels kind of DAW. The other day some guy asked me if I knew a good DAW to start, since he found FL too complicated...

my response :rolleyes:
 
I'm so old school... I put together a computer to record digital audio between ten and thirteen years ago and I'm still using it, using Cakewalk Sonar 4 Producer Edition to multitrack and SoundForge to master. I mostly record live instruments, but I'll mix in samples where appropriate. Sorry I don't have any practical advice related to the gear you've got!

Not to be (too much of) a downer, but I've found there's a minimal level of "acceptable" gear with which to record vocals, especially if you've got an ear/mind that can tell the difference. If I were to make one very general recommendation as to how to get good vocal sounds--get a condenser microphone.

With the last batch of recordings I did 8-9 years ago, I used a Marshall MXL2003, which now seem to go for about $80-$100 used (CDN$) where I live (Greater Toronto Area). And this would have to be run through a mixer or a preamp with phantom power. Here's a sample from that batch:
Our Love Was Born by DanielButterfield on SoundCloud - Hear the world’s sounds

Prior to that, I used to use a Shure SM57 dynamic microphone running through a DJ mixer. That was before home recording became popular enough that anyone marketed consumer-grade studio gear! And here's a sample from that batch:
Self Pity's Waltz by DanielButterfield on SoundCloud - Hear the world’s sounds

All the guitars and vocals on the older one were recorded with the SM57, while the guitars and vocals on the newer track were recorded with the condenser. You can probably tell the difference!

Back in the day, I found these two tutorials very helpful:
Studio Buddy: Home and Studio Recording Software for Better Sound
http://www.menet.umn.edu/~kgeisler/EQ/primer.htm
 
Oni yeah, you get it. Hehe you're right, I remember listening to yours and being impressed that you stretched FL to its limits, but then you do make use of vsti's and you are a boundary pusher anyway. : D But it showed and was really good. I would love to see what you could do with Reason. It's very versatile although it does take some effort to finesse to get a smooth sound. I think you'd be great with it.


Daniel, excellent post, which i will revisit. I do have a very acute ear. I also wish to point out that I literally cannot afford to upgrade or change my equipment. I sail the seven seas with Oni on that pirate bed of great justice, Lol. Sorry, chat reference. Hidden message so the feds don't get me. :D
 
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Oni yeah, you get it. Hehe you're right, I remember listening to yours and being impressed that you stretched FL to its limits, but then you do make use of vsti's and you are a boundary pusher anyway. : D But it showed and was really good. I would love to see what you could do with Reason. It's very versatile although it does take some effort to finesse to get a smooth sound. I think you'd be great with it.


I've used Reason before, though I mostly used it for loops and such rather than actual song writing. I always found it a bit iffy to play around with non-standard time signatures and radical tempochanges... but that was back in the day; when 5.0 was the last one around (and the last one that actually was to be found with a crack on the interwebs)

Nowadays with all the rack extensions and 3rd party add-ons it adds even more flexibility though.

I'm waiting for 8.0 to be released later this month before I'm spending all my savings on it.. and be broke oncemore, lol. I'm probably transitioning most, if not all my recording stuff to mainly Reason as a DAW. Though; just wait and see... and I need another program because I wanted to do things that I'm missing in Reason, lol... that's how it always goes, haha.
 
I'm so old school... I put together a computer to record digital audio between ten and thirteen years ago and I'm still using it, using Cakewalk Sonar 4 Producer Edition to multitrack and SoundForge to master. I mostly record live instruments, but I'll mix in samples where appropriate. Sorry I don't have any practical advice related to the gear you've got!

Not to be (too much of) a downer, but I've found there's a minimal level of "acceptable" gear with which to record vocals, especially if you've got an ear/mind that can tell the difference. If I were to make one very general recommendation as to how to get good vocal sounds--get a condenser microphone.

I like that you're old school, that is great. I really nerded out reading your post. : D I do have a couple of condensers around here but I have no preamp. So that's an issue. Living with the limitations of my equipment gets very tiresome some days. I agree with you, too, vocals can be a bit of a pain. I don't even have a pop filter, Lol. Homemade piece of nylon has to suffice.

Thank you for the links and I will enjoy them. I don't really have a whole lot to add or comment on, but I wanted to acknowledge the great information in your post, Daniel.

I look forward to more general talk about recording and DAWs.
 

I've used Reason before, though I mostly used it for loops and such rather than actual song writing. I always found it a bit iffy to play around with non-standard time signatures and radical tempochanges... but that was back in the day; when 5.0 was the last one around (and the last one that actually was to be found with a crack on the interwebs)

Nowadays with all the rack extensions and 3rd party add-ons it adds even more flexibility though.

I'm waiting for 8.0 to be released later this month before I'm spending all my savings on it.. and be broke oncemore, lol. I'm probably transitioning most, if not all my recording stuff to mainly Reason as a DAW. Though; just wait and see... and I need another program because I wanted to do things that I'm missing in Reason, lol... that's how it always goes, haha.

Yeah, I love the rack. It makes it a lot more intuitive for me, to have the visual analogue of a real rack. It's a lot of fun, too, to play with the plugs, Lol. I think I have 6 around here but I'm not certain.
 
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A laptop's on-board sound card is no way to record anything of quality. When you get the means to upgrade, there are USB condenser mics, which I have heard used and they sound just fine. You can find them for less than a hundred bucks.
 
You are absolutely right, Wyv. It's been a significant source of frustration for me, as I have a very unique voice and the things that are unique about it are lost with what I have now. It's hard to describe, it's like, I have a lot of resonance and have a lot of throat based ornamentation. I'd like to share an example, but, heh. I am really stuck though, at least for awhile. My only other recourse is to throw together a Frankenputer from parts I have around here, I've got about 4 boxes in various states of completeness. I just really don't want to deal with that right now.
 
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What kind of EQ and compression capabilities do you have with your recording software, and if so, have you tried them out?

Taking down the boxy middle frequencies can reduce the "cheapness" and mud of a track. Compression can help smooth out inconsistencies in dynamics. I always clean up my sounds in post.

The other thing I could recommend off the top of my head would be to sweeten up your vocals with reverb and delay.
 
Daniel, thank you! That is exactly what will help me- direction. I look at the panel of options and I get kind of lost. I do have the ability in Audacity to adjust compression and do some EQing, I just don't know exactly what to do with them and that's where I get kind of frustrated. I didn't know that I should be looking to clean up the mids. I try to stay away from reverb because I like as authentic a vocal as possible, but I could play with it a little and see if I can find a sweet spot between clarity and overprocessed. I'm excited now, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge.
 
You're welcome! I think I've got a better idea now of your situation. Aspie brain dump to follow...

The EQ Primer is where I learned pretty much everything I know about EQ. Since you don't have reference monitors (I'm assuming), it's good to have multiple options for listening back to your track while fiddling, like speakers vs. headphones, since every playback device has a different frequency response. You want your tracks to sound good no matter where they are played. (Even if you have reference monitors, it's still good to listen on multiple devices!)

It's all the Primer, but to get started with EQ, you can train your ear to hear the different frequencies by taking out bands to hear the difference. For example, if I want to figure out where there's a middle frequency in my piano track that's doing something unpleasant, I'll solo and loop a chunk of it, play it back, add a low-cut EQ (that cuts everything below a certain frequency), and as I'm listening, I'll slowly raise the cut until I no longer hear what was bugging me. So if I get to 600 Hz, and that's where I stop hearing the weird thing I didn't like, I know that that's where that tone is happening. Then I'll go back and apply a peak at 600 Hz (or just below) with a range of 1.3 octaves and set it to -3 dB or -6 dB, or whatever is enough to take down the unpleasantness without compromising the whole sound, and I listen and tweak until I've got it.

As it moves, you can learn to hear what each frequency range sounds like (but try it on multiple speakers/headphones!). The Primer is great because it offers specific direction and shares knowledge that I would never have figured out on my own.

Another handy principle--EQ is generally more about taking out frequencies than adding them. In nature, boosted frequencies don't ever happen, but cut frequencies are very common (like when you put your hands over your ears), and therefore, will sound more "natural".

Low to mid tones tend to build up "mud and cardboard" when you have multiple tracks, and I've found that that's a dead giveaway of an amateur mix. It's one of the reasons I'm not crazy about listening to live bands; typically the bass and mids will dominate the mix with mud because the guitarist and bassist have their amps too loud.

I learned a lesson by reading the CD liner notes of the MC5 album Back in the USA. The producer, Jon Landau, wanted the "hottest" EQ he could get, so he pushed the engineer to keep taking the low end down further and further. The final product turned out to sound unusually thin and tinny. However, it became an influence on the punk sound later that decade! (I found this thread where audiophiles are discussing a reissue of the album that restores the bass. The YouTube video that has the full album sounds like it's this remaster. I'd have to dig up my CD and compare.)

Re: compression... I found this video on YouTube:

(Caveat: I didn't acually watch the whole video; it takes him until 9:00 to start talking about controls, but before that, he says that it's knowledge that makes the difference, and not the gear. There are other tutorials out there, lol.) For vocals, I'll typically start with a 3:1 compression ratio. I like a short attack, like 2 ms, just long enough to not sound clipped, but short enough to not let bursts of amplitude through. The guys on the video can probably explain it better than I could here!

With reverb, I found a basic reverb setting I liked to give my tracks the ambience of a warm room. It adds a nice resonance.
  • Original sound - 100% volume
  • Reverb mix - between 15%-30% volume
  • Set reverb frequency range: low end limit of 80 or 100 HZ to a high end limit of 1.5kHZ.
I find if you don't limit the high-end of the reverb, it gives it a tone I don't like (I don't know a word for it; the Love album Four Sail is an example of it, especially on the drums). The lows-to-mids boost that good sweet, resonant part of a voice.

Delay is more of a special effect, and it sounds like that's not what you're going for. Sometimes I like a short delay for that rockabilly vocal sound!

There's lots of material out there that's being shared. Google is your friend! I can't vouch for the quality of it, but I know the EQ Primer and Studio Buddy are good.
 
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Daniel, you have gone above and beyond the call. Thank you so much. I'm honestly speechless that you typed all that out for me. It is very valuable information. I just wanted to acknowledge that, I may have more specific comments later when I'm not so scattered. Great post.
 

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