Apparently I should apologise…

[MarcusAuralius]

My wife who has yet to accept my diagnosis, and spent a few posts on here last year actively denouncing the professionalism and protocol followed for my diagnosis, and then had the good grace to rent a house and then move out in February for six months “to find her space because she couldn’t cope”… obviously a lifetime of being me changed everything in November ((it did not change a thing) because her perimenopause magnified ADHD was causing her serious loss of executive function and meltdowns - but that’s now my fault apparently and not her hormones or HRT).
So at our first actual conversation since February to discuss things (despite her agreeing to a monthly check-in) - she had the good grace to tell me that I should apologies to people for being autistic.

I mean obviously- because all physically handicapped people should go around apologising for their handicap’s so mentally divergent people should too yeah right ?
As should all left handed people - because it’s apparently offensive.

She said that I should apologise to people when I’m blunt or too detailed or anything I do because I’m ND and it upsets them. Because obviously one of my strengths (#not) is being able to read peoples emotional cues.

So apart from having to scrape my jaw off the floor, and mock her with logic of “but how would I know to apologise?” To which she replied well just assume you have upset them then..

I’m 53, got diagnosed at 52, and I’ve got this far without apologising for being me, at what point should I tell my wife not to bother moving back would probably be the best support she can give me ?

Any tips on the specific language I should use because she told me “don’t hint or make suggestions because I don’t pick up in them I need direct communication so I understand your point” (at which point the irony alarm of quoting the DSM5 diagnostic conditions about herself started to ring the klaxon of doom. ).

I mean, she’s basically abandoned me like I’ve been diagnosed with a contagious long term limiting disease. It’s really crap.

So any top tips to get through this ? (For me - sod her!)

 

[Darkkin]

Apologizing for one's neurotype is idiotic and demeaning. That is akin to apologizing for having cancer, heart disease, or cerebral palsy. It is the operating system you're born with. It isn't a disease to be cured.

Her attitude is way off base and prejudical to the ND community, of which as an ADHDer, she is also a part of. Such mindsets are toxic and are a hallmark of willful ignorance.

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

It's always good to apologize after an argument, or if someone says that you've hurt them. Even if you feel you are in the right, it is always best to apologize, forgive, and make peace.

 

[MarcusAuralius]

It's always good to apologize after an argument, or if someone says that you've hurt them. Even if you feel you are in the right, it is always best to apologize, forgive, and make peace.

The condition you put in that is if you’ve had an argument and well, obviously!
Have a re-read of the original post.
If I don’t know from their response from a normal conversation they are offended by my bluntness- how would I know ?

 

[MarcusAuralius]

Apologizing for one's neurotype is idiotic and demeaning. That is akin to apologizing for having cancer, heart disease, or cerebral palsy. It is the operating system you're born with. It isn't a disease to be cured.

Her attitude is way off base and prejudical to the ND community, of which as an ADHDer, she is also a part of. Such mindsets are toxic and are a hallmark of willful ignorance.

Thanks Darkkin,
She’s in so much denial about her own undiagnosed condition and diagnosis, which manifests itself at her horror of me from the outset considering getting a diagnosis and then referral and waiting 5years and getting the full process - it’s laughable if it wasn’t so tragic.
She’s willfully ignorantly blocking it. Ever since she lost her photographic memory when she started peri menopause which she used to rely on for reading books and spouting knowledge it’s become apparent that she just used to skim and memorise them and not actually read and understand them. So she says she’s read all the books but what she really means is she’s looked at the pages. She hasn’t actually read or learned anything about Aspergers/autism and still refuses to even get near the discussion with me.
It’s absolutely awful and feels like emotional abuse. On the upside - if I end up in hospital old and dying one day, I know not to expect her to come along and show any empathy or care… so I won’t have my hopes dashed!

Even the chap who ran the understanding autism course she gallantly attended with me (I mistakenly thought to support) - assumed and asked me afterwards when her assessment was going to happen !

I think she's scared of herself and what it means to her. I get that, it’s been terrifying, but it’s still better than living in a state of utter unknowing and confusion and stress everyday.

 

[Hypnalis]

She's looking for weaknesses to exploit.
FWIW this isn't much of an attack, so either you're a difficult target, or she's not good at this.

You'll have to decide for yourself if/how much you want to return to your past relationship, or create a new one under one roof.

If/when you've set an objective, it's still not a real discussion until there's an agreed objective(s). And clearly an implied "change your fundamental nature to what I want" isn't that

Assuming you're looking to discourage her "amateur psychologist" behavior, I can suggest a generic counter-measure: minimal engagement.
The rule is "don't JADE" (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) - at least unless you really like to play the game - manipulating the process can be used to get an edge.

No/minimum response is normal (in many cases, probably including this one, it's effective to reply either nothing at all, or one of "no" or "ok" followed by silence).

BTW it's likely to annoy her, but if you choose a "minimal response" plan, stay with it.
An opportunity will come eventually for you to make your own pitch (assuming you want to), but not as part of an answer to a demand without a defined context.

Also since you're still fairly new to this: what we all have in common is an aspect of our fundamental nature (literally of how our minds work). There's no "treatment" or "cure". It can't be conditioned out of us.

We can, for example, get a lot better at social skills, but we can't change who we are.

 

[MarcusAuralius]

She's looking for weaknesses to exploit.
FWIW this isn't much of an attack, so either you're a difficult target, or she's not good at this.

You'll have to decide for yourself if/how much you want to return to your past relationship, or create a new one under one roof.

If/when you've set an objective, it's still not a real discussion until there's an agreed objective(s). And clearly an implied "change your fundamental nature to what I want" isn't that

Assuming you're looking to discourage her "amateur psychologist" behavior, I can suggest a generic counter-measure: minimal engagement.
The rule is "don't JADE" (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) - at least unless you really like to play the game - manipulating the process can be used to get an edge.

No/minimum response is normal (in many cases, probably including this one, it's effective to reply either nothing at all, or one of "no" or "ok" followed by silence).

BTW it's likely to annoy her, but if you choose a "minimal response" plan, stay with it.
An opportunity will come eventually for you to make your own pitch (assuming you want to), but not as part of an answer to a demand without a defined context.

Also since you're still fairly new to this: what we all have in common is an aspect of our fundamental nature (literally of how our minds work). There's no "treatment" or "cure". It can't be conditioned out of us.

We can, for example, get a lot better at social skills, but we can't change who we are.

I hear what you say Hypnalis, minimal response is difficult when it’s our first discussions in over five months. The point is to talk because - well she has blanked me out of the relationship for 7 years and driven a wedge. Her (undiagnosed) autistic trait is to overthink, answer the discussion in her own head, decide I’ll ask for too much detail, overwhelm herself and shut down.
It’s utter crap, and yes I’ve pretty much decided I don’t want her back if she won’t accept my diagnosis.

She said “I do accept you have a diagnosis you’re happy with”, so that non- acceptance speech probably taken from Matt Hancock can go jump in the river…

I think she’s in for a surprise when the doors closed…. And yes I’m absolutely on the track about there being no treatment- it is all about acceptance and hopefully better social normative masking that I can manage without overwhelming myself. And that is extremely helpful for a stress reduced life.

 

[Darkkin]

Autism doesn't need to be explained away or justified and unless circumstances specifically merit clarification for things like a work or school accommodation, it really isn't anyone's business except yours.

Diagnosis is complicated and reaction are as varied as those diagnosed, but for a lot of people it brings much needed perspective, relief, and much needed access to a community that understands (e.g. this forum).

Autism isn't you, it is just a trait you were born with. If you have accepted that diagnosis, you have taken a huge step. If others can't/won't accept it that is their problem.

 

[Aspychata]

Sorry you two couldn't get to a acceptance of each other. At some point, you two must have had feelings for each other. Sometimes we can't make exceptions and love the person for who they are. Then you have to cut your losses and run.

 

[Crossbreed]

(This does not address your bigger questions, but it is what jumps out at me.)

...she had the good grace to tell me that I should apologies to people for being autistic.

1. If you put your foot in your mouth (and you recognize having done so), you should apologize (just like anyone else). Unfortunately, that is too common for us. Apologizing for a specific faux pax is not the same as apologizing for just being austistic.
2. Since we already know that to be our tendency, we can factor it in as a known weakness and not be too hard on ourselves as we try to improve our NT communication skills.
3. Be sure to learn what you can from such mistakes so you can up your game.

The Roses Of Success, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (1968)​

 

[MarcusAuralius]

Yes to all of that, however she was telling me to apologise even when I don’t think or know or have any clue I have put my foot in it.
Literally walk around like a British comedy sketch saying “sorry” all the time…

 

[MarcusAuralius]

Autism doesn't need to be explained away or justified and unless circumstances specifically merit clarification for things like a work or school accommodation, it really isn't anyone's business except yours.

Diagnosis is complicated and reaction are as varied as those diagnosed, but for a lot of people it brings much needed perspective, relief, and much needed access to a community that understands (e.g. this forum).

Autism isn't you, it is just a trait you were born with. If you have accepted that diagnosis, you have taken a huge step. If others can't/won't accept it that is their problem.

Absolutely- and further to that, non acceptance is one thing, but rejection and disgust and telling me to apologise - that stuff can get out of my life.

 

[Hypnalis]

@MarcusAuralius

My "don't JADE" suggestion is generic, so you can use it or not according to circumstances.

Since you want a discussion, I have another suggestion (shadowed in the post above):
1) Set and codify your personal objectives
2) Prepare a pitch to establish them as the overall frame for ongoing discussions

It sounds like you're almost ready with the decision side of (1), which is good, because it contains the hardest part of this.
"Codify" is short for turning the decision from something you understand into words that you can use with your wife.

(2) is to make sure you have the words ready for the entire discussion.
For example your delivery will probably need to be robust in the face of interruptions. Interruptions can disrupt the flow of an idea-driven delivery, but if you already have the words lined up, you're much less likely to lose track of the essential content.
There's also the risk of accidently slipping into something that can be perceived as a threat of a negative outcome (which almost guarantees pushback, so it's very likely to disrupt the discussion).
Personally I avoid that by attempting never to say anything that might be misunderstood as a threat.

You may have a system for this already, but for me it was tricky, because it requires a "non-Aspie skill" - a theory of the other person's reaction to certain kinds of information. It took me quite a long time to get it right, but FWIW the process turned out to be useful for other things too so it was well worth the effort.

 

[Aspychata]

You are an adult. At the end of the day, you decide what you wish to do. Maybe this is the blame game for her being upset about the breakup. She is blaming you instead of just figuring out what your next steps are. I have been guilty of this. I can't change either of our situations, however l am upset that my situation prevents me from being with him. And so l find my anger about us not having normal, then me on a escalated blame game, which results in absolutely nothing, when l am just in pain that we can't have normal on any level. It's extremely frustrating. So you may just need to step back and not engage with her rant about apologizing. Thank her for input and just back away.

 

[MarcusAuralius]

You are an adult. At the end of the day, you decide what you wish to do. Maybe this is the blame game for her being upset about the breakup. She is blaming you instead of just figuring out what your next steps are. I have been guilty of this. I can't change either of our situations, however l am upset that my situation prevents me from being with him. And so l find my anger about us not having normal, then me on a escalated blame game, which results in absolutely nothing, when l am just in pain that we can't have normal on any level. It's extremely frustrating. So you may just need to step back and not engage with her rant about apologizing. Thank her for input and just back away.

Interesting perspective, it is like watching someone struggling to come to terms with a partners cancer diagnosis- constantly asking “but why!”, and then not coping and running away “to try to solve it”, and of course there is no solution because it’s not their diagnosis- they just need to accept it and go “ok where do we go from here now we know something different from yesterday.”
But as we know a trait of Aspergers is difficulty handling new information from external sources, and a need to validate that with more data and facts to understand things before accepting them. Which is precisely what she keeps saying she wants to do (verbatim), whilst simultaneously telling me she’s definitely not Aspergers herself.
You couldn’t make this up if you were writing a script for a sitcom.

 

[Vindiesel]

Bad behavior from anyone should be tolerated no matter their brain wiring or disorder. Then their goes that social aspect were people expect you to be a certain way (masking) and doesnt necessarily coincide with societal norms but that by no means requires an apology.

I have at times argued with my wife over particular situation that she feels I should cave and just "do it because it is what is right" then to differentiate between "what is right" and shifting the essence of who I am to aim for conformity I'm not willing to budge. Or she has said that I use being on the spectrum as a crutch to not do what others want me to do or be a certain way.

With your partner either she can bridge the gap and try to understand and try to make amends or sometimes people grow apart its that simple. If people want to be together they will make sacrifices on some accord and can reason to keep the relationship mutual no matter what hardships they cross.

 

[Aspychata]

Can you just say l understand that you are frustrated with everything. I aknowledge that, but how can you and l move forward, what can we agree on? Running away and denying the current situation isn't happening keeps everything in a stagnant loop and becomes painful for both of you. The loop turns into the elephant in the room. May l suggest going to a neutral place, away from home where you could have this discussion and find answers and some closure. She never may get to that point but at least you tried.

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

Try and soften your responses. Sweeten them with sugar and season them with salt. A little tact goes a long way.

I know you just see it as her, and probably a lot of this altercation is her. But it's also you. It takes two to have a relationship.

Try and be kind. That's all I can say.

 

[MarcusAuralius]

Can you just say l understand that you are frustrated with everything. I aknowledge that, but how can you and l move forward, what can we agree on? Running away and denying the current situation isn't happening keeps everything in a stagnant loop and becomes painful for both of you. The loop turns into the elephant in the room. May l suggest going to a neutral place, away from home where you could have this discussion and find answers and some closure. She never may get to that point but at least you tried.

You’re absolutely right. And That was literally the conversation after which she told me to apologise for being Aspergers. I think we’re at the point where at least I tried and can just get on with my life more easily without her, and knowing I did my best to share the situation and ask for her support.
One day she might get there, and she can come and tell me if she wants to, but that’s her journey now.

 

[Aspychata]

Gotta it, your realization. I give credit for you trying. Sometimes people can't accept truths, our truths, their truths, our together truths. It is what it is.