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Are most guests Neurotypicals

rolo

Well-Known Member
Having been here a few days, I have found that it is easy to be sucked into the US and Them argument-I have been rejected, misunderstood ,maligned, bullied and disregarded by many Neurotypicals over the course of my life. However, I do not wish to do the same to them-I am no saint and so far I have vented a little of my anger and frustration about my interactions with them as have many on here have. My worry /concern is that those many guests who choose not to register but still wish to access this site for information etc and who may be Neurotypical may think this is some sort of anti-neurotypical site/ forum. I do not believe it is but wanted to send this idea out and see what others think. I have a wonderful friend who I am going to see tomorrow who is extremely supportive of me and has seen me go through hell and back getting my diagnosis and has never judged me. We have maintained a four year friendship-a record for me and without her I would have been totally alone-She is neurotypical and I am both lucky and thankful she is in my life.I do not like the human species much and would go as far to say I am misanthropic in the main. Anyway this should be an interesting post.
 
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As the old saying goes... You hit the nail right on the head! Just one of the many reasons why I may soon leave this site.

What follows herein is my own observation!

99.9% percent of us owe our very existence to NT's and "bashing" them is something I saw on other sites which is why I joined this forum in the first place, my parents were/ are NT's, so were/ are my siblings, so were/ are 99.9% of the individuals I interact with in regular everyday life, so they are different but "bashing them is like calling out racial slurs to a minority or homophobic sentiments to a lesbian... draw your own simile here.

In recent weeks there has been a rise in NT put downs, expressed anger, elitism, pretty much just disguised bigotry in general. I am not saying the mods are not doing their jobs, I am not saying the webmaster has dropped the ball and I am not saying the current influx of members has changed things negatively, I am saying that the overall tone of the place is changing and I am not the only one to notice it, nor am I the only one who doesn?t know what it is that is causing it or how to stem the tide. Finally, I am not the only one to be distressed and/ or confused by it either.

I generally do not understand things because I am aspergical, I do understand however that it sucks that I now feel that way when I come here to be among those with what I thought was similar difficulty.

I hope... things calm down, go back to regularly scheduled business and that some egos adapt to being one among many. We are all in the same boat and should be able to benefit from one another?s diverse range of experiences, it isn?t a competition or a rally, but anyway, I feel I have said too much and will now await the knock on the head from the banning wand for adding to the cause of the dissension in the ranks ; ]





PS; Rolo, the thread will possibly be moved to more appropriate ground for it or locked, if deemed inappropriate ; ]
 
Hi Rolo! Found your thread!

Many guests are NT. Many are also people who think they may be Aspies & want to check how we communicate to see if they recognize themselves in us, others may be Aspies anxious about joining something new since they may have had spotty experiences with so-called Aspie forums in the past. Hard to say! I don't think that the Aspies/NT thing has to always be adversarial either. We can learn from & respect each other but there's no denying that we are very different. Difference, however, doesn't have to be a bad thing.

the history of Aspies in the NT world is one of condescension, persecution, fear, isolation, institutionalization & discrimination. No other group on the planet is expected to forget, deny & ignore its history or the cumulative impact their history has had on them. There's no historical evidence of any movement wherein Aspies have organized themselves with the intention of persecuting NTs- & most of us are smart enough to come up with many ways of accomplishing this. We just aren't a species with harmful intentions towards NT humans. In light of this history (which continues today throughout most of the world) it isn't unreasonable for a sensible, logical Aspie to take a look at the past, look at his/her own experiences & be a little leery of the NT world.

Our people & our culture (YES, Aspies DO have cultural similarities!) has been criticized, pathologized & picked apart by well-meaning (& not so well meaning) NT experts. Efforts continue to dismantle our culture (our way of thinking & being in the world) & 'cure' us of our suffering. THen, too, are those who misguidedly think that if they 'include' us, we'll magically become 'normal' like them. Unlikely! This is like thinking that a Chinese person who hangs around with African friends will turn black. Highly unlikely!

As for being anti-NT, I agree. there are some very nice ones. there are nice pit bulls too: I've met some very kind gentle playful loving pit bulls-however, I would be careful NOT to make that assumption about all members of that breed based on their track record. If it is perfectly acceptable for NT experts to assess, analyze, describe, categorize & evaluate Aspie behaviours & culture, why is it somehow controversial for ASPIE experts (which WE are) to apply the same allegedly objective observational techniques to their behaviours & cultures. Aspies & NTs supposedly both value fair play, a balanced discourse & a level playing field: I'm just driving the steam-roller that's levelling said field.
 
Oh, I forgot to mention that these are the rules I read on day one which I took seriously, and figured everyone else would as well, perhaps it is my upbringing at play here and not actually anything to do with Aspergers that I try to keep the rules in mind at all times, that is of course, not to say that others don?t, of course, again, personal view here ; ]

I find it kind of interesting that I wallowed in misery the larger portion of my life until an NT said a few magical words and gave me back my life, he said, and his words have been echoed a few times since by some of his ilk, he said that I definitely had Aspergers! For me to turn around and bash NT's would be rather hypocritical I think ; ]

I think the main trouble I am having personally is that this is a massive entity that by it's very nature is constantly changing and I myself affect some of that change, but I don?t deal well with change and that is a bit of a catch 22 situation unique to the aspergical mind I think...
 
Thanks Gomendosi and Soup-like anyone we can possess many opinions that may seem to contradict themselves but life is never straight forward- I put this out because I saw a pattern emerging-i notice patterns not necessarily content as due to years on meds I am very slow at processing what I have read and then promptly forget most of it. valid points are being made and I feel its good to reassess oneself once in a while- I get passionate as do many and my mind goes off on one and before I know it i've typed and sent something i did not intend.I actually agree with both sentiments and am certainly not trying to be politically correct-I admire one common thread in aspergers ; that is the ability to go it alone and not follow the herd. Gomendosi I hope you do not leave this site-Soup I definitely enjoy what you have to say and the way in which you deliver your ideas thoughts etc. I may or may not agree with everything but that's what helps me work out exactly who I am. On occasion its just a good idea to look back once in a while. I do also believe that we have been marginalised and condescended for too long and its time to stand out from the crowd in a positive way .I am no hypocrite and the first to put my hand up when i get it wrong- as said previously I am a complete novice when it comes to this form of discourse. lastly Why would this be an innapropriate thread?- surely it's an observation not a slur!
 
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Sorry Rolo, it (the thread itself) should be fine, but it may well be moved I would say, bearing in mind I am not a mod of course.

Ummm, I guess I have a bit of a complex about stepping out of line, it might well be a Pavlovian dog type situation, I don?t know, but when I came here I was much like yourself in that this was the first foray for me, I have grown as a result of the site and the people that were here when I came and that includes a few newcomers over that time as well, but now I feel it melding into a facsimile of other sites I rejected and the fact that I say that has me worried I might appear ungrateful or anything other than happy with the place.

That's one of the reasons why I always try to explain myself as well as I am able, but sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade, I mean, I have no wish to offend anyone but I have to call it as I see it if I am asked to. In saying that, while I don?t necessarily have a great love for the non Aspergical or a preference for Aspies specifically, I do love it here, and I would hate to be banned from the place, but I will always (eventually) try to draw attention to things I consider as being detrimental or out of character.

Others make for some good points, as I feel do I, which is to be considered healthy and balanced, but that balance always needs to be redressed if it shifts to favour. I think we all can see that something?s not straight, now we just have to work out what and set about fixing it.

Mmmm, I fear I have lost the train of thought so perhaps I will adjourn to my rest and dream of what intriguing replies await my waking ; ]
 
Well said Gomendosi-we Aspies are often pulled up for calling a spade a spade as we so often upset the proverbial apple cart. I say go ahead but with a balanced argument and well thought rhetoric as you have, rightly in my opinion, stated.
 
I enjoy a robust debate with a variety of opinions any day: esp when those opinions are well stated & come from a sincere place as they do on this forum. I left another forum (called something like incorrect ball of rock in space ;-) ) because someone who disagreed with something I said about racial equality offended his 'pro-Aryan' sensibilities. I was more than prepared to listen respectfully to his views, but he wasn't ready to reciprocate. At one point, the threatened to find out where I lived & harm me (!) My dingbatometer went off & I left that site never to return.

As for obeying rules, as a Canadian, I'm a lot like that too: overall, Aspies & NT Canadians are law-abiding as a group (with an assortment of crooks & what-not like one finds in every nation). Like the rest of you, I tend to prefer slight modifications I see coming to sudden abrupt major changes. As for breaking forum rules, I don't see where anyone so far has done that. We may have at times skirted the boundaries, but if nobody ever did this, we'd be utterly at the mercy of those who are posed to make rules the rest of us are bound to obey.

Many of us Aspies, I find, fall into 2 broad categories with some middle ground people. We tend to be gullible OR sometimes suspicious (some might say a little paranoid). I lean towards the latter. This, combined with being very detail oriented lends me my unique way of seeing things. I'm sure each person here too sees things uniquely partially as a function of their experiences, their detail-orientedness & how trusting they are. None of these positions are either right or wrong since we've all had different experiences!

Gomendosi above mentions the critical help & support he's received from Nts in his life. I've met some amazing ones too: I once had a professor who had devoted the bulk of his life to helping downtrodden tribal people in Ethiopia during a famine AND a civil war! He had bullet holes stitched shut all over his torso from where he was injured multiple times trying to save the lives of strangers. He was a Belgian.

The problem for me is not that we get identified as Aspies, but that this identity becomes excessively pathologized by the overwhelming majority of those in the NT world. The same thing was done to other groups who were tagged as different be it for race (Blacks particularly in America, Jews & people with so-called disabilities in Nazi Germany, LGBTQ all over the world etc.) A situation in which any one group can call itself a 'majority', proceed to label 'others' as minorities & then play a determining role in their status, rights, access to society, enfranchisement & overall fate is by its very nature unjust & unequal.

What I strive to achieve in my interactions with the NT society is to raise their awareness of this form of inequality & place it incumbent upon ALL of us to work towards a more level playing field. People who use wheelchairs accomplished miracles in Europe especially regarding getting laws changed regarding the accessibility of buildings, sidewalks, restaurants, workplaces, metro stations & shops. When NTs designed & built these structures, they weren't intentionally trying to harm people in wheelchairs, they just were thinking from a majority normative perspective. Unless these issues get raised, the world will remain a difficult to navigate place for Aspies as well. Speaking out & pointing out flaws in a structure is not equivalent to 'bashing' or bigotry. My purpose isn't to harm anyone or insult anyone: just to turn what's considered normative on its head & force the mass cultural discourse to examine, critique & improve itself through looking through Aspie eyes.
 
I absolutely hate ignorance amongst the masses-I find that many Aspies fight the corner of the underdog and wish to support those who have been wronged. I am of that persuasion but at present I am in the process of learning how to channel that energy in a more constructive manner-these threads are helping me achieve that personal goal. if we really want change we must speak out. not everyone wishes too, many have enough to deal with just getting through the day. I am both unfortunate and fortunate not to have my own kids to worry about so I could find the time and energy to be an advocate of the Asperger community. my biggest problem is I hate politicians with a passion-they lie for a living-not something I do well. I have also championed those with physical disabilities especially those in wheelchairs.
 
When I was younger, just getting through the day & life in general was enough for me too. there was no energy left for speaking out about anything except needing rest, solitude & silence! My kids are both young adults now. One has his own place, 1 is still at home but she's out at work/school much of the time. My husband works maniacal hours (and loves it!) & I'm older & (hopefully!) wiser. Travel, education, experience + the luxury of time to reflect has helped me put my growing 'awareness' to good usage.

It's wonderful that these threads are helping you achieve your goals! You're an articulate writer & have interesting ideas. I, for one, hope you continue contributing!
 
Most guests here may be NTs.

We members may tend to forget, though, that we are diagnosed by NTs, because of the very same problems we are diagnosed (or dealt) with - deficits in non-verbal communications and socialisation. This is why we have NTs, because this is the way they work, and we just have to follow them. We seldom ask ourselves why we are so upset with our diagnosis.

However, it seems that in this forum, everyone is seen and treated equally. No group is superior over another.

Maybe we should look at ourselves, all of us, what have we really done in the NT-Aspie debate?

Have we really helped Aspies to find what they can do in the NT world?

Have we made Aspies realised they (actually, we) are just one of many, and Aspies are just one part of the whole world?

This is not related to cure or attitudes with NTs. This is related with the attitude to do well.

Do we realise we cannot take any part, even the negative parts of us, away from us so much talents to harness, that it's good to contribute to fellow Aspies and eventually, the world, from our core authentic selves?

Do we realise that while we are living in an unique world, where we are entitled to our different opinions?

This is why, we do our best to work with NTs and Aspies alike. We are all in one world, with I think AC gives this big support structure for all ASDs and helpful people alike, to build a happier, more beautiful world for us to live in.
 
I tend to believe that most NT guests here have more than a passing interest in autism. They either have friends or relatives on the spectrum or they are in the mental health field and work with autistics. It would seem strange to me indeed if a NT just happened onto this website and became interested in reading about us. If so, I would expect they would become bored and likely not stay very long. I don't hate NTs. Most people in the world are NTs and most people in my experience are good people. I have always thought about 10% of people are jerks whether they are NTs or some other genus I know not.

However, I do not like the pain and suffering living in NT culture has caused me and others like me. This forum is ours to discuss how NT culture affects us. There would be no need for forums of this kind if we were happy as clams to live in their world.
 
This is why we try to support each other.

I think this forum does give us the support to cheer for each other, and AC can be a good virtual hangout for all of us here.
 
If it is perfectly acceptable for NT experts to assess, analyze, describe, categorize & evaluate Aspie behaviours & culture, why is it somehow controversial for ASPIE experts (which WE are) to apply the same allegedly objective observational techniques to their behaviours & cultures.

Yes, that is an especially good observation.
 
Soup, Sorry to hear about that revolting experience on that other site. I see what you mean about Aspies being both gullible and suspicious. Unfortunately for me, I'm always seem to be the one that's least appropriate for the current situation.

And I totally agree with you about minorities. I also think it's idiotic that people are mistreated for having orange hair - what difference does it make?
 
" There would be no need for forums of this kind if we were happy as clams to live in their world." - Loomis

That hits the nail on the head! What I'm trying to point out through critiquing NT society & culture (since I know many NTs hang out here too) is that THEy TOO are stressed out & falling apart due to the illogical non-user friendly culture they've created! NEITHER of us human types are doing well under the noisy, chaotic, dangerous, high risk hypocritical, every man for himself, madcap profiteering, overly competitive culture. NONE of those anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, sleeping pills, wake-up pills, high blood pressure meds etc. were designed with Aspies in mind: they were compounded as a consequence of deeply disturbed NTs suffering under the unrelenting pressure of a stressful & indifferent culture with which they couldn't cope either! When WE can't cope, they can point to Asperger's & say we have limited social/coping skills. BOLLOCKS!

On this forum alone, many of us made it alive to our mid 40s only to learn that we are Aspies. We haven't truly done any worse than the average NT. Many of them are divorced, bankrupt, unemployed & in foreclosure. Just drive through some neighbourhoods in America & see all the foreclosure signs: are we to believe that all those former home owners were Aspies? I doubt it. The mainstream culture is hostile to both NTs & Aspies.

The thing is that Aspies aren't motivated to hide their distress behind a series of trembling social masks of 'okayness'. Our culture doesn't do hypocrisy. We're very much a 'what you see is what you get' culture. That is a good trait that can benefit NTs too. WE play an important role as human barometers for when things are going wrong. WE know immediately when a place is too noisy, too chaotic, doesn't allow for basic human comfort etc. WE know immediately when fabrics are too itchy & irritating. ALL of us need to work together to re-make society so it is a healthy, sane, safe place for everyone. So long as, the moment WE register unease it gets attributed to Asperger's & dismissed as a sign of our maladjustment & 'faulty' wiring, we won't get anywhere. I like a level playing field, so do NTs. WE have a duty to use our objectivity to the benefit of NTs too & show them the pathological aspects of their culture & conduct.
 
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Thankyou, Soup. Yours is certainly a very empowering and truthful view of the two psychological types. I've always thought that aspies were just different, not challenged or inferior. It is redundant to call us challenged because, as you point out, every human being is challenged either by their own shortcomings or those of the world around them. That's why I ednorse the suggestion of saying "differently-abled" instead of "disabled", because all these "disorders" really change is the distribution of strengths and weaknesses. I believe many deaf people can actually, in a way, sense sound waves in their fingertips, and there are a few blind people who are able to sense the layout of their surroundings via the behaviour of sound waves rather than light.
 
"...all these "disorders" really change is the distribution of strengths and weaknesses." - ChristianT

Very well said! I like the emphasis you place on the change in distribution of strengths. Why should humans have all their strengths distributed in the same manner? From an evolutionary standpoint, it would be disastrous! We'd be extinct in a generation.
 
"...all these "disorders" really change is the distribution of strengths and weaknesses." - ChristianT

Very well said! I like the emphasis you place on the change in distribution of strengths. Why should humans have all their strengths distributed in the same manner? From an evolutionary standpoint, it would be disastrous! We'd be extinct in a generation.

Indeed, just one disease, predator or natural disaster could kill us all.
 

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