ASD issues and acting

[danjustlovescoffee]

How can we be good at acting if ASD makes us bad at body language and prosody? Or is that just a stereotype?
But sometimes I wonder if acting mihht be easier for many of us as we think a lot about body language and prosody. And then many of the actors are very personal on stage and we can be good at that, I guess.
Actors dont really speak like normal people anyway (except for some modern actors, I think).
Some say that piano might be easier for me than using my voice as piano is more intellectual than using the voice (I guess pianist study theory but singer and speakers often don't).


I've heard that people with ASD is better off not sharing an intense interest with someone else. I guess they mean that when you do that you are asked to do things never want to do in order to be a part of a group. Can you "be yourself" in a group? Or perhaps "being yourself" when you're alone is also difficult.
On the other hand, people say so much about autism and some even contradict each other. If you like acting then never share it with other people?

 

[Neonatal RRT]

How can we be good at acting if ASD makes us bad at body language and prosody? Or is that just a stereotype?
But sometimes I wonder if acting mihht be easier for many of us as we think a lot about body language and prosody. And then many of the actors are very personal on stage and we can be good at that, I guess.
Actors dont really speak like normal people anyway (except for some modern actors, I think).
Some say that piano might be easier for me than using my voice as piano is more intellectual than using the voice (I guess pianist study theory but singer and speakers often don't).


I've heard that people with ASD is better off not sharing an intense interest with someone else. I guess they mean that when you do that you are asked to do things never want to do in order to be a part of a group. Can you "be yourself" in a group? Or perhaps "being yourself" when you're alone is also difficult.
On the other hand, people say so much about autism and some even contradict each other. If you like acting then never share it with other people?

I think we have to be aware that some people are good at masking their autism,...statistically speaking, females better than males.

It is also true that there are actors and singers that are autistic. Some autistics are known for the ability to sing pitch-perfect,...others,...work as sound engineers, working for sound studios. Some entertainers do have notably odd social behaviors that make the news,...some of whom are autistic.

Even though there are some common traits and even neurobiology that makes a person autistic, we have to understand that there is enough neurodiversity within the autistic community that we have to be careful with generalizations and stereotypes.

The issues with sharing a special interest,...is that stereotypically,...autistics take deep dives into the topic and love to elaborate upon it. Unfortunately, it is also common for these special interests to be rather unusual and intense,...and to the average person,...it appears to be more of an odd obsession, especially when the autistic is trying to steer the conversation around to ultimately bring up their special interest,...again. I don't know how many times I will start to share,...and even as an autistic, I can see the other person's eyes glaze over, the body language telling me that they want to leave, and ultimately, they will cut off my conversation and leave abruptly. Do that enough times,...I have become quite self-aware of this,...I don't bother anymore. I have found it rare that neurotypicals talk about topics and objects, science and engineering, etc....the vast majority of the time they want to talk about social topics, people, etc. It seems in my case, I am functioning on a different wavelength than my neurotypical peers, and I have nothing to add to the conversation,...and vice versa.

So can I be myself in a group? Yes and no. I generally cannot interact within a group setting,...I don't know how to jump in and out of the conversation,...I just sit it out and listen. I can speak one-on-one, face to face,...but also have difficulties on the phone. If being naturally quiet and seemingly introverted within the group is being myself, then I guess I am being myself.

 

[danjustlovescoffee]

I found this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sp...ne-phrase-may-differ-autism-meaning-clear/amp

 

[danjustlovescoffee]

I think we have to be aware that some people are good at masking their autism,...statistically speaking, females better than males.

It is also true that there are actors and singers that are autistic. Some autistics are known for the ability to sing pitch-perfect,...others,...work as sound engineers, working for sound studios. Some entertainers do have notably odd social behaviors that make the news,...some of whom are autistic.

Even though there are some common traits and even neurobiology that makes a person autistic, we have to understand that there is enough neurodiversity within the autistic community that we have to be careful with generalizations and stereotypes.

The issues with sharing a special interest,...is that stereotypically,...autistics take deep dives into the topic and love to elaborate upon it. Unfortunately, it is also common for these special interests to be rather unusual and intense,...and to the average person,...it appears to be more of an odd obsession, especially when the autistic is trying to steer the conversation around to ultimately bring up their special interest,...again. I don't know how many times I will start to share,...and even as an autistic, I can see the other person's eyes glaze over, the body language telling me that they want to leave, and ultimately, they will cut off my conversation and leave abruptly. Do that enough times,...I have become quite self-aware of this,...I don't bother anymore. I have found it rare that neurotypicals talk about topics and objects, science and engineering, etc....the vast majority of the time they want to talk about social topics, people, etc. It seems in my case, I am functioning on a different wavelength than my neurotypical peers, and I have nothing to add to the conversation,...and vice versa.

So can I be myself in a group? Yes and no. I generally cannot interact within a group setting,...I don't know how to jump in and out of the conversation,...I just sit it out and listen. I can speak one-on-one, face to face,...but also have difficulties on the phone. If being naturally quiet and seemingly introverted within the group is being myself, then I guess I am being myself.

Sharing my interest can be difficult for me sometimes but that is because many people who want to talk about eg movies have no specific interest in dramaturgy and acting.
People are strange. But we can still find something to talk about when talking about movies if we forget about dramaturgy and acting. We can talk about it from a personal perspective sometimes.

Why do bring up masking? Is acting=masking for many people with ASD? I think acting, for me, is about being very autistic. Storytelling is very much an ASD thing for me. But why? I guess it has to do with the detail focus and ability to never give up. Some say that many people with ASD are good at making different voices but I don't know.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Sharing my interest can be difficult for me sometimes but that is because many people who want to talk about eg movies have no specific interest in dramaturgy and acting.
People are strange. But we can still find something to talk about when talking about movies if we forget about dramaturgy and acting. We can talk about it from a personal perspective sometimes.

What you are pointing out here is very common. I think most people can relate to a general topic,...but when it comes to the details and specifics, this is where special interests lie,...and most people cannot relate or add to the conversation.

It could be anything,...many of my male friends like cars, in general, and we can talk about cars. I have rebuilt and raced many vehicles over the many years,...but my current special interest lies in electric cars, specifically the Teslas,...I own two. Throw that into the mix, and the conversation becomes quite limited.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I found this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sp...ne-phrase-may-differ-autism-meaning-clear/amp

Yes, prosody is quite important with languages and dialects. The nordic languages,...often similar in language,...quite different in prosody. Asian languages,..prosody can change the meaning of words,...and is critical to understanding the conversation. Even within the English language some words can have quite different meanings depending upon prosody,...humorously, the word "dude",...kind of dated, California "surfer talk", but depending upon the context and prosody, "dude" could mean very different things.

 

[Tom]

We are too varied to really catagorize neatly, so can be anything. But it may be more nurture then nature.

 

[Magna]

Sir Anthony Hopkins is autistic. He's a world renowned actor.

 

[Judge]

Sir Anthony Hopkins is autistic. He's a world renowned actor.

Daryl Hannah as well. And Dan Ackroyd too.

I've seen them interviewed as themselves. They spoke "normally" for the most part, no differently than on the screen, although they've both played a number of intense parts that might have strayed from this from time to time.

Though in this instance, I see a difference between professionals acting, and autistic persons masking.When you're masking, you write and execute whatever script you make, usually in real time. Adjusting to circumstances the best you can. OTOH, acting is a very confined process in comparison. Where you execute a script you didn't write. And that you better be very good before deviating from that script.

However it does bring up an interesting question I've posed before. Wondering whether or not some of us might have made decent actors professionally speaking.

 

[Au Naturel]

bad at body language and prosody? Or is that just a stereotype?
But sometimes I wonder if acting mihht be easier for many of us as we think a lot about body language and prosody. And then many of the actors are very personal on stage and we can be good at that, I guess.
Actors dont really speak like normal people anyway (except for some modern actors, I think).
Some say that piano might be easier for me than using my voice as piano is more intellectual than using the voice (I guess pianist study theory but singer and speakers often don't).

Just a stereotype. Plenty of autistic actors. Anthony Hopkins comes to mind.

I never had the coordination or dexterity to be good with musical instruments.

 

[danjustlovescoffee]

Yes, prosody is quite important with languages and dialects. The nordic languages,...often similar in language,...quite different in prosody. Asian languages,..prosody can change the meaning of words,...and is critical to understanding the conversation. Even within the English language some words can have quite different meanings depending upon prosody,...humorously, the word "dude",...kind of dated, California "surfer talk", but depending upon the context and prosody, "dude" could mean very different things.

With Nordic languages I think the biggest difference is this: Danish people are sometimes really difficult to understand. I listened to their prime minister but man how weird she speaks.

 

[danjustlovescoffee]

Daryl Hannah as well. And Dan Ackroyd too.

I've seen them interviewed as themselves. They spoke "normally" for the most part, no differently than on the screen, although they've both played a number of intense parts that might have strayed from this from time to time.

Though in this instance, I see a difference between professionals acting, and autistic persons masking.When you're masking, you write and execute whatever script you make, usually in real time. Adjusting to circumstances the best you can. OTOH, acting is a very confined process in comparison. Where you execute a script you didn't write. And that you better be very good before deviating from that script.

However it does bring up an interesting question I've posed before. Wondering whether or not some of us might have made decent actors professionally speaking.

The problem I see with social scripting is that the other people don't have the same script. How do you deal with that?

The thing with acting is that it is very different from social sitiations. You don't really behave "normal" on a stage. On the other hand many of us find social groups in which acting "normal" is not important at all.
What do you think?

 

[Neonatal RRT]

The problem I see with social scripting is that the other people don't have the same script. How do you deal with that?

The thing with acting is that it is very different from social sitiations. You don't really behave "normal" on a stage. On the other hand many of us find social groups in which acting "normal" is not important at all.
What do you think?

I've worked within a busy hospital for some 35 years. In that environment, you work with the "United Nations" of people, staff, patients, and their families. At least in my case, social scripting isn't going to work,...you just have to quickly take into account context, perspective, be as engaging, respectful, and polite as you know how. If you run into questions regarding cultural and religious beliefs, etc,...be humble, respectful, and just ask. Most people actually appreciate that you've respected them enough to ask.

Now with respect to film or stage acting,...if you're going to come off as "believable" you still have to "get into character",...and part of that is thinking the same things I do at work. Context, perspective,...and respect. Social situations are not that different.

As suggested in an earlier post,...some people are really good at this,...others not so much. Yes,...I do get mentally exhausted doing this for 12hr shifts, several days a week,...so I do need to take my little "mini breaks" (5-10 min) throughout the day and pace myself.

 

[Judge]

The problem I see with social scripting is that the other people don't have the same script. How do you deal with that?

The thing with acting is that it is very different from social situations. You don't really behave "normal" on a stage. On the other hand many of us find social groups in which acting "normal" is not important at all.
What do you think?

Personally I see literal "social scripting" only applicable for the most superficial of conversations, whether with someone you know well or a total stranger. Not particularly useful on a daily basis.

An autistic person masking their traits and behaviors must always be done "on the fly". Yet another reason why a day of it can leave many of us exhausted. A process far removed from a specific script where it involves improvisation in real time on a perpetual basis. Something most actors do not or cannot contend with.

In the case of an actor on stage, it's just that. Acting- a person deliberately pretending to be someone else for the sake of entertainment as opposed to personal and social survival. Something very different compared to an autistic person trying to nominally and temporarily blend in with neurotypicals.

Bottom line: Some of us can successfully mask our traits and behaviors in whole or in part while others cannot. Personally I doubt many of us can actually "master" masking. That more than likely it works or fails to varying degrees on a regular basis. Hopefully enough so to keep people off your back. Particularly in the workplace.

 

[Au Naturel]

Personally I see literal "social scripting" only applicable for the most superficial of conversations, whether with someone you know well or a total stranger. Not particularly useful on a daily basis.

An autistic person masking their traits and behaviors must always be done "on the fly". Yet another reason why a day of it can leave many of us exhausted. A process far removed from a specific script where it involves improvisation in real time on a perpetual basis. Something most actors do not or cannot contend with.

In the case of an actor on stage, it's just that. Acting- a person deliberately pretending to be someone else for the sake of entertainment as opposed to personal and social survival. Something very different compared to an autistic person trying to nominally and temporarily blend in with neurotypicals.

Bottom line: Some of us can successfully mask our traits and behaviors in whole or in part while others cannot. Personally I doubt many of us can actually "master" masking. That more than likely it works or fails to varying degrees on a regular basis. Hopefully enough so to keep people off your back. Particularly in the workplace.

Everybody masks. I have sometimes thought that it is our failure to mask effortlessly is one of the things that separates those on the spectrum from those who are not.

 

[Judge]

Everybody masks. I have sometimes thought that it is our failure to mask effortlessly is one of the things that separates those on the spectrum from those who are not.

What I believe is most important is the intent in masking. That we aren't prone to do it for personal amusement, but rather for self-preservation. More often than not a painful, but pragmatic choice for many of us.

That we are probably more prone to "consequences" than our neurological counterparts who might have reason to mask their own traits and behaviors for whatever reason. Likely not involving violating unwritten social rules that tend to be either alien or simply unknown to autistic persons.

That without effectively masking ourselves socially, depending on the company we keep we may be exposed to an occasional ass-kicking. Something I suspect does not happen quite so often or easily to any neurological counterparts as it may to those of us on the spectrum.

In essence that socially we aren't on a level playing field in this regard and never have been.

 

[Au Naturel]

What I believe is most important is the intent in masking. That we aren't prone to do it for personal amusement, but rather for self-preservation. More often than not a painful, but pragmatic choice for many of us.

That we are probably more prone to "consequences" than our neurological counterparts who might have reason to mask their own traits and behaviors for whatever reason. Likely not involving violating unwritten social rules that tend to be either alien or simply unknown to autistic persons.

That without effectively masking ourselves socially, depending on the company we keep we may be exposed to an occasional ass-kicking. Something I suspect does not happen quite so often or easily to any neurological counterparts as it may to those of us on the spectrum.

In essence that socially we aren't on a level playing field in this regard and never have been.

Having worked for a couple of decades in the customer support business, masking is mandatory. You have to sound cheerful and upbeat no matter how terrible you feel inside. You have to make the customer feel honored and respected even some of them are narcissistic imbeciles who get off on putting you down. Or argumentative and refusing to cooperate. The alternative is the economic butt kicking of unemployment.

I'd say that in most jobs it is necessary to exhibit enthusiasm and positivity even when your mind is really screaming that it wants to be anywhere in the world but there and you know the strategy/policy you're following is most probably doomed to failure. That polite and smiling waitperson who have been on their feet all day dealing with customers for minimum wage is putting on a mask because without it they get no tips and without tips they cannot make ends meet.

Most people put on a mask when they interview for a job. Or any time they want to impress for whatever reason. Many of the NTs you see at a party are masking because the real them isn't as attractive. Masking as a kind of social Photoshop. It is a necessary survival skill.

Clothing itself is a kind of masking. Provides a socially acceptable image while hiding the truth.

Everybody masks. Most people mask a lot.

 

[Judge]

Having worked for a couple of decades in the customer support business, masking is mandatory. You have to sound cheerful and upbeat no matter how terrible you feel inside. You have to make the customer feel honored and respected even some of them are narcissistic imbeciles who get off on putting you down. Or argumentative and refusing to cooperate. The alternative is the economic butt kicking of unemployment.

I'd say that in most jobs it is necessary to exhibit enthusiasm and positivity even when your mind is really screaming that it wants to be anywhere in the world but there and you know the strategy/policy you're following is most probably doomed to failure. That polite and smiling waitperson who have been on their feet all day dealing with customers for minimum wage is putting on a mask because without it they get no tips and without tips they cannot make ends meet.

Most people put on a mask when they interview for a job. Or any time they want to impress for whatever reason. Many of the NTs you see at a party are masking because the real them isn't as attractive. Masking as a kind of social Photoshop. It is a necessary survival skill.

Clothing itself is a kind of masking. Provides a socially acceptable image while hiding the truth.

Everybody masks. Most people mask a lot.

In terms of business communications and marketing, as a former insurance underwriter I see your point. However that doesn't really address the gist of the original post. It's academic whether one believes everyone masks. It's about autistic people who mask- and the consequences if they cannot or choose not to do so. And the physical and emotional energy it takes to sustain it.

And that's assuming those autistic people who have the capability of masking. I've been here long enough to have heard those who claimed they were incapable of masking. Perhaps those diagnosed beyond ASD level one. That simple observation of NT behavior just wasn't enough for them to understand, let alone mimic.

How Neurotypicals negotiate such a dynamic is for them to ponder. Not us. Whether we all do it or not.

Work is conditional. But when an autistic person leaves the office can they suddenly let down that marketing facade? Not so easily as our neurological counterparts can. For many of us, I suspect it doesn't end until we close our front door to an otherwise empty dwelling. That's how it's always been for me. Always having to keep up my guard, work or play, friend or foe.

IMO it's not quite the same dynamic as you may choose to generalize upon. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[danjustlovescoffee]

What would be an example of masking?
Seriously, people use the word but never really give exanples so that I can understand.

I think the thing is this: even socializing on an internet forum has been difficult for me and I always get frustrated and leave. I mean, internet ain't easier.
But the big question is: what part of socialising are we struggle with?
It might be different from person to person but what is the core issue that makes social situation more difficult (even if it sometimes makes them easier)?

 

[danjustlovescoffee]

Having worked for a couple of decades in the customer support business, masking is mandatory. You have to sound cheerful and upbeat no matter how terrible you feel inside. You have to make the customer feel honored and respected even some of them are narcissistic imbeciles who get off on putting you down. Or argumentative and refusing to cooperate. The alternative is the economic butt kicking of unemployment.

I'd say that in most jobs it is necessary to exhibit enthusiasm and positivity even when your mind is really screaming that it wants to be anywhere in the world but there and you know the strategy/policy you're following is most probably doomed to failure. That polite and smiling waitperson who have been on their feet all day dealing with customers for minimum wage is putting on a mask because without it they get no tips and without tips they cannot make ends meet.

Most people put on a mask when they interview for a job. Or any time they want to impress for whatever reason. Many of the NTs you see at a party are masking because the real them isn't as attractive. Masking as a kind of social Photoshop. It is a necessary survival skill.

Clothing itself is a kind of masking. Provides a socially acceptable image while hiding the truth.

Everybody masks. Most people mask a lot.

Most people mask when being alone with themselves. Complete honesty is rare. Do we want to be ourselves. Well, all we can do is hiding from reality or say yes to it.