Asperger's and PTSD

[Judge]

Every time I forget where my car is parked I go through some momentary stress...the result of having my car stolen in 1982. Sometimes I wonder if that's a form of PTSD...but probably not being confined to just one thing. It still happens on a regular basis, but I always seem to recover quickly having found my car. I want to shake my own head and say this is dumb...but it's sort of like my OCD. Some things are just beyond me.

 

[Andygriffith3351]

Its not ptsd, an anixity disorder maby but ptsd no

 

[Ereth]

Every time I forget where my car is parked I go through some momentary stress...the result of having my car stolen in 1982. Sometimes I wonder if that's a form of PTSD...but probably not being confined to just one thing. It still happens on a regular basis, but I always seem to recover quickly having found my car. I want to shake my own head and say this is dumb...but it's sort of like my OCD. Some things are just beyond me.

Yeah . . . momentary stress =/= PTSD. You might fear your car has been stolen again, which is certainly a stressful thing to think, but this isn't PTSD.

 

[Sportster]

Thank you. I am clinical social worker. So I actually have studied what defines each thing. Sometimes its a matter of perspective. So thank you.

I've read your response several times and am amazed. What you shared is quite descriptive of me. Before I reached 15 years of age, I experienced things that no child should experience. To this day there are "things" that I cannot discuss with even my closest friends. As an adult, I experienced things that added to the previous issues as a child. For many years, I was on a self-destructive path. In fact, a friend once said, "Man, you must have a death wish." I simply thought I was being "bold and adventurous," but I was unconsciously trying to kill myself. A couple times I made a blatant suicide attempt. They didn't specify "Complex PTSD," but then that was many years ago. What you said, " . . . is found among individuals who have been exposed to prolonged traumatic circumstances, especially during childhood . . ." describes my situation to a tee!!!

 

[Judge]

[

Yeah . . . momentary stress =/= PTSD. You might fear your car has been stolen again, which is certainly a stressful thing to think, but this isn't PTSD.

So it's more a matter of the severity of symptoms. The symptoms always go away when I realize my car is still there.

It's just that what bothers me is that my initial reaction of reliving that stress hasn't gone away after 32 years. No matter, that's the least of my issues to be honest. Just curious though, in this particular instance. Some "baggage" is heavier than others, but unfortunately over time it all starts to add up.

 

[Andygriffith3351]

Well I was pulled from my home when I was 6 then spent 4 years in the foster care system I was diagnosed with complex ptsd last year. I have found that the most affective way to deal with it is to do 2 things for me, 1 go shooting with my foster dad and 2 practice krav maga

 

[Sportster]

Well I was pulled from my home when I was 6 then spent 4 years in the foster care system I was diagnosed with complex ptsd last year. I have found that the most affective way to deal with it is to do 2 things for me, 1 go shooting with my foster dad and 2 practice krav maga

Sounds like two excellent activities!!! Kung Fu cat would approve:

 

[Andygriffith3351]

Love the picture

 

[Ereth]

So it's more a matter of the severity of symptoms. The symptoms always go away when I realize my car is still there.

That's part of it, Judge, but ultimately the kind of trauma that causes PTSD is related to fearing for one's own physical safety. There's no doubt you lost a feeling of security when your car was stolen, but honestly, if you really had PTSD (say, from being run over by one), even thinking about cars in general might cause you to go into a state of physical shock. Fortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case here.

 

[Arashi222]

That's part of it, Judge, but ultimately the kind of trauma that causes PTSD is related to fearing for one's own physical safety. There's no doubt you lost a feeling of security when your car was stolen, but honestly, if you really had PTSD (say, from being run over by one), even thinking about cars in general might cause you to go into a state of physical shock. Fortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Actually Ereth depending on the severity of her symptoms it could be PTSD now I don't believe this is case I think its anxiety. But it doesn't have to be fear for your own safety it could other people's safety or emotional safety. If somethign is traumatic it can lead to PTSD regardless of physical safety or not. Does the person have Flashbacks, does the person have nightmares, do they have waking nightmares, do they have anxiety aroudn the incident do they constantly relive the trauma.

 

[Ereth]

Actually Ereth depending on the severity of her symptoms it could be PTSD now I don't believe this is case I think its anxiety. But it doesn't have to be fear for your own safety it could other people's safety or emotional safety. If somethign is traumatic it can lead to PTSD regardless of physical safety or not. Does the person have Flashbacks, does the person have nightmares, do they have waking nightmares, do they have anxiety aroudn the incident do they constantly relive the trauma.

I realize that, and the link I provided states that someone doesn't have to be the primary victim of a horrible trauma to develop PTSD as a result. Witnessing it is enough.

 

[I am that which I am]

I had a very rough childhood (parental abuse and bullying at school and by teachers) and seem to remember a few of those instances quite clearly, almost like PTSD. Yes there were some instances where my parents (mainly) would beat me so badly I could not stand anymore and was afraid for my life and did not know how to escape. Those are the ones I remember most clearly and have described these in a story to try to accept and get over them. Yes I would go in shock in remembering one in particular and would have to snap myself out of it, try to remain conscious of what was happening, and retrain myself to think of it differently. Then there are some "milder" memories of traumatic experiences. I always thought it was because I have an exceptionally good memory so I would remember the greatest details (until I took psych.) Sometimes these memories seem to come back for no reason. So I seem to have a (yet to be named) milder traumatic disorder and PTSD. This has gone down gradually over the years I worked on it. This is something i was not diagnosed with officially and have worked on my own to get over.

The way the brain works is that stressful events and trauma (especially, but still amongst other things) will be engraved in memory, sometimes to the detriment of someone's psychological health. I guess for those aspies that are "gifted" with an excellent memory it is worse and encompasses far more than it would for NTs, at least on the trauma side and could be easier to engrave to form PTSD and then the anxiety and distress may be greater in AS. But research would need to be done to conclude that, it would still be interesting to look at. It is true that also being an aspie, we are clearly different and bullied for it, which may increase the incidence of traumatic experiences. My brain also sometimes makes events more traumatic. Especially when I do something embarrassing I will remember it for a while even if no one ever mentions it or saw me. I agree however that perhaps this thread should be retitled AS and the formation of psychological trauma.

Little note on ketamine, really cool that someone mentioned it but interestingly in high levels in can lead to pseudo-(because it was induced)-psychotic symptoms.

 

[Sportster]

I had a very rough childhood (parental abuse and bullying at school and by teachers) and seem to remember a few of those instances quite clearly, almost like PTSD. Yes there were some instances where my parents (mainly) would beat me so badly I could not stand anymore and was afraid for my life and did not know how to escape. Those are the ones I remember most clearly and have described these in a story to try to accept and get over them. Yes I would go in shock in remembering one in particular and would have to snap myself out of it, try to remain conscious of what was happening, and retrain myself to think of it differently. Then there are some "milder" memories of traumatic experiences. I always thought it was because I have an exceptionally good memory so I would remember the greatest details (until I took psych.) Sometimes these memories seem to come back for no reason. So I seem to have a (yet to be named) milder traumatic disorder and PTSD. This has gone down gradually over the years I worked on it. This is something i was not diagnosed with officially and have worked on my own to get over.

The way the brain works is that stressful events and trauma (especially, but still amongst other things) will be engraved in memory, sometimes to the detriment of someone's psychological health. I guess for those aspies that are "gifted" with an excellent memory it is worse and encompasses far more than it would for NTs, at least on the trauma side and could be easier to engrave to form PTSD and then the anxiety and distress may be greater in AS. But research would need to be done to conclude that, it would still be interesting to look at. It is true that also being an aspie, we are clearly different and bullied for it, which may increase the incidence of traumatic experiences. My brain also sometimes makes events more traumatic. Especially when I do something embarrassing I will remember it for a while even if no one ever mentions it or saw me. I agree however that perhaps this thread should be retitled AS and the formation of psychological trauma.

Little note on ketamine, really cool that someone mentioned it but interestingly in high levels in can lead to pseudo-(because it was induced)-psychotic symptoms.

Thanks for sharing. I'm a little over twice your age, but it sounds like we've both traveled down the same rough road. I don't think you ever "get over them." I've tried for fifty plus years. Aspies tend to have incredible memories, but those of us living with PTSD seem to have more acute memories. I can't explain it, but I know what you're saying. I can remember each trauma in vivid detail like it was yesterday. The challenge is not "reliving" the trauma when the particular memory surfaces.

 

[Arashi222]

Actually I wanted to add a bit about the difference between PTSD and Acute Stress Disorder. Acute Stress disorder is defined as:
Acute stress disorder (ASD) is an anxiety disorder that can develop immediately following a traumatic event. To be diagnosed with ASD, a person must meet certain requirements:

1) A person must have experienced a traumatic event where both of the following occurred:

• The person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event where there was the threat of or actual death, serious injury, or threat to the person's or another person's physical well-being.
• The person experienced strong feelings of fear, helplessness, or horror.

2) The person experiences at least three of the following dissociative symptoms during or after the traumatic event: Feeling numb or detached or having difficulties experiencing emotions, Feeling dazed or not entirely being aware of surroundings, derealization, or feeling as though people, places, and things are not real, Depersonalization, or feeling separated and detached from oneself,Dissociative amnesia, or being unable to recall important parts of the traumatic event
3) The person has at least one re-experiencing symptom, such as having frequent thoughts, memories, or dreams about the event.
4) The person attempts to avoid people, places, or things that remind him or her about the event.
5) The person has hyperarousal symptoms, such as feeling constantly on guard or jumpy, having difficulties sleeping, problems with concentration, or irritability.
6) The symptoms described above have a great negative impact on the life of the person experiencing them, interfering with work or relationships.
7)The symptoms last for at least 2 days and at most 4 weeks. The symptoms also occur within 4 weeks of experiencing the traumatic event.
8) the symptoms are not due to an illness or other medical condition, medication being taken, or alcohol/drug use.

The key point here in this disorder is that it does not last your whole life. Most people will have this diagnosis at the beginning of a traumatic event its what happens after the 4week mark that makes it more likely to turn into PTSD.

 

[I am that which I am]

Thanks for sharing. I'm a little over twice your age, but it sounds like we've both traveled down the same rough road. I don't think you ever "get over them." I've tried for fifty plus years. Aspies tend to have incredible memories, but those of us living with PTSD seem to have more acute memories. I can't explain it, but I know what you're saying. I can remember each trauma in vivid detail like it was yesterday. The challenge is not "reliving" the trauma when the particular memory surfaces.

Hello,
No I don't think you ever get over them entirely, but eventually I noted that they come back less frequently and are not as painful. What I did was likely a form of CBT in combination with exposure to the bad memory while gradually staying more and more calm and peaceful. Not denying the emotions that I felt but realizing that it was part of the past and that I have no reason to fear what happened or relive it with all of the upsetting emotions. Since I tried to stay calm and not be swayed to extreme anxiety, terror, helplessness, pain, etc. I was likely able to reduce my physiological arousal and reduce the impact that it had on me. Gradually I rewrote at least my response to the memory to something that sees it more for what it is rather than have an extremely aversive reaction to it. It still hurts and it is still there, but at least I do not exaggerate and relive it to the nth degree anymore. This is not easy and would often require the help of a professional; it is easy to go off the deep end. I am not entirely sure how I was able to do it by myself, but I did.

 

[gina rex]

I think I can help clarify the confusion: The distinction that PTSD is the result only of PHYSICAL HARM really makes no physiological sense. There is only one PATHWAY in the brain that processes "emotional" and "physical" pain. They are the same. The damage from emotional trauma is just as real as that caused by physical trauma. There is no difference.

 

[Ereth]

For the record, I was not dismissing emotional harm as being any less real than physical harm, or the threat of harm. I am not an expert on this subject either. I don't know anything about which pathways in the brain mean what, but I know from talking to friends who have it that it takes a truly traumatic experience to cause PTSD, which is why it is associated with physical harm or the threat of physical harm. There's no doubt in my mind that psychological damage is harmful (and I've experienced the effects of it personally), but from what I understand, PTSD manifests in a very specific way that just isn't the same as other forms of trauma.

For more information:

NAMI | Causes of PTSD

 

[Arashi222]

For the record, I was not dismissing emotional harm as being any less real than physical harm, or the threat of harm. I am not an expert on this subject either. I don't know anything about which pathways in the brain mean what, but I know from talking to friends who have it that it takes a truly traumatic experience to cause PTSD, which is why it is associated with physical harm or the threat of physical harm. There's no doubt in my mind that psychological damage is harmful (and I've experienced the effects of it personally), but from what I understand, PTSD manifests in a very specific way that just isn't the same as other forms of trauma.

For more information:

NAMI | Causes of PTSD

Again emotional trauma is very real as you have said but what I am seeing is that regardless this can lead to PTSD if the person feels that they are in danger or that others are in danger. It does not have to be physical it can be emotional as long as the person feels violated to a horrific degree.

Also here is a scientific journal backing this up. http://folk.uib.no//pspsm/documents/Bullying-PTSD-2004-Matthiesen-Einarsen.pdf

 

[Warwick C]

May I ask you Ereth what is your experience of PTSD? or is it theoretical. Practical always out weighs theoretical.

 

[Ereth]

If you reread my last post, I said PTSD is also associated with the threat of physical harm. I didn't elaborate, and perhaps I should have, but I'm not disagreeing with you, Arashi. The perception that someone is about to be harmed would likely fall into that category.

May I ask you Ereth what is your experience of PTSD? or is it theoretical. Practical always out weighs theoretical.

Reread my first post in the thread if you're asking why I'm posting here. I may not suffer from PTSD myself or have studied it in any official capacity, but I assure you I don't have a PhD from Wikipedia University. I'm extremely close to several people with PTSD, and I talk to one of them every day. I have had long conversations with them about the causes of their trauma, their recurring symptoms, and what they have or haven't done to seek treatment. I don't claim to be an absolute authority, mind you. But I don't think my posts should be dismissed because I'm not a doctor or a PTSD sufferer. They're coming from someone with a genuine desire to understand the subject and to promote understanding of it. Contrary to what seems to be popular opinion, I'm not just pulling these things from my rear end.