Aspergers and Religion

[gregmcph]

1. I grew up in a very Catholic household.
...
At about age 16 y.o. I attended a religious retreat and imbued with all the 'pre-game' hype I was determined to believe in God (because I wanted to be like everybody else). I discovered I was unable to force myself to adopt a belief in something that I had no evidence to support and that was the last time I gave it much attention.

Similar story to me.
What killed my religion was religious fellow students. Unhappily rumbled along as a passive Catholic until Christian Fellowship friends started to go to Charismatic meetings, tell me stories of Speaking in Tongues. It freaked me out. It all sounded scary and creepy. Not a Sign of God, but a form of madness.

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

I read how all of you Aspies have read the Bible and I (NT girl) totally believe in God and would like to read the Bible, but I've only read small parts. I have good intentions (my Bible is out right now with a book about Revelations written by Jack Van Impe to help me make sense of things), but no matter what I do I always find something else I'd rather be doing - like reading a murder mystery, knitting, exercising and even LAUNDRY. Any ideas of how I can get myself to buckle down and enjoy reading the Bible instead of thinking of it like a homework assignment? (I hate parables.)

Well, the Hebrew Scriptures have founding myths, fratricide, multiple murders, adultery, frustrated lust, requited lust, betrayal, war and peace, cursing psalms, a whore who saves a city, a queen thrown from a tower, several discussions of the importance of knowing your True Name, hallucinogenic visions, steampunk, several beheadings, avant-garde definitions of wisdom and pessimism...and the Christian Scriptures have four eyewitness testimonies that agree about as well as any four eyewitness accounts at a crime scene.

The first time I read Scripture (I was a child), I read it as a novel. As an aspie, I read it as what if this were true as written? and couldn't believe it, until I learned what myths were and why fiction was useful. As a theological student, I read it as a metaphor and as cultural anthropology.

But it was more fun reading it as fiction, not the least of which was I knew more of it than many churchgoers and Bible-quoters.

 

[AnnKoontz]

I have a question for you all! Since I have known only a handful of lovely ASD people, I am curious as to how ASD people deal with the issue of religion (Christianity or not; I am a Christian UMC pastor, but I'm not trying to evangelize here, simply interested since it's one of my biggest interests, obviously!). Did you grow up in a religious household? What role does religion play in your life? Do you regularly participate in religious life, and do you do so in community with other people or in a more solitary fashion? Have you been accepted by people of your faith, or largely rejected, or do they just find you "querky"? What do you think of NTs and religion versus ASDs and religion? Do you have any unconventional views--like maybe Jesus was an Aspie?! Any insights, ideas, observations, experiences or opinions are greatly appreciated!!!!

I was raised in a "Christian" household but we only went to church once in a while. Although I am somewhat spiritual I'm not religious. Religious people see me as weird just like everyone else.

 

[weiss]

I have a question for you all! Since I have known only a handful of lovely ASD people, I am curious as to how ASD people deal with the issue of religion (Christianity or not; I am a Christian UMC pastor, but I'm not trying to evangelize here, simply interested since it's one of my biggest interests, obviously!). Did you grow up in a religious household? What role does religion play in your life? Do you regularly participate in religious life, and do you do so in community with other people or in a more solitary fashion? Have you been accepted by people of your faith, or largely rejected, or do they just find you "querky"? What do you think of NTs and religion versus ASDs and religion? Do you have any unconventional views--like maybe Jesus was an Aspie?! Any insights, ideas, observations, experiences or opinions are greatly appreciated!!!!

1. My family went off and on to a few different Christian churches. Sorry, I don't remember denominations. It wasn't anything I was interested in.
2. None, really.
3. I took up sitting zazen years ago. At first I did it with others, but I'm a lot more comfortable doing it alone. Though, it isn't really religion so much as it is just sitting on the floor.
4. I don't know how to answer that.
5. Well, NT's sure are eager to tell people about their religion. Almost as excited as they are to talk about sports, money, and sex. Most of the ASD people (actual or suspected) I've known are only excited to talk about tech, science, pop culture, and history - maybe religion tangential to those things.
6. I don't think I do. Never met him, but he sounds very NT to me.

 

[lostinspace]

I discovered I was unable to force myself to adopt a belief in something that I had no evidence to support and that was the last time I gave it much attention.

That describes very well what my conclusion was, but in my case I asked God to communicate with me and nothing happened.

Let me put it this way:

If there is anybody out there who can understand what I am saying, and is not a human, and wants me to believe in you, please let me know you exist.

I have not gotten a reply to that yet.

 

[dudeman]

It depends on what you mean by communication. When I was in in high school, the one and only time I tried drugs, I got pulled for a random drug test a few days later. I was, of course, scared shitless, but amazingly, it came back clean. I took that as Gaia telling me "you get one for free but don't do it again". And I never have.

 

[Ericho]

I remember the creator of "South Park", Trey Parker, saying, "Of all the ridiculous religious stories, which are all truly wonderfully ridiculous, by far, the weirdest one I've heard is, 'Yeah, there's this big universe and it's expanding and collapsing on itself and we're all here just cause, just cause'. That, to me, is the most ludicrous explanation ever".

That's probably the best way I can sum it up, or you can listen to that speech at the end of the Mormon epsiode.

If nothing else, I do it out of respect. My mother is extremely religious and is the most wonderful mother I could literally ask for.

 

[113]

Did you grow up in a religious household?

Not really, but my parents tried to expose me to different religions: Christianity, Judaism, Zen Buddhism, Tibetan Buddhism, etc.

What role does religion play in your life?

I was curious about religion at one point. I traveled to the Holy Land and lived there for a while while studying Hebrew. It was there, when I was traveling to holy sites and reading the Bible starting at the beginning, that I became a nonbeliever.

I later began to read many books on religion and atheism, and became a nonbeliever in all forms of the supernatural.

I keep an open mind to everything, but my research has led me to this conclusion for the moment.

Do you regularly participate in religious life, and do you do so in community with other people or in a more solitary fashion?

I have been to a few churches and synagogues. They were quite fundamentalist, and I found the experiences uncomfortable. One mega church put on a show on the scale of a rock concert. One synagogue was extremely conservative, where men and women had to be separated by a curtain. Since I went with two women, I became separated from my guides, which made navigating the situation more difficult for me.

Have you been accepted by people of your faith, or largely rejected, or do they just find you "querky"?

I have difficulty functioning in group settings, and I suspect that everyone finds me quirky.

What do you think of NTs and religion versus ASDs and religion?

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this study yet.

"Persons with autistic spectrum disorder were much more likely than those in our neurotypical comparison group to identify as atheist or agnostic, and, if religious, were more likely to construct their own religious belief system. Nonbelief was also higher in those who were attracted to systemizing activities, as measured by the Systemizing Quotient."​

I've noticed that even generally-fundamentalist Aspies deviate from standard beliefs in some areas.

Do you have any unconventional views--like maybe Jesus was an Aspie?!

I suspect that at least some of the people who wrote the Bible were Aspies. There are many arbitrary rules, such as: you cannot mix linen with wool in your clothes (Deuteronomy 22:11). No specific reason is given. You have to do that because that's just the way it's done. I have mild OCD tendencies, so I feel like I understand this kind of thinking.

 

[Datura]

I am vary much an atheist. I find it to be a rather extraordinary claim that a being (or beings) exist who were capable of creating the universe. Not impossible, but extraordinary. In order to give such a claim credence there would have to be substantial affirmative evidence. As of yet such evidence has not been forthcoming, and therefore I refuse to believe in gods any more than I believe in ferries or beings from parallel dimensions.

I also think that certain notions of god lack internal consistency. I was once handed a book in a hospital emergency called The Fires of Hell. It was in Islamic book, the entire premise of which is that if you do not believe in Allah then you are going to hell. In one chapter they explained that Allah's presence my not be obvious but this is merely to test your faith. What kind of omnipotent being would first require that you believe and worship him, on pain of eternal torment, and then deliberately obfuscate his own existence? A sadistic one, I would think.

 

[guitarguy]

Did you grow up in a religious household? YES! although I don't go to church. I'd feel weird around all those people and when it comes time to sing...
What role does religion play in your life? alot...I'm still a virgin! go me. I'am also a young earth creationist ( Its a Christian belief for those that don't know)
Do you regularly participate in religious life, and do you do so in community with other people or in a more solitary fashion? solitude, try to do the best I can, but fall short.
Have you been accepted by people of your faith, or largely rejected, or do they just find you "querky"? I found a couple on the internet that were young earth creationists, got along fine. I would not really know because I don't go to church. But during my goth phase...
What do you think of NTs and religion versus ASDs and religion? nothing in particular
Do you have any unconventional views--like maybe Jesus was an Aspie?! No not really, but it is kinda unconventional that I believe in Genesis sadly.

 

[lostinspace]

It depends on what you mean by communication.

I guess the best thing for me to do is describe my experience.

I was born into a Charismatic Christian family. Very religious, very church going (several times a week), very deep into it. Parents were missionaries. My situation was very much like Dan Barker, a former pastor who wrote "Losing faith in faith", and is now a co-president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

A very important part of our faith is the idea that God has a detailed plan for your life and wants you to follow it. I wanted to know what the plan was. I was in high school (a Christian one, of course), what was I going to do when I graduated, and where did I want to live? I had absolutely no idea. Let's see now, there are 50 states, which one? Or, should it even be in the U.S.? Big city or small town? What type of occupation? All kinds of choices, what did God want for me? I decided to find out and go with whatever it was.

I prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed, and I still had no idea what God wanted for me. Talked to my parents, school counselors, pastors, other Christians, still had no idea. Why wasn't God telling me? The only thing I could think of was that God only talked to adults.

My 18th birthday came, I was out of high school, now what? I still had absolutely no idea. Come on God, I am an adult now, when are you going to tell me what the plan is? I'll do it, but I need to know what it is!

I stumbled around lost for six years. Nothing worked out for me. I really needed to hear from God. Again, I prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed, went to pastors, other spiritual leaders, other Christians, etc, still had absolutely no idea of what I wanted to do with my life. I was completely, totally, utterly LOST. I wanted to hear from God real bad.

Why wasn't God telling me what the plan was? I just couldn't figure it out. Then I thought, exactly how would God do this? An audible voice? Crazy people hear voices. An audible voice that other people could hear? Maybe this kind of thing needs to be private. I had to admit, I never did hear God talking to other people, but people claimed to hear from God all the time, and they said that when it happened, there was no doubt it was Him.

Then it hit me, I'll ask God to write me a message on a piece of paper! I'll be all alone at the time, the pen will move without any human contact, and I will have the paper as proof that It was not my imagination. Perfect!

At a time when I was all alone I prayed for God to write me a message on a piece of paper. The pen just sat there, not moving. I was devastated. I did not know what to do.

I read the Bible very carefully to see how it was that God did talk to people (examples include Elijah and the prophets of Baal, and the Doubting Thomas), and I did not see anything wrong with what I was doing. I then decided to look at the history of the Christian church, and saw how shaky it is. Other religions were just as bad. Finally I came to the conclusion that there was no reason to believe in a god of any kind at all.

The sad part is that I still have no idea of what I want to do with my life.

 

[AsheSkyler]

My situation was very much like Dan Barker, a former pastor who wrote "Losing faith in faith", and is now a co-president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

I hear the same thing happened to Mother Theresa. After seeing all that stuff in her missionary work, she lost her faith. It didn't make sense there was a benevolent being if that stuff happened. But she carried on with the image of being a holy woman because she knew so many people drew strength from her. In it's own weird way, I think that makes her even more of a saint because that shows to what extreme she dedicated her life to helping people. Isn't that kind of what most religions boil down to anyway? How much good you can do for others? Even my pet favorite of Taoism and all its neutrality, it really pushes for being kind and respectful to others. I haven't the slightest clue what I am to specifically do with my life either. Neither of my jobs are what I imagined doing with my life and I certainly don't feel called to either. But I do have an opportunity to help people and make them happy. So that's what I do until I find whatever goal I'm supposed to aim for. It's not a bad way to pass the time at any rate.

Anywho, I wish you luck and clarity. Keep searching, but don't stress yourself out too badly.

 

[BIMOG]

I was born into a Catholic family. I was baptised, made communion etc. and attended Catholic schools. By the time I'd reached the age of eleven I'd read The Bible and decided that both it and organised religions in general made no logical sense to me. After that, although I continued to attend Catholic school, I refused to take part in any more church services and declined to make my Confirmation because I dislike hypocrisy and considered that it would be disrespectful to the people who did believe. Religion plays no part in my life at all.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I hear the same thing happened to Mother Theresa. After seeing all that stuff in her missionary work, she lost her faith. It didn't make sense there was a benevolent being if that stuff happened.

I think that whoever told you that, misunderstood. She entered into a long period of spiritual darkness in which she didn't feel God's presence-and it was very painful to her-but she still believed in Him. Seeing suffering is not such a blow to faith if one believes in the possibility of heaven for those who are currently suffering.
Although Wilkepedia's generally not trustworthy, their page on this is pretty good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Night_of_the_Soul

 

[AsheSkyler]

I think that whoever told you that, misunderstood. She entered into a long period of spiritual darkness in which she didn't feel God's presence-and it was very painful to her-but she still believed in Him. Seeing suffering is not such a blow to faith if one believes in the possibility of heaven for those who are currently suffering.
Although Wilkepedia's generally not trustworthy, their page on this is pretty good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Night_of_the_Soul

Very likely. I take everything with a grain of salt. It's reassuring to hear she didn't lose her faith. Either way she's still a great example of a saint.

 

[Jacoby]

I was christened/baptized/whatever but I was never raised with much religion in my life. My parents were nominally Wisconsin Evangelical Lutherans(WELS) which is at the extreme fundamentalist end of Lutheranism(lets just say we don't like the RomanCatholic Church), I was taught some things about the faith early on in my life but most I learned on my own out of my own interest. I can probably count how many times I've been in a church in much life other than funerals and weddings on one hand.

As for my own personal beliefs, I dunno. I'd identify as agnostic as I think it is illogical to believe something concrete either way that is impossible to know. I think I'm probably more of a spiritual person probably, it's not something I've really cultivated and I don't have really any interest in organized religion tho. I always figured if God was real and he wanted me to believe in something that he would tap me on the shoulder and show me, I guess it wouldn't be faith then.

 

[metalminx24]

Piffle

 

[DC1346]

I am a Christian UMC pastor, but I'm not trying to evangelize here, simply interested since it's one of my biggest interests, obviously!).

Hi Pastor! I used to be UMC ... but now I'm not. I haven't decided whether I'm agnostic or atheist yet ... but I'm no longer UMC ... more on that later.

Did you grow up in a religious household?

No. I was raised as an atheist. My paternal grandparents were converted by Christian missionaries in China and when they emigrated to the U.S. after the Chinese Exclusion Act was finally repealed in '43, they wound up becoming Methodists because the First Chinese United Methodist Church of Oakland, California offered (and still offers) bilingual services in Cantonese and English.

They owned a small business and starting at 10 years of age, my father had to do all of the family housework in addition to preparing the evening meal. After the meal, he'd clean up the kitchen and make business deliveries and then and only then could he do his homework.

My grandparents worked 6.5 days per week and took a half day off to go to Church. After Church, they'd stay for the Church potluck, after which they'd go home to work in the family business.

My father had to grow up at much too young an age. He never really got to experience life as a child and in time he grew to resent the Church.

The final straw for him came when he attended a United Methodist Church on Christmas Day in Ann Arbor. He was a medical student at U of M and lacking the funds to go home for the Christmas break, he went to Church instead.

One member of the Church congregation told him that "chinks" belong in the back pews or better yet at another church entirely ... so my father left the church and never returned.

What role does religion play in your life?

I try to talk to God via prayer ... but I don't think he listens to me. I feel as though I'm leaving voice mail that's never returned and really ... as an aspie, I'm very literal minded, so for me my problem with religion is that I've never been able to make that final spiritual leap of faith in which I accept Jesus Christ as the son of God who died for the forgiveness of human sins.

I've talked to several UMC pastors before as well as Presbyterians and it always seems to boil down to that leap of faith which I simply cannot commit to.

Do you regularly participate in religious life, and do you do so in community with other people or in a more solitary fashion?

I spent 5 years in southern Arizona and attended a United Methodist Church but never joined as a member. At one time I led an adult Bible study. I was active in the Church's volunteer food bank. I was also the church's videographer ... and then the pastor went and ruined everything. While having dinner with me at my place, he criticized some of my friends who were LDS. He told me that they only reason they wanted to be friends with me was because they wanted to convert me. He accused them of being deceitful and the thing is, he didn't know any of my friends. He was making an inappropriate generalization.

Are there members of the LDS who will befriend you just to convert you? Of course. The same can be said of nearly any religion. Are ALL members of the LDS intent upon converting others? Of course NOT.

I later learned that one of this pastor's ancestors had been one of the original apostles in the LDS. I wonder what happened and why the pastor's family broke from their Mormon roots.

In any event, after the pastor criticized my friends and gave me a choice of being UMC or being with my Mormon friends, I chose to remain with my friends WHO DID NOT TRY TO CONVERT ME.

Years later, after moving to Nevada, I tried attending services at the UMC in Henderson. One thing I have always liked about the UMC is the emphasis on ministries and I wanted to help out as a community service volunteer ... but no one would ever return my emails or voice mail messages and eventually I stopped going.

I now live in a rural community in Nevada. I tried reaching out to a local UMC when I moved out here. I wrote to them via email ... but as with the church in Henderson, no one ever responded.

Have you been accepted by people of your faith, or largely rejected, or do they just find you "querky"?

One thing I've noticed about the last two churches I've attended ... no one ever says hello to me when I walk through those doors. I might as well be invisible.

The church in southern Arizona spent several thousand dollars to bring in a hospitality coach. I think this was a waste of money. How hard is for a member of the congregation to see a stranger and to welcome that person to Church?

I know that UMC membership is dying. The congregation is aging. I think there are several reasons for this starting with the fact that long time members of the UMC have their social cliques which often do not include being more welcoming of strangers. The UMC hymn book is also really outdated. Some of those 19th century hymns sound like funeral dirges and are quite offsetting to younger people ... but I think the main thing is attitude.

The congregation is either welcoming or it's not and the last two churches I attended were not. The one in southern Arizona was trying to address this issue but I don't know if they were ever successful.

What do you think of NTs and religion versus ASDs and religion? Do you have any unconventional views--like maybe Jesus was an Aspie?!

Why would I think that Jesus was an aspie?

The problem with aspies is that many of us are literal minded and so we (or at least I) have been unable to make that leap of faith that so many NTs have made.

I like the morality of Protestant churches ... but I can't make that leap of faith. I have also been disillusioned by the human failings of pastors, the fact that the last two churches I have attended ignored me while also not responding to voice mail or email, and the general sense that I was not part of the church community.

I sometimes feel like the UMC is a bit like a freemason group ... the sort where you have to repeatedly ask to belong before you are actually invited in.

I have given up asking to belong.

Any insights, ideas, observations, experiences or opinions are greatly appreciated!!!!

The UMC needs to make a more concerted effort to greet people and to foster a sense of community otherwise more churches will be lost as the American congregations age and die out. One thing I liked about the Oakland Chinese Methodist Church were their potlucks. A weekly potluck is a great way to break the ice. What better way to get to know other people than to break bread with them?

Game nights would be something else the Church could offer. Movie nights with a large projector could be fun.

SOMEONE at each church needs to actually respond to voice mails or emails because not returning messages is simply not very welcoming. Being told that, "No ... we didn't post the congregational assistance program on the church bulletin board because the people who run this have been doing this for ten years ... well really ... how is that at all welcoming?

The hymn book also needs to be updated because songs like, "Glory, Glory, Glory," though rich in tradition, are simply not appealing to the younger crowd.

 

[Myway]

I have a question for you all! Since I have known only a handful of lovely ASD people, I am curious as to how ASD people deal with the issue of religion (Christianity or not; I am a Christian UMC pastor, but I'm not trying to evangelize here, simply interested since it's one of my biggest interests, obviously!). Did you grow up in a religious household? What role does religion play in your life? Do you regularly participate in religious life, and do you do so in community with other people or in a more solitary fashion? Have you been accepted by people of your faith, or largely rejected, or do they just find you "querky"? What do you think of NTs and religion versus ASDs and religion? Do you have any unconventional views--like maybe Jesus was an Aspie?! Any insights, ideas, observations, experiences or opinions are greatly appreciated!!!!

Yes. I grew up in a religious household. For me religion is ok. It plays a minor part in my life. I would say that I participate more in the community and one on one better. I sometimes do it on my own in my room. People of my faith have largely accepted me for who I am. Nothing too bad. I don't know about NTs and religion. I can only speak for myself. I don't think Jesus was an Aspie. But sometimes I do believe that. Hope this helped.

 

[AsheSkyler]

The hymn book also needs to be updated because songs like, "Glory, Glory, Glory," though rich in tradition, are simply not appealing to the younger crowd.

Probably cause you run out of air on a lot of them.
I grew up on the "red book". Apparently a bit of a relic. Although an interesting study in the 1900s-1950s style of religious song writing. Some of the more contemporary congregations use newer songs. I'm not used to them though so they leave me scratching my head.

I like the morality of Protestant churches ... but I can't make that leap of faith. I have also been disillusioned by the human failings of pastors, the fact that the last two churches I have attended ignored me while also not responding to voice mail or email, and the general sense that I was not part of the church community.

I wish you could have met my old pastor. I wish everybody could have met him! He was kind and gentle, inviting rather than dogmatic converting, not judgmental, and everything you'd expect a person of strong faith to be whether Christian, Buddhist, or something else. His successor, eh, not so much. We all knew nobody could really fill our old pastor's shoes, but that little weasel sank pretty low by even non-religious standards. A good example of the human failings of people who claim to be a man of God!